Win7: Upgrade or Clean Install?

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Mark H, Jun 29, 2009.

  1. Mark H

    Mark H Guest

    I'm using Win 7 x64 and initially installed by the Upgrade method. The only
    area I had any difficulty with was networking... my adapter would "drop out"
    randomly and Win7 would attempt to reset it leading to a computer lock up. I
    won't go through all the details in this post, but let's just point out that
    one of the suggested repairs may be to Clean Install Win7.

    So, that is what I just accomplished.
    What changed?
    Well, neither the PCI or USB adapter drops out anymore, but even though
    the device setting enables IPv6, the function is not in use. My wireless
    connection states Excellent connection, yet downloads are severely limited
    in speed. I've tried the MS driver and the vendor's driver. Neither improve
    the situation for either network card.

    As a side note, the upgrade had no problems incorporating my coprocessors
    and audio devices. The clean install could not figure out what they were and
    subsequently could not download any drivers. When I did install the drivers,
    I was provided warnings they were not signed! This included WHQL nVidia
    drivers, which are signed.

    Bottom line:
    Yes, there is a difference between an Upgrade and a Clean Install and the
    later is not necessarily better as I'm still having networking issues.
     
    Mark H, Jun 29, 2009
    #1
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  2. Mark H

    Carlos Guest

    Mark,
    Me and others prefer clean install but before that you always have to do
    your homework and clearly identify your hardware parts, whether add-ins or
    embedded chipsets.
    Then get the drivers and only after then do the clean install.
    But there is still hope, please describe your hardware more thoroughly and
    you will surely find help here or in the web.
    There are WHQL Win 7 drivers for a great list of hardware.
    Carlos
     
    Carlos, Jun 29, 2009
    #2
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  3. Mark H

    Mark H Guest

    Thanks Carlos, and I agree... there is a lot of good help in here.

    My comments were relating my experience between the two installs. I used
    Win7 drivers (where available) and found it odd that there would be a
    difference in the final responses.

    No one, on LinkSys, Win7 forums or here have solved the "drop out" issue
    with Wireless USB adapters. (It's not limited to LinkSys.) Win7 seems to
    handle USB port power and networking differently than before and some (not
    all) have what can best be described as a lack of power to the adapter (PCI
    or USB.)

    On my machine, I finally overcame it (somewhat) by turning off a feature
    within the device driver that allowed it to minimize power during non-use.
    (Note: This didn't work if Win7 settings for Power Save mode were disabled
    instead.) This doesn't work for others.

    After the clean install, IPv6 doesn't work. The mode is turned on for the
    device, but when the properties of the device are viewed, it is not working
    and ipconfig reports it as off. I've tried more than one network card. And,
    download rates after the clean install are about one-quarter to one-half of
    what they were when I did the upgrade. There's probably some Group Policy,
    or other that needs to be configured, but that's not going to work for Win7
    Home.

    So, there appear to be some networking issues that didn't make sense.

    Machine:
    Win7 RC
    Phenom II 940 @ 3.6 Ghz (Overclocked 20%, stable as a rock)
    M4N72-E
    8 GB DDR2
    9800 GTX+
    Linksys WMP300N
    Linksys WUSB600N
     
    Mark H, Jun 29, 2009
    #3
  4. Mark H

    Carlos Guest

    Mark,
    I may be wrong here but is IPv6 of any use right now?
    Aren't we all still on IPv4 for Internet access?

    BTW, my HP 530 notebook (Win7 7100 x86) with embedded Intel wireless has
    absolutely no connectivity issues.
    My older son has also this cheapo USB wireless adapter
    (http://www.topcom.net/downloads/letter/S/115.html) working trouble-free with
    his Win 7 x64.

    Carlos
    P.S.: Still bragging about your overclock? Howdya cool it down? I wanna do
    the same with my Phenom II 920 :)
     
    Carlos, Jun 29, 2009
    #4
  5. Mark H

    Mark H Guest

    Simple piggy back fin cooler. Nothing else.
    (I actually had it up to 3.8 Ghz, but it would crash on stress tests and
    temps were steadily above 50C under no load. Every day stuff ran fine. It
    will easily go farther, but not without some more expensive cooling. :)
    Mostly I mention it because someone else may have found a link to the
    overclocking and whatever problem I'm experiencing.

    Regarding the dropout with USB adapters, like I said, it's pretty random.
    In fact, after my clean install, the USB adapter "dropped out" again in the
    middle of downloading files (so it was busy, but the computer may have tried
    to sleep), and when Win7 attempts to reset it (Win7 thinks it is working and
    should be asleep, apparently the reset fails) then it crashes the OS.
    Sometimes the crash is a very slow death where everything slowly quits
    responding, and other times, it's fast with a Bug Check of 0x124.

    The other two computers in the house with the same card are just fine.
     
    Mark H, Jun 29, 2009
    #5
  6. Mark H

    Mark H Guest

    PS. I mention the IPv6 because it is aligned differently than it was in
    Vista. Whether in use, or not, it had "connectivity" and I'm looking for
    differences to find a cause for the random drops.
     
    Mark H, Jun 29, 2009
    #6
  7. Mark H

    Carlos Guest

    Mark,
    In local area connection (adapter properties) I have:
    IPv4 connectivity: Connected to the Internet
    IPv6 connectivity: Without access to the Internet
    (translated from Spanish into English)
    Carlos
     
    Carlos, Jun 29, 2009
    #7
  8. Mark H

    Mark H Guest

    That's what I have. Good to know I'm not unique and I can disregard IPv6.
    Thanks for your help!

    I'll be looking into the slow transfer speeds this evening. Maybe a new
    thread to focus the topic.
     
    Mark H, Jun 29, 2009
    #8
  9. Mark H

    Carlos Guest

    Mark,
    Mine is a Realtek network chipset (not wireless) embedded in the mobo. So it
    is not an exclusive wireless issue.
    Regarding download speeds the also depend on where you are downloading from.
    Have you tried using a download manager?
    I use the old freeware flashget (www.flashget.com). Latest version dates
    back to 2007 but it works in Win 7 x64.
    This program makes several connections (up to 5) to the download site, thus
    increasing the download speed. Handy program also for torrents.
    Carlos
    P.S.: Gotta shave and go to work now!
     
    Carlos, Jun 29, 2009
    #9
  10. Mark H

    Mark H Guest

    Again, I'm pointing out a change.
    This desktop unit has not been altered or moved since I did the clean
    install of Win 7 and gets excellent reception (270 Mbps "possible") but is
    lucky to transfer at 54 Mbps.

    Maybe I should detail what is happening:
    Upgrade:
    No change in transfer rates from Vista Ultimate x64.
    USB adapter randomly drops out with it's internet connection while local
    network remains. During this time, Win 7 is attempting to restore the
    connection by resetting the adapter. This results in a lockup that requires
    the power off button to recover. (No blue screens.)
    Move adapter from hub to back of computer and adapter performance
    improves. Only drops out once an hour instead of five. (Power supply issue
    through the USB port.)
    [Did Vista limit transfer rates through USB ports? Found each USB is
    limited to 10%-20% through Device Manager. Win 7 repeatedly tells me my
    device could perform better if it were connected to a 2.0 USB port... it is
    and the driver is up-to-date.]
    Tried removing drivers and reinstalling either MS driver (Broadcom) or
    Linksys driver. (Linksys makes either Broadcom for US, or Atheros for EU)
    No improvement in dropouts.
    Since drop outs appear to be related to "sleep mode" or "power saving", I
    turn both off.
    When Win7 functions are disabled, there is no change in drop outs.
    When driver functions to "Minimize Power Consumption" are turned off,
    there are less drop outs. (These options are not available in the MS
    driver.)

    Clean Install:
    Transfer rates drop by 75%. If multiple downloads are in progress, they
    all seem to have equivalent download speeds which add up to more than a
    single download speed (as if throttling is occurring for the downloads.)
    Connection is excellent (five bars, 270 Mbps possible)
    USB adapter still randomly drops out and crashes the OS. Occassional blue
    screen: 0x124, which confirms a "sleep" issue with the adapter.

    Research on the web finds that the problem is not just a Linksys issue. Nor
    is it limited to x64.
    (I may have the units wrong on the transfer rates, but I'm doing this from
    memory at work.)
     
    Mark H, Jun 29, 2009
    #10
  11. Mark H

    Mark H Guest

    An article written in 2006 for Vista may actually address the data transfer
    "throttling" that I'm seeing:
    (And, maybe this will help some others.)
    If your connection from a Vista machine appears slow or hung, here are some
    steps to isolate the cause:

    a.. First, make sure that your firewall and router can support window
    scaling. Some devices from Linksys, Cisco, NetApp, SonicWall, Netgear,
    Checkpoint, D-Link were reported as having problems with window scaling.
    (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/934430) (especially, TCP High Performance
    Test) provided by Microsoft to determine your gateway device's compliance.
    b.. Second, check with the manufacturer if a firmware update has been
    issued for your device that can fix the problem. Replace the problematic
    device or update the firmware as suggested by the manufacturer. If the
    router cannot be replaced or if it the device is remote (e.g., a firewall of
    your ISP or corporation)
    c.. Third, If the problem still persists, you can restrict autotuning by
    running "netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=restricted" from the
    command prompt. We have found that restricted mode will often allow some of
    the benefits of autotuning with a number of problematic devices.
    d.. Lastly, if all else fails, in order to disable this feature, run
    "netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled".
    e.. (In order to reenable autotuning, run "netsh interface tcp set global
    autotuninglevel=normal".)
    Odd that the device would work in Vista and not in Win 7, but hey, it's a
    direction to look!
     
    Mark H, Jun 29, 2009
    #11
  12. Mark H

    Mark H Guest

    "netsh interface tcp set global autotuninglevel=disabled"
    This had an amazing improvement on internet file transfers!
    Went from 54 Kbps to 253 Kbps transfer speed.
     
    Mark H, Jun 29, 2009
    #12
  13. Mark H

    Carlos Guest

    Carlos, Jun 29, 2009
    #13
  14. Mark H

    tsperling Guest

    Hi, Mark.

    This is certainly interesting, I am about to try and give my slooow
    connection a dose of that steroid treatment - will it require a reboot
    afterwards or is it effective right away?


    Tony. . .
     
    tsperling, Jun 30, 2009
    #14
  15. Mark H

    Mark H Guest

    Correction:
    normal sets a small window, with a maximum scaling factor of 8
    disabled sets a fixed window, but it's fairly large, no scaling
    restricted sets a window, but is still scalable in some situations
    highlyrestricted sets a window, but is still scalable in less situations
    experimental sets a window, but attempts to scale everything for the
    maximum

    (router and computer have to be able to handle both the window and
    the scaling)

    The article Carlos points to gives a little more information. Google was my
    friend on this one since it allowed me to find some other article on this
    topic that was related to my problem, but the solution was for Vista's beta.
    It was a good find.
     
    Mark H, Jul 1, 2009
    #15
  16. Mark H

    tsperling Guest

    Alright - this doesn't seem to be a router that is doing any scaling that
    has to be adjusted for - it is just a plain slow connection, as I expected
    because I had the same numbers in XP x64. I tried all the values (arguments;
    parameters) and the variations were small, except perhaps for
    'experimental', which seemed to halve the transfer rate.

    I didn't expect much success, but when I hear stories like this I have to
    try it.

    I will try out Carlos's suggestion for a DownloadManager. FlashGet, I think
    it was - i shall need that!


    Tony. . .
     
    tsperling, Jul 1, 2009
    #16
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