Your right to Photograph (Followup)

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Annika1980, Nov 1, 2005.

  1. Annika1980

    Annika1980 Guest

    Annika1980, Nov 1, 2005
    #1
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  2. Too many blood suckers in the USA culture: bureaucrats, lawyers,
    politicians, judges, and so on. Sure, we need these folks but they have
    sprawled in their numbers and influence to become too-often
    counter-productive. They contribute nothing to wealth creation or artistic
    growth or scientific growth but do indeed drag down innovative folks who
    should not be continually punished by them. A society that stifles
    innovation and creativity with trivial arrests and fines and lawsuits is in
    deep trouble as it has a questionable future.
     
    Charles Schuler, Nov 1, 2005
    #2
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  3. Annika1980

    Paul Heslop Guest

    Makes me wonder what the hell pictures the police were supposed to
    have seen that made them arrest him in the first place. Maybe they're
    turned on by balloons?
     
    Paul Heslop, Nov 1, 2005
    #3
  4. Annika1980

    PTravel Guest

    How in the world do you turn this around and make it the fault of lawyers
    and judges? A stupid law was enacted in response to parental pressure to
    make the world safe for the kiddies, coupled with the now-fashionable right
    wing belief that morality should be legislated. An overbearing policeman,
    no doubt acting on the same misguided impulse, made a ludicrous arrest.

    The only lawyer in the scenario was the prosecutor who apologized for the
    actions of the police and immediately dismissed the charges.
     
    PTravel, Nov 1, 2005
    #4
  5. Annika1980

    CeeBee Guest

    <quote>
    "A lot of the photographs frankly are crowd scenes, some of them are
    artistic photographs. There's a little series of photographs of a table and
    a balloon," said Kurt Stallings, Tarrant County Prosecutor."
    </quote>


    The Texas law enforcement sure has a simple way to achieve "sexual
    gratification".
    Let's help them a bit in their quest to a quick orgasm:

    kinky:
    http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1435332.html

    SM:
    http://www.ronjun-eshop.com/images/DF-411s.jpg

    vintage porn (1985):
    http://www.atwillett.com/marathon_photos/new_york_marathon-wide.jpg
     
    CeeBee, Nov 1, 2005
    #5
  6. & Then again according to a recent Dateline News show you have scads
    of repeat offenders (drunks, aggressive dangerous idiots-cell phone
    talkers-religious nuts) driving the roads on revoked drivers licenses,
    so the blood sucker aren't even doing what we need them for.
     
    Little Green Eyed Dragon, Nov 1, 2005
    #6
  7. All of the above is simple minded emotionalism getting in the
    way of sound logical thinking (which is exactly what lawyers and
    judges are paid to do).
    Actually there was one other attorney. A defense lawyer hired
    by the accused, listed as Lance Evans. (No doubt he is one of
    those amoral defense lawyers who will do anything at all to get
    an innocent man set free??? Disgusting, eh?)

    I was particularly upset that several people, but most
    significantly the prosecutor, claimed "the system worked"! That
    is after a man is falsely accused, and with no evidence of a
    crime whatever incarcerated for 24 hours while his picture,
    name, and reputation are dragged through the mud as some sort of
    "sex offender", and he has to post bail and hire an attorney to
    be released... all to have them apologize and in the same
    breath tell him the system *works*!

    Those who harp about attorneys need a better *mirror* to see the
    problem...
     
    Floyd Davidson, Nov 1, 2005
    #7
  8. Well, the problem is that laws are mostly written and enacted by folks who
    are lawyers or used to be practicing lawyers. The law/legislation function
    of USA society has less check and balance than any other major civil
    institution or function. The law controls the law and the law is 99%
    controlled by lawyers or folks who hold law degrees. This troubles many of
    us.
     
    Charles Schuler, Nov 1, 2005
    #8
  9. I strongly disagree. I am a retired professor of engineering technology and
    know something about logical thinking. Lawyers are not paid to be logical
    thinkers or even ethical thinkers ... they are paid based on their
    maneuvering and procedural skills and, unfortunately, on the greed of
    litigants and the extreme desire of miscreants to escape reasonable
    punishment. A written and signed contract means little these days. Any
    sufficiently skilled lawyer can challenge anything and judges are not apt to
    throw out trivial torts or suits or challenges of almost any type ... guess
    why?

    I am not trashing lawyers as a group. I am not Shakespeare (who advised
    killing all of them). I am pointing out that this country (USA) stays
    relatively honest with a system of checks and balances, which the legal
    profession is currently lacking.
     
    Charles Schuler, Nov 2, 2005
    #9
  10. Dean S. Lautermilch, Nov 2, 2005
    #10
  11. Annika1980

    Jer Guest

    Which is precesely why the arrest, incarceration, posting of bail, even
    sweeing the inside of a courtroom should never have happened. Last time
    I was in this same situation, I filed a civil suit to recover my
    out-of-pocket expenses + 3x punitive. And yes, they paid so fast it
    scared me.
     
    Jer, Nov 2, 2005
    #11
  12. Annika1980

    PTravel Guest

    A tiny fraction of lawyers are legislators. All legislators, however, are
    politicians. Blame the politicians, not the lawyers.
    Nonsense. Legislation is controlled by legislators, who are elected
    directly by the people. Blame the legislators, and an ignorant electorate
    that put them in office, not lawyers who have nothing to do with the form or
    content of legislation.
    No, it doesn 't. Politicians make the law.
    Again, pure nonsense. The law is 100% controlled by politicians.
    Legislators are 99% white and 99% Christian as well. Legislators are 99%
    college-educated. Let's blame college-educated, white Christians.
    Senseless bigotry troubles many of us.
     
    PTravel, Nov 2, 2005
    #12
  13. Lawyers make up a large percentage of those who legislate,
    implement, and/or interpret our laws. But that is not to say
    that they are responsible for the mess that our statutes might
    be.

    In the 1980's I knew a young lady who worked her way to a degree
    in education as a legislative aide. She told me that she wanted
    to go to law school; it was apparent that the only legislators
    who had *any* idea what was going on were those who had formal
    training in a Graduate Law program.

    Like many other lawyers, she does not practice law today. She
    spends a great deal of time going back and forth between Alaska
    and Washington DC, and has significant influence on how laws are
    implemented today (in the heath care and Indian Law fields).

    I would suggest it is more likely that lawyers have prevented
    non-lawyers from making Law an even worse mess than it is... ;-)
    But realistically, it is much more likely that proportionately
    lawyers are less the cause than the others, and in both cases
    there are those who we'd all just as soon had stayed at home.
     
    Floyd Davidson, Nov 2, 2005
    #13
  14. Annika1980

    PTravel Guest

    That's absolutely false. You clearly don't understand anything about
    lawyers or the practice of law.

    Lawyers are trained to be VERY logical thinkers -- analytical and logical
    skills are the most important fundamentals to a successful practioner.
    Lawyers aretrained (and tested) extensively in ethics, before they are
    allowed to become lawyers, and are held to the most rigid ethical standards.
    Lawyers are NOT paid "for their manuevering and procedural skills," but for
    their understanding of the law and their ability to analyze their clients'
    situations and correctly apply the law.

    Sorry, but this is pure garbage. Apparently, your only contact with lawyers
    (if any) has been at the lowest levels of the profession, i.e. personal
    injury, family and criminal lawyers. The overwhelming majority of lawyers
    practice on behalf of businesses, resolving disputes their clients have with
    other businesses.

    You are an educated man, yet you treat as fact the meanest and most common
    stereotypes. As a retired professor you should know better. Shame on you!

    What do you know about contracts? Where did you study contract law? Who
    ever paid you to draft one? When have you ever litigated one?
    Okay, I'll guess .... because you don't know what you're talking about?
    Lawyers are held _personally_ responsible and liable for frivolous filings,
    and judges are not at all loathe to impose sanctions for wasting the court's
    time with nonsense.
    Yes, you are. And your basis for doing so is no more nor less than
    superstition and rumor.

    No, he did not. Do a little research and find the context in which
    Shakespeare wrote that line. The line is spoken by a
    character called "Dick the Butcher" in Henry IV, Part 2. Dick is a murderer
    who is plotting with a member of Jack Cade's gang, a pretender to the
    throne. Dick mentions it as the first thing to do when the revolution
    comes. The line can have a couple of meanings -- either that it is the
    lawyers that stand between society and anarchy so they must, therefore, be
    eliminated, or, Dick's conception of a utopian society is limited to
    removing the impediments to his illegal activities. Either way, Shakespeare
    was not avocating killing lawyers. Quite the contrary, the line, in the
    context it was spoken, is a clear acknowledgement of the necessary function
    lawyers fulfill.

    You may have been a good engineering professor. Your knowledge of lawyers
    is about on a par with your knowledge of Shakespeare, i.e. superficial and
    misinformed.
    Sorry, but you don't know the first thing about the legal profession. I'd
    suggest that, instead of getting your information from right-wing pundits
    and political hacks, you actually learn something about the groups that you
    smear.
     
    PTravel, Nov 2, 2005
    #14
  15. Huh? If not they, then who?
    Good for her and I applaud those of her ilk. And your point is?
    I would suggest that lawyers have prevented non-lawyers from invading their
    turf and sapping their hold on the rest of us. As an example, legal
    language is stilted, bloated, convoluted, and contrived to be unreadable by
    the rest of us.
    Realistically, the USA has far more lawyers than it reasonably needs. Some
    are known to encourage/promote litigation and the cost of all of this is
    passed on to the rest of us. This is most unfortunate, but is just the tip
    of the iceberg. It is common knowledge that capricious litigation stifles
    creativity. Many designs do not reach our markets because of anticipated
    litigation. Take the case of a monitor for SIDS (sudden infant death
    syndrome). A cleverly designed monitor could save 9 out of 10 infants but
    the company (or their insurers) would be wiped out by lawsuits. A major
    reason of the huge off-shore movement from the USA is potential litigation
    problems ... it is not just labor costs ... it is also the EPA and the ACLU
    .... and on and on. Lawyers are generally very bright people but don't seem
    to be able to understand the "golden goose story".

    Anyway, there are public groups now in existence and new ones forming for
    legal reform, and I am participating. It is time to do more than just bitch
    about this.
     
    Charles Schuler, Nov 2, 2005
    #15
  16. Annika1980

    Bill Funk Guest

    IIRC, the original news story didn't mention the arresting officer(s)
    seeing any pictures.
    http://www.nbc5i.com/news/5086442/detail.html
    This article says there was an investigation during which the police
    determined he was taking pics of a sexual nature.
    Yet the article cited above says the picture didn't bear that out,
    which strongly hints the police didn't look at his pics before the
    arrest.
    Thus the idea that the arresting police went on complaints, not the
    pics.
     
    Bill Funk, Nov 2, 2005
    #16
  17. Annika1980

    223rem Guest

    This is nothing compared to the fate of people who were
    exonerated after spending years on death
    row for a crime they did not commit.

    And those victims of the 'justice system' got
    no compensation whatsover, nor were the overzealous,
    dishonest prosecutors and crooked cops who victimized
    them punished in any way.

    Basically, they were told 'Sorry, shit happens'.

    Absoulutely outrageous. Our 'justice' system can
    grab you at any time, innocent or not.
     
    223rem, Nov 2, 2005
    #17
  18. Oh, but I do. I know that lawyers look for deep pockets. I know that small
    claims court is a sad joke. I know that lawyers call accident victims after
    reading police blotters and listening to radio scanners. I know that
    lawyers promote suits. I know that you are a lawyer and a rather
    thin-skinned one at that.
    That's just bull. I helped a few students study for their LSATs and know
    what kind of intelligence law schools are looking for. Yes, engineering
    students do sometimes go on to law school ... and there is certainly nothing
    wrong with that. Ethics are too often forgotten, once legal practice
    starts. I have read commencement addresses by deans of law schools and they
    sometimes admonish graduates to remember their ethics. Sad, but as most
    commencement addresses go, it all falls on deaf ears.
    It is hardly garbage. You don't much like it, so you label it garbage.
    Many lawyers do outstanding work and render a true service ... many do not.
    Yes, shame on me for having an opinion. Ignorance is correctable;
    unfortunately stupidty is not. Enlighten me, and I will be less ignorant.
    Insult me, and I will remain stupid.
    OK, I'm obviously not a lawyer. So? Does one need to be a lawyer to
    observe that litigation is rampant; even when once valid agreements are in
    place? Give me a break. You guys and gals have even been on prime TV
    boasting about your ability to contest any agreement.
    Since you are so sensitive about this, I'll simply concede that you are an
    outstanding lawyer and am proud to have interacted with you.
    Sorry, but you perhaps don't have a clue that there is a grass-roots
    movement in this country (my state, FL, has one) for legal reform. I
    participate in that reform, by the way.

    I once worked for a company owned by a brilliant biomedical engineer and he
    was thwarted several times for new product ideas because of potential
    litigation. I have known of radiologists who have retired early because of
    lawsuits and the cost of malpractice insurance. You guys don't seem to
    understand that there is "too much of a good thing." Sure, litigation can
    be a good thing ... otherwise companies and landlords and manufacturers
    would run over us like a steam roller. Don't loose your sense of balance.
     
    Charles Schuler, Nov 2, 2005
    #18
  19. Annika1980

    223rem Guest

    PTravel wrote:

    Criminal lawyering is real lawyering, meaning helping real, 'small'
    people. Coroporate lawyers are nothing else than capitalist leeches.
     
    223rem, Nov 2, 2005
    #19
  20. Annika1980

    Frank ess Guest

    Another display of the kashe syndrome. Puts on a good face, puts out
    some good stuff, something happens, gets all uptight, offended, and
    offensive.

    Must be something in the water hereabouts.

    --
    Frank ess
    "All of philosophy consists of unlocking, exhuming,
    and recanting what's been said before,
    and then getting riled up about it."
    —V.S. Ramachandran—
     
    Frank ess, Nov 2, 2005
    #20
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