Windows Media Player 9 is a security risk

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Steve Young, Oct 22, 2003.

  1. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    So do you try to buy pants without zippers, given that you already have
    plenty of zippers around the house?
    I don't think so. Operating systems are difficult and expensive to
    write. Indeed, very few companies today can afford to undertake the
    development of a completely new operating system. Microsoft could ...
    but Apple could not. And operating systems themselves may never quite
    amortize their development costs through sales of the OS.
    It's not _that_ hard to set up, although it is more trouble than it is
    worth for the type of use he is making of it. It's great for large
    enterprises, though.
    It's working great now. I just hope all the hardware runs forever. The
    CPU fan has failed on the UNIX system (which is running on cheap
    hardware--UNIX doesn't need much), but since the system is about 99%
    idle most of the time, it hasn't overheated. This will be the second
    CPU fan that has failed on me. Can't anyone design microprocessors that
    don't have to be constantly cooled just to prevent them from melting?
    Would you want it to? Do you want your e-mail opened by someone else as
    Do it the fast way: Send a letter.
    They probably have yet to be attacked.
    It's not that easy. That's like saying "If someone gets squished
    against the pier by my oil tanker as it docks, I'll just quickly pull
    Some risks _are_ the customer's responsibility.
    I bet you have more money than I do. So there.
    Mxsmanic, Oct 29, 2003
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  2. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Which companies allow you to write contracts with them in your own way?
    Mxsmanic, Oct 29, 2003
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  3. CALL EXIT? Not familiar with that method of application termination.
    That's a design flaw. It's the OS's responsibility to maintain control
    of the system's resources. If the OS is incapable of reclaiming
    control of system resources from a non-existant process, the OS
    designers haven't done a good job.

    Even with XP, when I've been developing an app that crashes with a
    file opened for write access, I have to reboot the CPU to be able to
    delete that file. An OS that can't release even the simplest of
    resources such as a file handle isn't much of an OS, and yes, this is
    in my opinion.
    Probably not, but then again we're not discussing the early mainframe
    operating systems and how their vendors have manipulated the market
    into thinking their solution was the only way to go. We're discussing
    contemporary and relatively contemporary microcomputer operating
    Never saw this type of problem with Xenix, which is smaller than any
    version of Windows from 95 up. It wouldn't be an issue in DOS or any
    other single user operating environment that didn't support file
    Ah yes, I remember well the segmentation of the 8088 platform, but it
    wasn't much of a problem for MS-DOS. The true sufferers in this regard
    were the producers of third party applications. I remember EMM386 very
    well, as my apps utilized the full amount of memory in the machine.
    The only time that the 64k barrier proved to be a real problem was
    when you were trying to calculate the address of an element in an
    array of data structures where the size of one element was 32k or
    greater. Far (20 bit) pointers solved all other problems, although
    admittedly there was some extra overhead incurred in this solution.
    Even this could be coded around if it got to be too expensive.
    I can't say much for the efforts of other programmer's, but apps I
    wrote for personal use rarely ran into that limit. Apps I wrote for my
    employer would run in as little as 256k, but would execute far more
    efficiently depending on how much extra (conventional or expanded)
    memory was installed. After I started working for him, and he noticed
    how much faster the apps performed on machines with extra memory, he
    started throwing memory into all the machines.

    As I'm just now beginning to develop Windows apps, which are very
    small, and very specific utilities, the size of the executables is
    below 128k at present. In most cases memory requirements are minimal
    for the algorithms and data sets utilized, although I'm not certain
    how much overhead is required by the OS for the GUI resources.
    I thought so. :)

    You might like this one, too. The local paper had on the editorial
    page a cartoon of Einstein leaning over his desk, in front of a
    monitor and keyboard. On the monitor was displayed "E=mc^3". The
    caption was "Lousy pentium chip." I thought it was an odd thing for
    our local paper to carry.
    Not exactly the point I was trying to make. :)

    The point being that it was Borland that brought the first Window GUI
    Windows compiler, and not Microsoft. I'm not certain I'd want to do
    cross-compiling anyway, unless it was for embedded systems.
    I'm not following Adobe that closely. After Photoshop 4.0, I couldn't
    see much compelling reason to upgrade to 5.0 or 5.5. I've got a friend
    who follows this product line very closely, and when he tells me about
    the features in the new releases, it's hard to stifle a yawn because
    it doesn't sound like anything terribly earth shattering, or missing
    from the earlier versions. Sure, they've made some things a little
    nicer, easier, or faster, but from what I can gather there is nothing
    you can do with newer versions that can't be done with Photoshop 4.0.
    It seemed to be a bit excessive. :) Granted, I'm sure someone needs
    all those features, but my modest needs are met by far smaller
    applications. And I've seen some who's word processing requirements
    are less than mine, and they still use a sledge hammer to drive a ten
    penny nail.
    Good point; thanks for pointing that out.
    I don't know anything about exchange, but having seen how much her
    mail service has improved since they switched to Exchange, I'm wanting
    to run a copy myself. :-D
    My heavens; that's unreal! How many mailing lists are you subscribed
    Because chances are they'll develop another neat feature in the future
    that will show up in a Microsoft product a few years later.
    They are fantastic for taking part of your desktop with you. I also
    use mine to catch up on some reading from time to time, particularly
    when I find myself in a lengthy line that isn't being expediently
    serviced. Sometimes I'll drag a folding keyboard along with me if I
    feel the urge to write. I also use it as part of a backup for certain
    source code files that are very dynamic. In years past I've used mine
    to surf the web, read and post to usenet, deal with email when I was
    nowhere near a power or phone jack, and to update various parts of my
    web site. I also use it to clock in and out on the few service calls I
    make and programming tasks that I bill for. Plus, my desk no longer is
    covered with little scraps of paper like it once was, and every PC I
    synchronize the device with (there are four) has the same content as
    those scraps I used to write on. And occasionally, I'll play a game if
    I really get bored. :)
    Never used Quark, but I think PM is a decent app.
    Agreed, but one company can do a great deal to undermine the results
    of the society.
    Agreed whole heartedly. I find an app, and stick with it, until
    someone demonstrates something better. But I do make those switches
    from time to time.
    The job market in the area I live in is *trash* right now;
    unemployment is at 8%. In the 11 months I've been unemployed, there
    has been one job in the programming area, and it required experience I
    did not have. Supposedly we are at our highest unemployment rate since
    the depression.

    Furthermore, the last 11 years of experience I have are in Textiles;
    this area had the headquarters for a reasonable number of textile
    companies that have gone "belly up" over the last three or four years.
    When those companies started shutting their doors, the local market
    became flooded with unemployed programmers (which is how and why my
    last employer got an IT manager with a love for Microsoft). This
    employer, in part due to the software system we developed, was able to
    hang on longer than most local industries in the textile segment, but
    when it went, well... It would have been much better for me if my
    employer would have folded first, so I could have got a jump on the
    job search before everyone else.

    Jobs outside of my field are a joke; no one wants to hire me because I
    made so much money at my last job, they are afraid I'll leave as soon
    as something better comes along. It's kind of a sad statement, as I
    took a pay cut to go to my last job, as it was related to something I
    enjoy, and did as a hobby at one time: writing image processing
    software. I was paid to play, and because I played so well my employer
    gave me some very nice raises. But I really didn't take the job
    because of the pay rate.

    So I'm overqualified to work in a restaurant or a convenience store,
    and there aren't many tech jobs in this area right now. My son lives
    in the area, so I have no interest in relocating.

    It's a very strange situation, because up until a couple of years ago
    I was getting calls on a regular basis from various companies wanting
    me to come to work for them, even though at the time I wasn't
    searching for a job. Now those companies are gone, too.
    There was competition for those.

    For Excel, there was Lotus and Quattro. For Word, there was Word
    Perfect and Word Star. I'm positive there are others, but those just
    come to mind. Word Perfect and Lotus were very entrenched, too. Time
    will tell the tale.
    But much like Windows CE, I believe they'll be back with something to
    compete with PhotoShop. PhotoShop has demonstrated there is a market
    for that type of product; Bob demonstrated nothing except for
    Microsoft's excellent inventiveness.
    Sad. Though developers tended to get overzealous (a statement like
    that coming from me? <grin>) about C++, in certain situations it was a
    severe blessing. Of course, I wouldn't advocate converting everything
    in a working system to objects, but I did convert my image file
    structure to an object, and garnered a few benefits. Ease of use
    significantly increased, and the amount of code required to maintain
    the project decreased.

    Plus, it's nice to be able to create a structure that has a pointer in
    it, and know that memory that pointer references will be released (if
    that's call for) when the structure goes out of scope. Biggest problem
    with Borland C++ 4.02 was that it's destructor calls didn't always
    function, so I had to roll my own "back-end" to make the compiler more
    C++ compliant in this regard. But it was worth the two man-days I
    spent on the task. When we switched to Watcom, I just commented out
    that code.

    Granted, some people get carried away with C++, particularly in frame
    works, and I believe MFC to be a prime example of this. Borland's OWL
    looked to be equally as worthless as well.
    Agreed that teaching and commercial world are different. However, I
    could not have tackled the projects I did for my previous employer
    without concepts I learned in the class room. The quality of my work
    greatly improved (not that it was terrible to begin with) because of
    the instruction I received. I believe Microsoft's programmers and
    engineers would benefit greatly from some extra time in the classroom.
    They never have stepped away from their cash cows. They've always been
    approached areas away from their cash cows slowly and methodically.
    IBM is a reasonable portion of the reason we have Microsoft to contend
    with. Combined with the brain dead Intel architecture that IBM
    selected for the IBM PC, it's of little surprise that the field of
    microcomputing is retarded.
    And yet earlier in this post you likened an OS to a zipper?
    Maybe they'll use the experience to attempt to become competitive
    through inventiveness, as opposed to manipulation, but somehow or
    another I doubt it.
    That's been the experiences I've had.
    Interesting observation.
    But images (still or moving) and audio *are* data. My last 11 years of
    employment were in image processing. :)
    Well, the stunted level of brilliance they offer doesn't cost as much
    (financially or intellectually) as alternatives do, which is part of
    the reason for their success.
    And I've never seen Microsoft produce a quality product.
    About 18 years, although not consecutively. And I've always been in
    the microcomputer arena. I've got about as much use for big iron as I
    do for, well, outlook express. :-D
    Never really experienced Digital, and my only Itty Bitty Machine
    experiences have been with their PCs. My biggest beef with I Bring
    Money is that they selected Intel over Motorola, and maneuvered
    Microsoft into an area that they've never shown any competence in,
    that being operating "systems."
    Agreed. But people have been predicting Microsoft's demise for years
    now, and it appears they just keep getting stronger and stronger.
    Because the kernel is insecure trash?
    Agreed, but if the underlying OS is properly designed, restarting an
    emulator doesn't require restarting the entire machine. I guess that's
    why Windows boxes are notorious for having to be rebooted so often,
    even though they run Win32 code natively.
    Once you get your mind wrapped around the "command/insert mode"
    concept, vi is an awesome editor, particularly if you're programming
    in a language where block markers are single characters. A touch
    typist with a decent understanding of vi's command set can do some
    simply amazing things with a text file, and if you include what can be
    done with filtering, even more so. Things that I've seen no other
    person be able to do easily with the editor(s) of their choice.

    To be sure, I don't use vi nearly as much as I used to, although on
    occasion I'll copy a block of text from whatever editor I am using,
    paste it into vi, manipulate it there, and then paste it back into the
    primary editor. Amazing that an editor developed in the class room
    decades ago is still more powerful than most commercially available
    editor I've encountered. That's not to say that there aren't
    commercially available editors that have features VI doesn't, just
    that VI is one of those apps that's stood the test of time.

    Most people don't care about it because of it's steep learning curve,
    and I wouldn't have chosen it except that it was forced on me. Given
    that I knew I would be editing a great deal of text with it, I
    resigned myself to learning it as best I could, and it wasn't long
    before my vi 'mentor' was asking me to teach him how to use it. Of
    course, he only had exposure to it for four or five years before we
    David W. Poole, Jr., Oct 29, 2003
  4. Exactly. The price of doing business with Microsoft was to exclude
    doing business with other companies that the vendors wished to work
    David W. Poole, Jr., Oct 29, 2003
  5. Well, without trying to express disrespect towards you, I've seen
    these individuals and their capabilities, and know what they are
    capable of. Each of them has imparted varying degrees of wisdom that
    has helped me to improve my skills. For this reason, I tend to place
    greater weight on other information they've shared with me.
    Agreed. I'm just saying that Microsoft OS'es need to be rebooted more
    frequently to recover from their fundamental design flaws than other
    I'll grant you that. But I'll also state that *any* Windows
    microcomputer I've ever witnessed required rebooting far more
    frequently than any non-Windows microcomputer I've ever witnessed.
    I do my damndest to make sure my programming efforts are 100% bug free
    before releasing my code to the users. Granted, this is an impossible
    goal to obtain, but you can get very close.

    The last bug reported on the mission critical system I developed for
    my previous employer was reported over two years prior to my being
    laid off when the company filed chapter 11. And that particular bug
    was in an extremely esoteric function, very rarely used, and was a
    left over from when we promoted the pixel count from 16 to 32 bits for
    our image files. For the last five years of my employment, I may have
    gotten a bug report on average once every six months. Most were
    eradicated within a couple of hours. I once ran in to a user of our
    system, who didn't know who I was, when I was out on the town one
    evening. She started discussing what she did, and the various systems
    she did it on. She stated that her coworkers and her fought to use the
    system we developed over our competitor's, as our system got the job
    done fastest, easiest, and without error.

    As for software developed for personal use, I do my damndest to
    eradicate the bugs, because I *certainly* don't want to lose any data,
    particularly due to my own stupidity. If I develop a quicky for a
    friend, I make sure to tell them to back up their data before they
    utilize it. The majority of the time that I get a complaint back about
    such an application, it's in regards to the user interface, and not
    errant program operation.
    Ok, you're correct. This explains why microcomputers operating Windows
    can go as long between reboots and patches as microcomputers operating
    They were denied the privilege or right to ship their PCs as they saw
    fit. They were denied the right to ship their PC with Netscape
    preloaded if they wanted to ship it with Windows preloaded as well. It
    was an exclusionary contract. Microsoft leveraged this in an
    anti-competitive manner.
    Why are you changing the argument? First you tell me that the only
    people complaining are Microsoft's competitors, which I am not. Is it
    difficult for you to comprehend that a Microsoft customer can be
    dissatisfied with their products and services?
    I'm not claiming anything; I'm relaying that vendors testified that
    they were forced (coerced, or whatever) into signing contracts with
    Microsoft that prevented the vendors from including products Microsoft
    deemed competitive on the PCs they shipped.

    Evidently the judges and lawyers in the case disagree with your view
    point, but then again they only went to school to learn their trade,
    so they don't know anything.
    Only because it can not be reasonably refuted that Microsoft prevented
    vendors from shipping competitive products on those PCs. You're right;
    nothing more need be said about the issue.
    Why do I have to pay for an operating system when I buy a el-cheapo PC
    if I already have an OS to install on it?

    If I do decide to buy a PC with Windows preloaded on it, why do I want
    Microsoft dictating what can and can not be preloaded by my vendor?

    And if, for some God only know's why reason, I decide to settle on the
    assinine crap that Microsoft pawns off for an email/usenet/web
    browsing client, why do I have to go change settlings to make it safe
    for me to use these applications? No other vendor of such applications
    has a corresponding set of settings.
    Crack dealers want recurring customers, too, but that doesn't say
    anything about the quality or usefulness of the product.
    Those are your words, not mine.
    But I didn't want a computer with *any* microsoft products installed.
    I chose to purchase the cheapest computer I could at the time, because
    of my lack of employment status. I certainly did not need the added
    expense of an operating system.
    End Of Story? Just because *you* say so? Then that must make it so!
    Thanks for the enlightenment.
    I don't expect everyone to agree with me, but I do advise they open
    their eyes and take a look around. It's my opinion that most Microsoft
    fanatics tend to view things microscopically, as opposed to
    macroscopically. In some regards this is good, but in this regard I
    don't believe it's beneficial to the general microcomputing
    As do you; you accuse me of the same fault you have. Hypocrisy, per
    I wouldn't expect the average computer user to know how to write a
    program, but I would expect them to hold a little more knowledge about
    their PC. After all, you expect your average automobile owner to know
    a little more about automobile operation besides how to turn the car
    on and off, don't you?
    David W. Poole, Jr., Oct 29, 2003
  6. It's not the same argument. Not only is there a significant difference
    between the price of a 'complete' set of pants and a computer with an
    OS preloaded, but there is a significant difference between the price
    of a zipper and a license for an OS. If the price for the zipper was
    the same as for an OS, I would recycle zippers.
    Microsoft could, but never has, and probably never will.
    I hear it's wonderful for large enterprises. Another friend of mine
    who is in customer service tells me they shut down Exchange for hours
    at a time whenever one of their employees receives a macrovirus in
    their outlook express client.
    Ain't that the best thing about Unix? How little it needs? 20 users on
    a 33Mhz 80386 with 8mb of RAM were far more productive than those 20
    users could have been using Microsoft equivalents.

    I hope your hardware holds out, too. Might be a good time to see if
    you can build up some spare parts. :)
    Wild; from the 40 machines I used to tend to, fan failure was an above
    average problem.

    Since the system is idle most of the time, you'd think the CPU would
    go into a low power (not off) state when it wasn't needed. The 80x86
    family is supposed to have an instruction that puts it in that mode if
    the OS will call it. I remember reading some time back about a group
    who took the same PC, and ran Linux and Windows on it, measuring the
    average temperature of the CPU. Running under Doze, the CPU ran an
    average of 20 degrees higher.
    Scanning the package, but this would be akin to a viral scanner
    intercepting the email.
    Hell no, but I've got enough sense not to open a package I'm not
    expecting. I would *certainly* verify from the sender of said package
    what was contained inside it before I went further. I emailed an
    attachment to a friend of mine (a .CMD file), asking him to run it,
    and he emailed me back, verifying that I had actually sent it to him,
    before he executed it. He did this because this behavior on my part
    was atypical.
    That might work....
    The friend using Linux to run his ISP informs me that he's been
    attacked constantly over the course of a year and a half, but as of
    yet none of those attacks have been successful.
    And if they release a number of patches in the interim that still
    don't address the original issue, but address issues that have been
    brought up subsequent to the original issue?
    I can't see this. Microsoft's customers, are, for the most part,
    computer illiterate. Microsoft targets this segment of the consumer
    base, as has been argued against me in this thread. After all, it's
    "ease of use" that Microsoft has innovated. Then to ship a product
    with doors wide open? That seems to me to be shooting for customers on
    the other end of the spectrum.
    I very sincerely doubt that, but I won't swear to it.
    David W. Poole, Jr., Oct 29, 2003
  7. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Sometimes it's a design requirement. Sometimes it's a hardware
    constraint. If you have only 4K of memory, you can't afford to keep an
    OS running in memory all the time.
    You can force the file to be released at the API level, IIRC. But that
    isn't always a good idea. A good operating system will lock the file
    until a special application takes explicit action to unlock it, even
    after the application that aborted while accessing the file is gone.
    It's dangerous to just release files that have been written to by an
    application that crashed. You don't know what state those files are in.
    You can write small Windows apps if you avoid all the MFC and other
    stuff. I've certainly done so. But most developers don't work that way
    today, so everything requires 20 MB to load.
    Just a few. But I think that my main e-mail address is harvested from
    my Web site. My Hotmail address (the one I use for USENET) gets so much
    spam that I just reject anything that isn't in my address book (and
    there is nothing in my Hotmail address book).
    Who cares? I just buy whatever has what I want. I'm not keeping score.
    Not without real keyboards, real mice, 20-inch displays, and graphic
    When I go outside, I carry a camera.
    Since there isn't any alternate universe to which we can compare this
    one, we don't know what influence Microsoft really has or has not had.
    They are getting more and more dangerous. Any upgrade these days can
    produce an avalanche effect that requires replacing entire computer
    systems. That's how I got stuck with a third PC running XP.
    In the IT world, it's like that everywhere.
    I figured that out long ago.
    And won't you?
    Me too. Things have changed drastically. I always figured they would,
    but I don't understand why it always happens at the worst possible time
    for _me_.
    And how well is Windows CE doing against other handheld operating
    The worst part about it is that you spend time memorizing or looking up
    thousands and thousands of objects and classes just to get anything
    done. In the olden days, you just wrote the code yourself. The myth of
    OOP is that it saves time. It only saves time if you don't have to look
    up or memorize the thousands of pre-defined objects that you're expected
    to use. Instead of programming in a language with 100 basic constructs,
    you're programming in a language that calls 10,000 special-purpose
    C++ is fun to play with. It seems so elegant in theory. But when I
    actually have to get things done, I find that I prefer C, because it
    doesn't require that I memorize someone else's library of objects and
    classes, and it doesn't require that I define any of my own. Just a
    couple of variables, closely tied to the hardware, and that's all I
    Yes. See above. Both also have the disadvantage of locking you into a
    Some of them come from classroom directly to MS. Sometimes that's an
    advantage, sometimes it's a liability.

    The biggest problem at MS, though, is that almost nobody has experience
    outside of microcomputers. That is getting to be more and more of an
    obstacle to success.
    And they generally haven't been very successful. Even MSN only still
    exists because Microsoft poured so much money into it, and MSN was a
    real black hole (I don't know if it still is).
    So why aren't you holding Intel just as responsible as Microsoft?
    It will be.
    No, they won't. They'll follow the pattern of all large companies.

    A large part of Microsoft rides on Bill Gates, who is withdrawing more
    and more from the scene, and on Steve Ballmer, who is still there but
    has to retire someday. The management team beyond that isn't too bad,
    but it isn't stellar, either. It'll be like Apple without Jobs, or
    (more accurately) Disney without Walt.
    That may be, but using a PC to watch TV makes no more sense than using a
    TV to do data processing.
    I have. Windows NT was quite nice. So was Exchange, apart from the
    database design.
    Working with big iron is very useful experience. You get a 20-year
    headstart on the PC world, because people in PC-land are only just now
    reinventing what mainframes had 30 years ago.
    Digital was the cat's meow, a wonderful company in its heyday, far ahead
    of the pack. But its success made it enemies, and eventually it made
    mistakes, and now it's gone.
    The demise of MS is a long way off. The golden age, however, has
    already come and gone. I've seen Microsoft's problems for years, and
    eventually those problems are going to catch up with it. And they
    aren't where most people think.
    You're behind the times. NT-based versions of Windows almost never
    require a reboot. My machines run for months at a time without a reboot
    I'm usually too worried about the code to care about the editor.
    Yes. You need to do an extraordinary amount of intensive text
    manipulation to justify getting into vi or emacs. It's rather like
    shell scripts in UNIX: I've always wondered what sorts of people really
    have the time and motivation to write hugely complex shell scripts.
    It's like spending five years learning how to align headlights.
    Mxsmanic, Oct 29, 2003
  8. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Some people are prone to hysteria.

    Exchange itself does not provide virus protection, but you can buy
    third-party products that do (although many of them have caused problems
    with Exchange in the past).
    Yes. I like that.

    I reflect on the fact that my tiny, cheap PC has more horsepower than a
    complete mainframe thirty years ago, and I remember how much could be
    done with mainframes in those days. In those days, in fact, I dreamed
    of what it would be like to have a mainframe of my own: a complete
    multiuser time-sharing system. And now I have exactly that, which is
    very cool.

    UNIX was designed to run efficiently on incredibly slow hardware, like
    the PDP-8. Today, it runs like a dream on just about any hardware you
    care to use, even the oldest and crummiest PCs--because they are all a
    lot faster than the hardware that UNIX was designed for.

    An even greater dream for me would be to see a full Multics system
    running on a PC. I've heard talk about it for years, but nobody has
    actually done it. There's no doubt that it is technically feasible,
    though, and it would run ten thousand times faster than the old
    mainframes that the OS used to require. Multics was years ahead of its
    time in design, but it was dog-slow in consequence on contemporary
    hardware. The fastest Multics single-processor mainframes barely
    reached 2 MIPS (CISC MIPS, but still ...).
    Twenty? You can run 200 users on a 80386 under something like UNIX.
    Multics did it on hardware that was of about the same speed.
    Some are already out of production. Only one model of disk drive still
    exists that is compatible with my NT server, which is six years old.
    It's an HP, though, so it might run forever.
    Well, it definitely runs very cool when the processor is halted. It
    gets up to about 41° C. But I know it will reach 90° C if it is run
    continuously, at which point it usually freezes up until it is cooled
    back down.
    A HLT instruction is fine, and both UNIX and the NT-based versions of
    Windows use that instruction liberally.

    The cheapo consumer versions of Windows are another story--they just
    spin in a loop, even when idle. I don't know what the Mac does (the old
    Mac OS, not OS X, which presumably halts when idle).
    If it was an old consumer version of Windows, that doesn't surprise me.
    He must be unusually smart or paranoid. Most people I know would run
    the file without ever considering the possibility that I might not have
    sent it.
    What does he run on Linux?

    My server is attacked every few seconds, but since almost all traffic
    stops at the router, and what little gets through is relatively
    innocuous, I don't have much trouble. Also, the UNIX server has very
    few ports open or active. The other machines cannot receive external
    traffic at all.

    I have people hitting my Web server a lot, but they are trying to break
    into an IIS server (with FrontPage extensions), and of course I'm
    running Apache, with no trace of FrontPage or its ilk anywhere.
    That means that some things are easier to fix than others.
    Still, some things cannot be stopped anywhere except at the customer
    end. You cannot provide customers with the ability to use active
    content AND prevent them from running malicious content. It's one or
    the other.
    Mxsmanic, Oct 29, 2003
  9. Never messed with FORTRAN, unfortunately.

    CALL EXIT. Oxymoronic program control statement?
    Never worked with such constraints.
    Why should a file remain locked if the only program accessing the file
    is abnormally terminated? The open handle count for the file is 1, and
    the one application that had the handle open went bye-bye, so why keep
    the file locked?
    No, but it's impossible to delete a locked file. And there have been
    instances I've observed where files (or folders) appear to be locked
    for no reason under Doze, even though no running app is accessing
    them; to get rid of them a reboot is required.
    Better them than me; MFC looks like more of a headache than straight
    That is one nice feature of HotMail I wish more services and clients
    would support. PM/Mail allows filtering by addresses in the address
    But I prefer to reward the developer for a particular piece of IP than
    an assimilator of that. Helps to keep technological invention alive
    and well.
    No, but I can't use a keyboard, mouse, 20 inch display, and graphic
    tablet while I'm chatting with someone in the hallway.
    Do you keep your address book, to do list, schedules, and contacts in
    your camera?
    Isn't that similar to saying we don't know what influence the Nazis
    had prior to WWII?
    I've noticed this, and it's one of the reasons I prefer not to follow
    that upgrade path. Plus, the newer ap ps usually add nothing, if
    anything, except for extra memory, processor, and disc space
    This is in the general sense; for IT it would naturally be higher. I
    haven't encountered anyone "new" to my situation since June. The
    average unemployed IT person I'm encountering these days has been out
    of work for 12 months at the time of our meeting. A friend of mine
    knows some one coming up on his second year.
    Until recently, I've never had any difficulty obtaining a job; I've
    had about a 75% success rate at jobs applied for/hired, and that's
    outside of the technology segment. The technology segment has been
    different because all of my previous employers have contacted me, and
    hired me in that manner. Now I'm seeing about a 5% opportunity for an
    interview after an application! The last interview I went for was a
    call back to an application I filled out five weeks prior. This is the
    craziest thing I've ever seen; the only time I've ever been unemployed
    prior to this ordeal, it was for a two week period, and I took a
    "mini-vacation" at the time, which artificially prolonged it.
    Once basic living expenses are met, I'm not motivated by money.

    About three years ago, I worked for a company for three days that was
    working on a product I believed in, but for many reasons I decided the
    company wasn't for me. The president offered to double my salary to
    keep me on staff, claiming that of the programmers he had met in his
    experience, none was more suited for the task than I. I had "left" my
    employer of 10 years for this position, but he knew me well enough to
    know that I would return. He paid me for those three days, counting it
    as sick time.

    Prior to this 10/11 year job, I worked for another company for three
    years, doing some cool stuff with custom designed robots. I left that
    position for the one I was recently laid off from, taking a pay cut in
    the process. I changed jobs not because of the money, but because I
    thought image processing was cooler than programming robots. It worked
    out, because my passion resulted in an 80% increase in pay in a six
    year period, not to mention some other really cool perks and bonuses.
    You and I must have the same karma; two weeks prior to my being laid
    off, my ex-wife had just successfully sued for an increase in child
    I'm not certain, but from what I can tell it seems to be gathering
    Screw that; I'm a very big fan of "do it yourself." The only objects I
    utilize are objects I've rolled myself. I've *never* used (or even
    seen) anyone else's objects that I thought were worth a darned.
    Whatever committee it was that came up with the STL did so too slowly
    for my own taste, thus I rolled my own. Since I don't play well with
    others, I'm not interested in using their code, nor am I interested in
    their using mine.
    Again, screw someone else's library, and roll your own. I think you'll
    be very pleased with the results. Where it *really* shines is when you
    have a structure that has pointers to dynamically allocated arrays and
    the like. Instead of scattering free/delete's throughout your code,
    you place them in one place, and one place only. It allows you to get
    on with coding the project, as opposed to coding the housecleaning.

    As for the stream IO and what not provided by C++, screw that, too. I
    still prefer the stdio/stdlib functions when I'm writing
    command/console ap ps.
    Agreed, and both are reasonably complex, and isolate you from the API
    too much, IMO. Sorta like comparing basic to VB, if I understand
    correctly. Even though the code I write interfaces to an OS specific
    API, I try to write my functions in as generic a manner as possible so
    that moving to another OS wouldn't be that difficult.
    It can't hurt. There was a time when I hated academia almost as much
    as I currently hate Microsoft. I butted heads with one particular
    professor so many times it's unreal, and spent a fair amount of time
    rediculing him. And I learned after about 7 years at my previous
    employer that one of the concepts he taught wasn't as ridiculous as I
    once thought; it would have saved me an incredible amount of time had
    I implemented the technique earlier in my employment.
    It should be interesting to see how things develop from this point.
    So it's dying down? I've only known one MSNer, so I have no idea what
    their service is like.
    I do hold Intel (as well as IBM) for retarding the growth of the
    microcomputer industry. It's just that this thread is about a
    Microsoft product, and the discussion snowballed from there.
    But the cost is still much higher for an OS than a Zipper, which is
    understandable because of the complexity. But if a machine is sitting
    on the shelf for $400, I would like to get a discount by taking the
    machine home without a license for an OS I do not want.
    I thought Billy was moving back into the programming as opposed to the
    business side? I think that would be Microsoft's best move, as my
    greatest respect for the company was built while he was doing some
    hands-on coding.
    For the record, I am not a big television fan. The only TVs I've had
    while living on my own have been ones purchased by various room mates.
    It just so happens that the last room mate left the TV behind when she
    moved out, against my wishes. I got some value out of it by purchasing
    a Playstation to hook up to it, and then later on an Apex DVD player.
    The latter is an important issue because I burn my own CDRs, and thus
    the 'programming' on TV is content that I decide on, not something
    someone else decides for me.

    That being said, I have, of late, developed a minor interest in NBC's
    L&O and CBS's CSI series, although not enough to "camp" for them. I
    had a video capture card in my old computer, which is not supported by
    XP, unfortunately, which was nice. If I wanted to watch a TV show, I
    could have it playing in a small window in the corner of my screen.
    This allowed me to focus on the computer, and occasionally glance to
    the window to see what was being broadcast. If the need arose, a quick
    double-click (which was trivial since I used a Wacom pen with the down
    switch programmed for a double-click) or a press of F12 would toggle
    the window to full screen mode. If for some reason I wanted to record
    what was being broadcast, pressing F11 made the machine function as a
    TiVo of sorts. I got the card because I wanted to capture some video
    my father had made when my son began to walk.

    Video processing on a computer makes a lot of sense; you get much
    better control, and for a lot cheaper, than you would get with a
    dedicated video editing system. This is one of the issues I've spoken
    about with regards to doing things on one platform that has taken
    years to be able to be done on the Windows platform. I saw a friend
    with an Amiga back in '87 doing what I was finally able to do in '97.
    But NT is primarily a design derived from Microsoft's venture with IBM
    on OS/2.
    You would think if that were the case the big-iron boys would be
    jumping head first into the microcomputer arena.
    To bad DR-DOS didn't fare a little better; it breathed a little hope
    into the micro arena for a bit.
    Ok. anything you haven't already mentioned in this thread that you see
    as a problem?
    Eh, I write some quality code <grin>, especially when some of the new
    utilities just begin life, or I decide to implement a new feature that
    requires a decent reengineering of the memory allocation scheme. I'm
    still shocked that in WinXP you can write out of bounds and go
    directly to the BIOS display.
    Agreed, and when you get to the point that you command vi, the ability
    to manipulate code grows *very* respectively. On numerous occasions
    programmers at various previous employers have brought me their source
    code base to make very sweeping changes across all of their files.
    None have ever complained about the results, and have utilized this
    ability on multiple occasions. Several programmers have watched me as
    I've edited my code with this editor, expressing respect for how
    quickly, and how easily, some reasonably impressive changes take
    place. There are some very valid reasons that vi has a camp, but
    again, it's not for everyone.
    I don't know about emacs, as vi has always been able to do everything
    I have ever wanted in a source code editor. Granted, right now it
    lives on my machine as an auxiliary tool as the need for it as a
    primary editor isn't that great, but it could serve as one if I needed
    it to.

    I was never much of a shell scripter, as I prefer compiled solution
    due to efficiency; most of the ap ps I write are going to be run on a
    regular basis. But for a quick and dirty solution, some pretty
    amazing, as well as some pretty mundane, things can be done with a
    shell script. I know on some occasions I've used vi to pass of
    fragments of code to awk scripts and the like. Another benefit to vi
    is that it's ported to almost every platform, and shy of some minor
    differences, they work the same. Add "tags (or ctags)" and "make" to
    the arsenal, and your development environment is portable, even if
    your compiler and debugger are not.

    The most complicated text I ever want to process is program source
    code, particularly C source code. I have yet to see anyone edit their
    source code as efficiently with the editor of their choice as I can
    with vi. In terms of speed, it's like comparing a Masarati to a
    David W. Poole, Jr., Oct 30, 2003
  10. They shut it down to get control over all of the in-house PCs emailing
    the virus back and forth. :-D

    [snipping well justified praise]
    Never had any multics fanatics, so I don't know anything about this,
    either. Would be nice to see.
    We probably could have run more, but that's all we had the need for.
    One PC servicing the needs of 20 users in the business. Microsoft will
    *never* get that concept.

    I'm sure it would have handled more if we needed it; it was never
    *Some* of that HP stuff is built like tanks. I'm a huge fan of their
    older calculating devices.
    Tempermental little thing, huh? :-/
    HLT? That's it! It's been so long since I've been to assembler
    I take it XP Home would HLT as well?
    Probably was; the article was read years ago, and my memory obviously
    isn't that great.
    We both operate in a state of paranoia; I guess that's why we get
    along so well. And I think he's a pretty smart guy; he gives me kicks
    in the right direction from time to time, and I him, so it's a
    mutually beneficial friendship IMO.
    I never have really looked into it, other than to know that everything
    his ISP does is under Linux, except for billing which is done under
    Sounds like the way to go.
    Imagine that. Do you have Apache configured to indentify itself if a
    client requests that? Surprising that people would continue to hammer
    on a non-existent IIS server. Must not be overly-bright "hackers."
    Good point.
    Thank God I have no use for active content. :-D
    David W. Poole, Jr., Oct 30, 2003
  11. Back in the previous market "correction" with prime interest at 21%
    that looks like a great figure. I believe Michigan was approaching 18
    to 20%.
    I don't think it's been much lower that than in Michigan when times
    were good.

    We are a long, long way from that.
    Over qualification.
    I sure would.

    I turned down a very lucrative consulting job just after retiring as I
    was tired of working 12 to 16 hours days, 6 and 7 days a week

    Now those jobs don't exist.

    The software industry is down, but unemployment elsewhere is not all
    that bad...course it could be better too.

    I took the easy way out. I retired and got out while the getting was

    Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
    N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
    Roger Halstead, Oct 30, 2003
  12. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    It seemed stupid, but that's the way it was often done. There was a
    STOP statement, too, but for some reason it was not always used.
    Therefore they must not have ever existed?
    Because the file is in an unknown state, and should not be accessed
    again until it has been restored to a known state.
    See above. It's all about commitment units, transactions, database
    integrity, and similar concepts. Whenever a program writing to a
    critical file aborts, you must take special action to ensure the
    integrity of that file before accessing it normally again.
    You don't want to delete a locked file until you've determined what
    state it is in.
    It is highly unlikely that any file system would lock files at random.
    I agree. I tried it a little bit once, but it took so long to look up
    each object and figure how to use it, for no real gain, that I finally
    just wrote straight C. And with straight C I am far les tied to
    Microsoft or Borland or whoever provides the object libraries, which has
    significant legal and technical implications.
    So you don't care for open source?
    When I'm chatting with someone in a hallway, I don't need a PC.
    No. Why would I?
    It's similar to saying that we don't know what the world would have been
    like without them.
    Same here. But that was before the depression.
    Same here.
    You're the exception to the rule, then. Although I've never even
    negotiated salary myself. It never occurs to me to ask for more than
    the job already pays.
    It sounds like there are millions of people in the same boat this time.
    Well, it has been ten years, so I wouldn't say that it's gathering that
    much steam.
    Nowadays, though, almost anything you write probably infringes on
    someone's patent.
    Until you get the letter from the lawyers, that is, informing you that
    the use of pointers is covered by their patent.
    Microsoft will continue to do well and will remain profitable for some
    years to come, but it isn't and won't be the overwhelming influence that
    its detractors like to claim, and in time it will enter a period of slow
    decline. That decline will accelerate noticeably after the departures
    of Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer.
    I think it is still number two as mass-market ISPs go, after Time
    Warner, but there isn't that much competition once you get past Time
    I used to have it, and it was horrible, at least for someone who
    actually knows something about computers.
    But the discussion is _always_ about Microsoft products, even though
    Intel is in exactly the same position. Why might that be?
    Can you get a discount for taking it home without the built-in DVD
    burner that you don't want, or without the free month of AOL that you
    don't want?
    He is, supposedly, but that alone amounts to a net withdrawal from the
    company to a certain extent.
    He's a geek at heart, and about the only CEO I've seen who can handle
    questions on anything, from long-term business strategies for the entire
    corporation to the reasons behind the choice of a particular hash
    algorithm in secure login routines. A lot of CEOs don't even understand
    the business their companies are in; this CEO actually has read the

    Ballmer is not a technician but he is very good at business management
    and marketing, and he is very extroverted and motivated, which was
    necessary with Gates being such a geek.
    I haven't watched any broadcast or cable TV in many years. I do have a
    TV, but only for watching DVDs; it is not set up to receive broadcast
    programs and has no cable connection or antenna.
    It requires a lot of hardware, though.

    I used to be interested in video, but I got tired of dealing with analog
    recordings, especially since any editing involved multiple copies and
    generations, and degradation of the already-poor images was unavoidable.

    Digital recording is available now, but I find photography more
    interesting. Ironically, I still use film for photography, because the
    final quality is generally higher.
    NT was written from scratch, after IBM refused to work on a new OS with
    a GUI. IBM was still convinced that a CLI was best. The rest was
    history. Needless to say, Microsoft was right, and IBM was wrong.
    Well, there are still a lot of mainframes around, and there were never
    as many mainframe people as microcomputer people in the world, since
    mainframes are much more rare, so many people who grew up with
    mainframes are still working on them. I did jump to microcomputers,
    though. I probably could have stayed with mainframes and ended up in
    almost exactly the same position, though.

    Mainframes are extraordinarily discreet. However, when travel agents
    prepare tickets and reservations for you on their computers at the
    travel agency, you can be sure that their PCs are not talking to a Linux
    server somewhere. Ditto for things like ATMs, and for just about all
    batch processing, which includes billing systems, taxes, invoicing,
    inventory, etc.
    Digital Research wasn't as well managed, alas!
    I'm not sure. Microsoft is far too microcomputer-oriented. That isn't
    too bad as long as they stay on the dekstop, but it hurts them badly in
    the server arena. They don't know how to build secure, reliable,
    mission-critical servers and applications, and often they cannot be
    told. They still think in terms of the desktop environment. Their
    attitude is still, "Well, if it crashes, you just reboot." They don't
    understand that servers must never crash, and must not be rebooted.
    They believe that a corrupt database should just be restored from a
    backup. They don't understand that you cannot idle 3600 office workers
    for twelve hours while you restore a 100-gigabyte database from tape
    because the server found corruption and crashed. They don't see how
    losing "a few tranactions" made against the database before it crashed
    can cost a company millions of dollars. These are the things that are
    hurting them.

    So, while they'll do well on the desktop, without a big change of
    attitude their success in serverland will necessarily be limited.

    NT was a breath of fresh air because it was designed by people with
    experience on much larger systems. Still, it has been corrupted over
    time by the desktop influence. Current NT-based operating systems
    aren't as close to mainframes as the original NT was, as far as I can
    Can you? I've never seen it.

    Unless you are writing a driver, this should not be possible. Drivers
    must be trusted by the OS, so there isn't much that can be done about
    Mxsmanic, Oct 30, 2003
  13. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Unemployment during the Great Depression was 25%.
    I tried ... but I made the mistake of investing my retirement in the
    stock market, where everyone said it would be "safe."
    Mxsmanic, Oct 30, 2003
  14. My heavens; that's unreal!
    So is employment that transient in Michigan?
    The article I read was definitely local in nature. Our area is
    *rarely* this devoid of jobs. Until the last year, I've never had
    difficulty obtaining employment.
    Perhaps, but that still doesn't help my financial situation. Wal-Mart
    won't even hire me.
    I've been blessed (or cursed) that in the past the majority of jobs
    I've held were "fun". They had their problems, but for the most part
    the rewards were far more than financial. I'd rather have a job doing
    something I enjoyed for $15-20 a year than doing something I hated for
    That's one of the reasons I left my penultimate job.
    Again, though, the region I live in used to be dominated by textiles,
    and a fair number of company headquarters were located in this burg.
    Given the folks in DP at those headquarters, and those HQs folding up
    shop, there is an abundance of unemployed DP people around. Average
    unemployment time from what I can tell is 12 months, and most are not
    returning to positions in IT.
    Must be nice, but unfortunately I don't have that luxury.
    David W. Poole, Jr., Oct 30, 2003
  15. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Multics is the big brother of UNIX; even the name of UNIX is a play on
    words referencing Multics. Multics was years--perhaps decades--ahead of
    any other operating system, and it was probably the most secure
    general-purpose timesharing system ever invented (even today, it still
    holds that distinction, although nobody is running it now). Just about
    everything UNIX does, Multics did better. If you've used both, UNIX
    looks like nothing so much as a stripped version of Multics.

    The only problem with Multics was that it was too far ahead of its time,
    especially with respect to hardware. It required a special mainframe
    system to run, and even on that, it ran very, very slowly. Today it
    would run like the wind even on a PC, but back in the early 1970s, it
    cost millions to get it to support even a few dozen users.

    Many, _many_ modern OS concepts were inherited from Multics. UNIX
    especially shows the influence, of course, but bits of Multics pop up
    everywhere, it seems, for those who remember the real thing.
    For reasons I've already explained. Their love affair with the desktop
    gets in the way. Servers do not need fancy GUIs, and operating systems
    that spend 90% of their time driving a GUI tend not to make very good

    One of the things I like _best_ about UNIX is that I can do it all from
    a command line. I have to shake my head at people who install UNIX (or
    especially Linux), only to try to make it look just like Windows. I
    guess they've never run actual production servers. The last thing you
    want on a production server is a need to interact with a GUI. I can
    manage UNIX from anywhere with just a simple console window. I cannot
    manage Windows servers that way, and this alone can be a deciding factor
    in which OS to use for a server.

    I remember having to start up PC Anywhere over a dial-up just to enter a
    few commands on a Windows server. Pretty ridiculous when you compare it
    to a quick SSH session with a UNIX server.
    All the HP calculators I've had have been indestructible.
    The fan is what frustrates me, not the microprocessor. I'm eagerly
    awaiting diamond heat sinks, now that flawless diamonds can be
    synthesized for about $5 a carat.
    Sheesh ... what else would a halting instruction be called? XYZZY?
    Yes. It's based on NT, just like all versions of XP, 2000, and NT
    itself. And they all halt any of their processors that are not
    dispached to an active process.
    ISPs don't really do much, so "everything his ISP does" may not amount
    to much exposure.
    Actually, I don't remember. I haven't played with the config in quite a
    while. It just works.
    There are a lot of people out there with infected IIS systems that try
    to attack other IIS systems automatically.
    There is an annoying tendency on the Web to use Flash animation for no
    good reason, and there are few Web sites today that will work without
    Mxsmanic, Oct 30, 2003
  16. The newspaper article explicitly stated that this was in relation to
    our region.
    The problem is, I don't *want* to retire; I loved what I did. And
    supposedly the majority thought I did a pretty good job at it.
    "Playing" allowed me to transform the way two businesses performed
    their tasks, allowing them to survive longer than their competition,
    transforming the expectations of their customers, and creating jobs
    (at least temporarily) in the process. That I got paid for such a
    blessing was just icing on the cake, and perhaps with good fortune
    I'll be able to repeat this job creation/industry transformation cycle
    a few more times in my lifetime.
    David W. Poole, Jr., Oct 30, 2003
  17. A lot of things seem that way at times.
    I didn't state that; I only stated that I never worked with such
    I'm not wanting to access the file; I'm wanting to delete it. File
    deletion places the file into a very known state.
    Agreed. One file, with one app accessing it. I *never* saw this under
    Xenix, so I *assume* that the rest of the *nix world functions in a
    similar fashion.
    The only app accessing the file has aborted.
    Agreed, and using the task monitor to see what apps would be accessing
    these files doesn't yield any light on the situation. It is an
    inexplicable situation to say the least.
    No disagreement there.
    Open source has it's place. I'm not for strict commercialization, nor
    am I for strict freedom of source. I wouldn't expect Microsoft to give
    away it's source code to windows, but I wouldn't complain if they did.
    I appreciate hobbyist who are willing to share their passion with the
    world, and I am usually more than willing to share source if asked,
    although my development efforts of late really aren't worth sharing.
    But there are some things I would not be willing to share. If I were
    to begin pushing the previously mentioned UI enhancement, I wouldn't
    give that away as open source; at least, not initially. For an
    application that did something as trivial as renaming MP3 files based
    on tags or what not, I would probably think differently.
    No, but it's nice to be able to check your schedule for appointments
    and the like. There have been times when people have asked me
    technical questions that have required extremely detailed responses,
    that I've already answered for someone else before through email or
    usenet, or that I know of a particular URL that answers their
    question. I jot their email address into the PDA. When I get home, I
    cut-and-paste the address from the PDA's desktop client into an email,
    and then cut-and-paste the relevant content from where ever into the
    body of the email.
    Exactly; that's the task of a PDA.
    Agreed, but I don't think they improved the quality of life, albeit
    America may not have been as prosperous without them.
    I understand, but it still doesn't help matters any. :)

    Are you unemployed as well? If so, I seem to have missed that in our
    An issue that peeves my ex-wife to no end. :)
    I believe that to be the case.
    Yup. I thought I read a few years ago that some company was trying to
    patent iteration.
    Well, Gates is about five years older than I am, if I understand
    correctly. Hopefully he'll take his pile and go home early.
    Sounds reasonable.
    Given my perception of the quality of Microsoft's other offerings, MSN
    is one of those things that I never even considered.
    In this OT thread (which started in parallel to other similar threads
    by a Microsoft drone here in it's been Microsoft
    related because that's where the group has gone. It's also my belief
    that in spite of the ignorance (I perceive) that the average Microsoft
    customer holds, the average Intel customer holds even more. Plus, the
    processor is not as "visible", and there are less alternatives, than
    there are in respect to the OS. I just consider myself fortunate that
    I've seen what Motorola can do in comparison to Intel. It's sad,
    because the decision of the powers at IBM to select these two
    components have done a great deal to retard the growth of the
    microcomputer industry. That people signed on because brand name
    recognition is a testimony to the intellect of the average
    microcomputer user, and the power of advertising.
    The free month of AOL isn't an issue anyway, as the mail man seems to
    love to stuff those damned CDs into my mailbox every other day. At
    least when they sent you floppies you could reformat the bastards. I
    wished AOL would ship their software on either open session CDRs, or
    on CDRWs, but I digress. AOL gives that free month away because they
    are hard to get out of once you sign up.

    In the case of the built-in DVD burner, in my case I purchased a
    machine with a CD burner. It wasn't an issue for me because the same
    circumstances that smoked the mobo/power supply in the old PC also
    took out the burner I had. If it wouldn't have been for the burner
    issue, I would have built a machine piece-meal. I really didn't need
    the hard drive that came in the machine, either, but sooner or later I
    would have.
    Agreed, but the company functioned better, and produced better
    products, IMO, when he was more hands on in the programming
    department. I harbor a more respect for Gates as a programmer than I
    do as a business leader.
    That's why I believe he should be more hands-on. If I were in his
    place, I would think the best benefit would be to be able to sling
    code at whatever he wanted to work on, as opposed to negotiating
    business contracts.
    Make sense. How long has Ballmer been on the scene?
    I definitely understand. :)
    Or time. I would set my jobs up to run in batch while I slept. There
    were a number of times that the PC would just be finishing up when I
    awoke the next morning. :)
    That's why I didn't consider it until it became a possibility to do on
    a PC. The irony of it is that people saw what I was doing in 1998, and
    were saying "That's COOL", and a few friends followed my lead. But the
    sad thing is I watched a friend of mine doing the same thing on his
    Amiga in 1987 or 1988.
    Understandable; the choice between film or digital is dependent on the
    final results you wish to obtain. Neither is the perfect solution for
    all cases.
    The similarities between the two, trivial as they may be, are
    interesting. Given Microsoft's other ventures into the OS arena, I
    can't fall for the line that NT was written from the ground up.
    Probably so. Though not entirely related, it's interesting to observe,
    at least locally, there is still as many positions listed in the local
    paper for AS/400 coders in this area (at least until last year) as
    there were two decades ago. :-/ I don't recall ever seeing any
    positions listed for big iron, though.
    I understand.
    Never followed them that much. I was hopeful that MPM/86 would have
    had more support.
    An interesting observation; thank you much for the elaboration. Most
    are certainly issues I've not considered in my own "micro-centric"
    world. Server up time is one area I know is important. As of yet I
    haven't had any experience or call for transaction processing,
    although I believe I have a minor grasp of it's importance.

    But then again, I also believe desktop up time to be important. :)
    Good point.
    My experience with NT has been very limited; I have some minor
    experience with NT 4.0 server, W2K server, and XP Home.
    Oh yeah. Tracked that bug down *real quick like*. :-D
    It wasn't a driver; it was a typical simple user app. I wish I would
    have kept that version of the source code now; quick reboot!
    David W. Poole, Jr., Oct 30, 2003
  18. Would it be safe to say that Multics is to Unix what Unix is to OS/9?

    Agreed. The sysadmin responsible for our Linux box would leave his
    desk, walk a maze through the plant to get to the box, and use the KDE
    to add new users. Blew my mind. Missed the concept entirely. Another
    reason we have to thankful for Mickeysoft.
    PC Anywhere? That concept just never flew with me, nor did the "Hydra"
    concept. Although I did toy with VNC for a short period of time, as it
    would allow me to control the Windows boxes with my PDA.
    Really; great technology!
    It's just been so long since I've dropped to assembler it's getting
    more difficult to remember all of those mnemonics.
    Cool (pun intended).
    No, but it is sitting there 24/7 ready for anyone to pound on.
    I understand; fire and forget.
    Ya gotta love the quality of the products. :)
    It blows my mind, as most of the time I'm surfing web sites I'm
    looking for textual content. Unless you reconfigure your browser to
    disable image loading (or you use Netscape or Mozilla) you have to
    wait for the images to load before the page renders. Given my
    financial situation, I am not able to afford broad band at this time,
    and I really don't need it. I've seen some sites, particularly
    musician's, that you can't even navigate without Flash installed.
    That's a waste, IMO, if all you're looking for is tour dates.

    People like this stuff, and then complain because the internet is so
    slow! Such is life, I guess. :)
    David W. Poole, Jr., Oct 30, 2003
  19. Steve Young

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Who told you that? And why did you believe them?
    Ron Hunter, Oct 30, 2003
  20. Steve Young

    Mxsmanic Guest

    Unlock it first, then delete it.

    The idea of the lock is that it takes a deliberate, exceptional, and
    (often) privileged operation to unlock it. This prevents accidental use
    or deletion of files that may have been corrupted by a program that
    UNIX has no provisions for this type of file protection. It's one of
    the shortcomings of UNIX. It has some simple safeguards against certain
    types of concurrent access, but that's it.
    So you don't know what state the file is in. Typically you need to
    restore the file, then roll it forward with all journaled updates, then
    back out the last uncommitted updates. Then you can unlock it.
    A lot of companies worry too much about source code. Source code was
    long available for mainframe operating systems, and it didn't cause too
    many problems. Complex software systems are unlikely to be stolen or
    modified by users, even if the users have source.
    I can't remember the last time I had enough appointments to require a
    I guess writing it down on a piece of paper or just taking their
    business card wouldn't do?
    I just don't carry that information at all with me. I carry a wallet
    with ID and about $20, and that's it. (Although I do wear a reporter's
    vest with a lot of _camera_ gear in it.)
    I've been unemployed for years. Since the start of the depression.
    I think his wife has already encouraged him to do this, which is why he
    isn't the workaholic that he used to be.
    It did function better, but those times are gone.

    A turning point was the first layoff. That's always a bad sign,
    irrespective of the economic climate.
    If I were in his place, I'd be spending the money.
    I don't know ... a long time.
    A lot of them are filled through networking. Often everybody knows
    People who have worked only on microcomputers typically have no concept
    of what's involved on large, production, mission-critical, multiuser
    systems, such as mainframes and large servers.

    It's one thing to make a mistake in your code and watch your system
    crash. It's quite another to know that the same disconnection message
    is simultaneously appearing on 4000 other terminals in three states.
    TP is one of the most important sectors of IT today, but it's almost
    invisible compared to microcomputers. Most people know what they see,
    and while everyone has seen a PC, hardly anyone has ever seen a
    mainframe. Even when you use an ATM, it's nothing more than a PC
    (nowadays, it's usually running Windows NT Workstation, or the
    equivalent--they used to run OS/2). However, it's connected to a
    mainframe. Mainframes are shadowy things that are always hiding in the
    NT is a completely different OS from the consumer versions of Windows.
    They resemble each other in only the most superficial ways. NT, XP, and
    2000 all have the same code base, and it is exceedingly solid.

    Just looking at the code, you can see a world of difference between
    Windows 95 and Windows NT, and Windows NT is by far the better written
    operating system.
    From a user-mode application? Which one?
    If so, it's a serious bug, which you should send to Microsoft.
    Mxsmanic, Oct 30, 2003
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