Would you guys consider MCSE etc to be "trade certificates"?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Bobs, Dec 29, 2007.

  1. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    I've got MCSE as well as some lower certs like A+ and Network+, and I'm
    wanting to get CCNA this year if possible. These are IT certs in case
    you're wondering. The reason I ask is that I'm looking at moving to
    Australia with the wife and we obviously need PR to do that. Yes I know
    that as a kiwi I can just move there and get a special visa thingie, but
    my wife is a chinese national so that wont be any good for her. So I
    need to make a PR application instead.

    My occuption is considered high demand so I can get a huge 60 points for
    that, so really, if MCSE can be considerd a trade cert we're pretty set.

    I knew I should have got a bloody degree.
     
    Bobs, Dec 29, 2007
    #1
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  2. Bobs

    Fred Guest


    Who is 'the' wife? Yours by any chance?
     
    Fred, Dec 29, 2007
    #2
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  3. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    Thanks for that input, Fred.
     
    Bobs, Dec 29, 2007
    #3
  4. Bobs

    Sue Bilstein Guest

    I'd consider them trade certs, but the key question is what Aussie
    immigration would think. Why don't you ring them up and ask them?

    If they're like DOTARS, they'll be open on 2nd Jan.
    Sounds to me like you've got no worries, sport.
     
    Sue Bilstein, Dec 29, 2007
    #4
  5. Bobs

    george Guest

    What you have is entry level paper.
    Now you have to convince an employer that you are worth taking on as a
    trainee technician where you can get the experience that will make you
    -really- employable
     
    george, Dec 29, 2007
    #5
  6. Surely if she had been given NZ citizenship then she would be in the same
    situation as yourself. It would make things easier for when you emigrate
    to Australia if she seeks and gets NZ citizenship. :eek:)

    MSCE only means that you can regurgitate the M$ way. It doesn't mean you
    can provide real-world solutions.

    I suppose it *might* be considered a trade certificate in a technical
    sense. However, CCNA really is the better qualification (I'd also suggest
    that even A+ is a better. It is relatively difficult and is considerably
    more meaningful to an employer.

    If you can attain CCNA then you should be set to go. I understand that
    there are only a few (read 2 or 3 in all Australia) who actually have the
    highest Cisco qualification.
     
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Dec 29, 2007
    #6
  7. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    I'll hardly consider MCSE/CCNA as entry level certs. That would be A+
    for me. At the same time they're certainly not degree level.
    I've have a good 5 yrs experience already. You don't need a job offer
    for PR application. I'm just interestd if MCSE for example is a trade
    cert, my work experience is well in excess of what they ask for (2 years)
     
    Bobs, Dec 29, 2007
    #7
  8. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    Yes I will. They seem easy to deal with. I am used to dealing with US
    immigration Sue. Can't call, can't email, can only see them in person
    between the hours of 9am and 12pm. Useless.
     
    Bobs, Dec 29, 2007
    #8
  9. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    She only got PR a year ago. That would mean at least another 4 years of
    waiting.
    MCSE obviously pushes Windows SErver 200x, but it also teaches network
    design indepedent of the operating systems.

    Anyway, that's not relevent. What's relevent is if they regard it as a
    trade cert.
     
    Bobs, Dec 29, 2007
    #9
  10. CCNA is in fact Cisco's basic entry level qualification, and yes it is
    not easy to get. The Cisco qualifications only get much harder after that
    one.

    MCSE is almost not worth the paper it is written on. Too many people have
    MCSE who cannot implement real-world solutions or fixes using M$ software.

    Also, if you're looking at working in networking, then MCSE is completely
    worthless.
     
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Dec 29, 2007
    #10
  11. Bobs

    Adam Cameron Guest

    Are you following Robbie Deans over ;-)
     
    Adam Cameron, Dec 30, 2007
    #11
  12. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    What, you mean like degrees? The fact of the matter is that it's a
    problem throughout many industries...not just IT. People with paper
    certs/degrees.
    Nothing do with with your anti-microsoft bias of course. MCSE actually
    got me my current job.
     
    Bobs, Dec 30, 2007
    #12
  13. Correct.

    If you want a job in Networking then you want Cisco qualifications.

    If you want a job in Desktop support then you want A+.

    Of what *real-world* benefit is MCSE? None that I know of.
     
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Dec 30, 2007
    #13
  14. As experience increases the paper is of decreasing value. If you have
    five years well documented experience any employer worth working for
    will be looking at that rather than the paper.

    R
     
    Roger Dewhurst, Dec 30, 2007
    #14
  15. Bobs

    Sue Bilstein Guest


    But in terms of accumulating points for Australian permanent
    residence, the paper will help.
     
    Sue Bilstein, Dec 30, 2007
    #15
  16. Agreed.
     
    Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC), Dec 30, 2007
    #16
  17. Bobs

    El.chippy Guest

    http://www.australia-migration.com/page/Tradespersons/55

    Judging by the definition of Trade certificate on this page, no, MSCE
    and/or CCNA wouldn't qualify as a trade cert.

    If you have 6+ years of work experience it should count towards this
    bit:

    Recognition as a tradesperson: Where a person never entered into an
    apprenticeship contract or completed a trade test, TRA may consider
    the applicant as a qualified tradesperson if:

    * The person has been working in the trade full time for at least
    6 to 9 years
    * can prove employment as such
    * have completed some sort of vocational training in the trade
    * All claims can be substantiated with extensive documentation)

    IANAL, YMMV etc...

    Squiggle
     
    El.chippy, Dec 30, 2007
    #17
  18. Bobs

    El.chippy Guest


    And moments after the previous post I found this page..

    http://www.australia-migration.com/page/Professionals/45
    ***
    IT occupations

    Most IT occupations are currently on the occupations in Demand
    category which means that Australia needs you !

    There are various categories of IT occupation - and we will provide
    relevant details to you in an assessment we do

    Generally, qualifications such as MSCE alone will NOT meet the
    criteria for migration as an IT Professional - additional
    qualifications and some experience will be required.
    ***

    Sorry Bobs, looks like you have to go the hard way.
     
    El.chippy, Dec 30, 2007
    #18
  19. Bobs

    Bobs Guest

    Well, I do have additional qualifications and experience....but thanks
    for the link.
     
    Bobs, Dec 30, 2007
    #19
  20. Are you sure of that? I assume your wife has NZ permanent residency (or you'd
    have immigration on your doorstep). I which case she should have no difficulty
    moving to Aus on a NZ permanent residency - at least that was the case last
    time I looked (which admittedly is over 10 years ago). It IS possible that the
    rules have been changed in Australia, but I haven't heard of any such thing.
    Worth finding out, methinks.

    -P.
     
    Peter Huebner, Dec 30, 2007
    #20
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