WPS WiFi w. Vista on Intel 4965AGN

Discussion in 'Wireless Networks' started by dbird, Oct 7, 2008.

  1. dbird

    dbird Guest

    I am trying to connect my Dell 1720 w. Vista Home to a Wireless-N router
    using WiFi Protected Setup aka WPS.

    The adapter is an Intel 4965AGN which, according to the Intel website is
    certified for WPS.

    I can connect to the router with no security using the 1720/4965AGN. I
    have already configured another computer to connect to the router
    successfully with WPS.

    Here's the problem:

    When I try to modify the Wireless Network properties of the 1720/4965AGN
    connection in the security tab from open to WPS, there are _no_ WPS
    options in the selection list. There are only the open, shared,
    WPA2-Personal/Enterprise, WPA-Personal/Enterprise, 802.1x, and Intel -
    Open w 802.1x/WPA-Enterprise/WPA2-Enterprise.

    Yes, I know that I could do the workaround using WPA whatever, but being
    WPS certified, there should be no need for that. Dell tech support is
    useless even though I have the 24/7 support. They want me to pay $ for
    an "advanced software problem", which I will not do of course.

    Can anyone please shed some insight on this? Does the list of properties
    somehow come from the router making this a compatibility issue maybe of
    N versions?

    Thanks in advance,

    Dave
     
    dbird, Oct 7, 2008
    #1
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  2. dbird

    Barb Bowman Guest

    WPS would not show up in the security tab. that is not how it works.
    what router are you using? are you using a push button
    implementation, WPS/WCN over a wired connection or wireless
    connection? Describe the steps you are taking.

    --

    Barb Bowman
    MS-MVP
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
    http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
    http://digitalmediaphile.wordpress.com
     
    Barb Bowman, Oct 7, 2008
    #2
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  3. dbird

    dbird Guest

    Thanks Barb for the reply.

    I'm using an Airlink model AR680W. I've set up the other laptop using
    both the button and the PIN method with WPS. Works on that one both
    ways, but of course both the adapter and the router in that case are
    Airlink. The connection is set up via wireless. I'm trying to set up the
    1720/4965AGN via wireless also.

    When attempting the setup with the 1720/4965AGN/wireless I have tried
    two methods. Modifying the properties of the connection in the security
    tab, and setting up a manual connection and selecting the type of
    connection there; amounts to the same thing in that the same menu of
    security types come up both ways.

    Incidentally, the router is already configured to enable WPS, and there
    is a button to add a wireless device. But the procedure always is
    supposed to begin with the adapter. At least according to everything I
    have always read. The router button to add is supposed to be pressed
    after initiating the request for a new connection type from the adapter,
    and you go from there. The whole procedure with Airlink on both ends
    runs like this:

    1. Adapter: press WPS connect.
    2. Adapter: Choose PIN or Push Button method. From here I describe PIN.
    3. Adapter: Copy down PIN issued by adapter.
    4. Router: Press Add Wireless Device button.
    5. Router: Enter PIN copied from adapter, press connect
    6. Router/Adapter: Acknowledgment of WPS connection on both adapter and
    router.

    Thanks again,

    Dave
     
    dbird, Oct 7, 2008
    #3
  4. dbird

    dbird Guest

    Where/how do I get into Intel PROset within Vista?

    Don't think I'm using WZO since I have suppressed broadcast of the SSID.
    I had/have to do the initial setup/connect manually.

    Thanks for the reply,

    Dave
     
    dbird, Oct 7, 2008
    #4
  5. dbird

    Barb Bowman Guest

    so, WCN over wireless (part of WPS) requires Vista SP1 and a hotfix
    which vendors are distributing and AFAIK, not MS. QFE942567

    HP has it posted for some of their systems. Here is one (64 bit)
    that HP has up:
    http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/...&dlc=en&cc=us&lang=en&os=2100&product=3752245
    --

    Barb Bowman
    MS-MVP
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
    http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
    http://digitalmediaphile.wordpress.com
     
    Barb Bowman, Oct 8, 2008
    #5
  6. dbird

    dbird Guest

    Thanks for the digging. I followed this into MS. Looks like it's
    official that it's available _only_ through the system vendors.
    Evidently there are 32 as well as 64 bit versions from MS.

    Dave
     
    dbird, Oct 9, 2008
    #6
  7. dbird

    dbird Guest

    Below:
    Found it on the Dell site finally. It's an "optional" download. I
    installed it, but there doesn't seem to be any difference in response
    that I can tell. (version 11.something)

    Re your experience with the WPS enabled router/Proset s/w. Did you
    enter the PIN code from the router into the system with the adapter?
    (Router PIN code usually found on the back of the router or in the
    router management s/w.) I don't think my Airlink router has any way to
    do that. It's always looking for a PIN/code from the adapter. I tried
    the router PIN in the third field in the security properties, didn't
    make any difference, still no connection.

    I looked for a PIN code in the properties of my adapter. Nothing obvious
    there either by name or by bit count. Haven't looked on the adapter card
    yet.

    Thanks,

    Dave
     
    dbird, Oct 9, 2008
    #7
  8. dbird

    Barb Bowman Guest

    the bits inside the 942567 hotfix should not be vendor specific,
    although a wrapper around them may be. HP has the 32 bit version
    posted as well.

    --

    Barb Bowman
    MS-MVP
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
    http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
    http://digitalmediaphile.wordpress.com
     
    Barb Bowman, Oct 9, 2008
    #8
  9. dbird

    Barb Bowman Guest

    so, the PIN code can be an 8 (or sometimes 4) digit code on a label
    on the router itself (look for it on a label). some vendors have the
    PIN code only inside their GUI and you have to log in from a wired
    machine to the admin page to find it and sometimes even enable the
    WPS registrar. If you have the QFE installed and the router supports
    the PIN #, you may be able to use WCN over the wireless interface.

    I don't have any Intel a/b/g/n NICs in any of my equipment here so I
    can't tell you that I've tried this with Intel NICs.

    --

    Barb Bowman
    MS-MVP
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
    http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
    http://digitalmediaphile.wordpress.com
     
    Barb Bowman, Oct 9, 2008
    #9
  10. dbird

    dbird Guest

    On my Airlink router it was the same, but the GUI has a button to change
    it.

    I've never tried to set up a straight WPA connection. I'm going to try
    that out today. Maybe I'll learn something ;-) I put in a query to the
    vendor to ask if that's supposed to be functional at the same time as
    WPS. The manual says no, but that's been wrong before, so we'll see.
     
    dbird, Oct 9, 2008
    #10
  11. dbird

    Barb Bowman Guest

    Barb Bowman, Oct 9, 2008
    #11
  12. dbird

    dbird Guest

    Hi Guys:

    Well, I have been in correspondence with Airlink's cust service. I have
    been running some experiments which indicate that something is very
    peculiar.

    The router manual says once a WPS connection is made, all additional
    connections must be WPS also. CS verified that this is true. But, I made
    an experiment where I established a WPS connection with pc1 which has an
    Airlink adapter, then made an open connection with pc2 which has the
    Intel adapter. There is no way for sure to tell if the first connection
    drops it's security because the Airlink s/w does not show security
    status for a non-broadcasted SSID connected with WPS, but it's for sure
    that the second connection is completely open. Now, I've communicated
    the details of all this to Airlink CS. They won't get back to me 'till
    next week, so we'll see what they say.

    In the meantime, I will explore straight forward connections using WPA
    and a security word to see if the same thing happens. Fun, fun, fun. :-(

    Thanks for the help. I'll post the results so the world will know just
    in case anyone's interested.

    Dave
     
    dbird, Oct 11, 2008
    #12
  13. dbird

    Barb Bowman Guest

    first, NOT broadcasting the SSID is really not a good security
    measure.

    second, sounds like Airlink has some bugs in their implementation.

    --

    Barb Bowman
    MS-MVP
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
    http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
    http://digitalmediaphile.wordpress.com
     
    Barb Bowman, Oct 11, 2008
    #13
  14. dbird

    dbird Guest

    Why NOT? This is contrary to everything that everyone else has told me.
    First thing to do is turn off SSID broadcast....

    Please explain.

    Thanks,

    Dave
     
    dbird, Oct 12, 2008
    #14
  15. Ben M. Schorr - MVP (OneNote), Oct 12, 2008
    #15
  16. dbird

    dbird Guest

    Performance/stability issues? Well, I am certainly seeing that, but only
    with my non-Airlink adapter. The Airlink adapter seems solid, as far as
    it goes. Care to give some examples?

    It would be interesting if anyone has started a list of known
    (in)compatibility issues between different implementations of the
    wireless-N.
     
    dbird, Oct 12, 2008
    #16
  17. dbird

    Barb Bowman Guest

    you are probably talking with the wrong "everyone". back in the
    802.11b days, this was something alot of people did. but now it is
    not considered a good deterrent. anyone that really wants to find
    your SSID WILL find it. and it makes it tougher for some wireless
    clients to find and hold a connection.

    security should be configured with WPA2 with a strong passphrase.

    --

    Barb Bowman
    MS-MVP
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
    http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
    http://digitalmediaphile.wordpress.com
     
    Barb Bowman, Oct 12, 2008
    #17
  18. dbird

    dbird Guest

    Two developments.

    Airlink CS is telling me that the manuals are wrong. Both router and
    adapter manuals show that security, meaning WPA, etc, normal manual
    setups are turned off when using WPS. That is what I have been doing. CS
    now says that the checkbox in the GUI for the manual security has to be
    on. Grrr!

    Their exact words: "Yes; [manual] security needs to be enabled for a
    secure connection however WPS is just an easy way to connect your two
    airlink devices together and nothing more. It does not provide security."

    So, this is why I was able to see an open connection at the same time as
    I thought there was a secure connection using WPS. The request for a PIN
    must have been thrown away. I have another query to CS for clarification.

    My experiments enabling manual WPA with a security word yielded correct
    results in that only the Airlink adapter was able to make a secure
    connection. The Intel adapter was still unable to establish a secure
    connection or an open connection while manual security was checked in
    the router GUI.

    At this point, I don't see much utility in WPS. It uses an 8 character
    PIN and that's it unless you make your own, then it's the same as
    WPA/etc manual. Each adapter using WPS has it's own unique PIN if you
    choose that method. That might give some advantage; don't know. The CS
    comment that WPS is just an easy way to connect makes sense in the
    Airlink context, I guess. It takes a little bit more reading in the
    manual to set up an manual secure connection, but after doing it, I
    think it is actually easier to do the manual method.

    I'm going to pursue the manual method from here on. Unless the final N
    spec gives some advantage to the WPS. The connection problem with Intel
    looks like a compatibility issue between vendors. I'll pursue that with
    Airlink CS some more maybe. There's some more experiments I can do to
    check that out.

    Thanks for the help.

    Dave
     
    dbird, Oct 14, 2008
    #18
  19. dbird

    Barb Bowman Guest

    so (in theory) WCN in Vista + an update available only from vendors
    (Wireless Feature Pack for Windows) + USB flash key makes the whole
    thing easy. (altho with Intel, for N, best to use WPA2).

    1. with the update above, you can set up a new connection over
    wireless with the PIN number from the router. then

    2. on the computer you are using to set this up, you insert the USB
    flash key and save the settings. then

    3. you plug the flash key into other Vista computers you want to
    join that new wireless network.

    some of this push button stuff is still pretty bleeding edge..

    --

    Barb Bowman
    MS-MVP
    http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/meetexperts/bowman.mspx
    http://blogs.digitalmediaphile.com/barb/
    http://digitalmediaphile.wordpress.com
     
    Barb Bowman, Oct 14, 2008
    #19
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