Will Telstra Clear also be forced to unbundle

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Vista, May 22, 2006.

  1. Vista

    Vista Guest

    OK, telstra clear have their own telephone lines in Wellington, Kapiti and
    parts of Christchurch so the don't have to use Telecoms network to provide
    services to people in this areas. I believe. Will they also be forced to
    share this infrastructure with competing ISPs, as it doesn't seem fair that
    telecom is being forced to open up their network, when their competitor can
    continue to have a monopoly of their own netowrk. I believe Telstra Clear
    they provide fibre optic line, so potentally if this was opened up, we could
    get even better internet in the areas it has been installed, than over the
    old copper telecom lines.
    It would also be good if the mobile services were unbundled so ISPs can set
    up 3G services at an affordable price.
    Vista, May 22, 2006
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  2. Vista

    thingy Guest

    While Clear probably wont be, I believe it should be.


    thingy, May 22, 2006
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  3. Vista

    Kris Kirk Guest

    Interesting point. I hadn't actually considered this before. I think it
    would be unfair to force TelstraClear to unbundle without some sort of
    compensation for the capital they have invested. The difference with
    Telecom is that by the time they became a private company, the
    infrastructure was already set up.
    Kris Kirk, May 22, 2006
  4. Vista

    thingy Guest

    But Telecom bought the network so I see no difference between Telecom
    buying a piece of cable in the ground and Clear buying new cable and
    installing it in the ground. The argument is to open up a large
    privately owned network but not a smaller privately owned network.

    The problem I see is this allows Clear and others to cherry pick
    Telecom's most profitable customers but giving Telecom and others no
    similar capability on Clear's network.

    As a friend of mine says "just another telco" I can understand people
    describing Telecom as telescum because of the way they have been
    treated, but to be honest I have found my treatment by Clear only
    marginally better than how I was treated at Telecom....

    So Telecom's customers will (I assume) enjoy more choice, lower costs
    and better service as Telecom will have to listen to customers, pity
    Clear customers wont enjoy the same thing.

    Now if we look at Citylink, they are happy to act as the backbone and
    any company can buy fibre through them and get on with it, so why not
    the others?

    Of course if the Government has any sense it will write the Legislation
    as easily enabling such a feature later on if required.


    thingy, May 22, 2006
  5. Vista

    shannon Guest

    Its probably not that practical, the network is fiber to the master kerb
    cabinets, then rf coax to the cable modems, plus the two twisted pairs.
    Its much more of a distributed system and there really isn't a place
    where ADSL would fit into the system, that is not already served by the
    TV rf cable.

    It would be possible to put mini DSLAMs in kerb cabinets and run an isps
    own backbone network to them I suppose, but the Telecom copper is much
    easier to connect to, and already terminates at all the same houses, no
    matter whether it is still used or not.

    ADSL is a technology designed to retrofit to an old style telephone star
    network, not the sort of hybrid that TC run.
    shannon, May 22, 2006
  6. Vista

    Vista Guest

    ADSL maybe where technology is at the moment, as it is able to put new life
    into the copper lines, but in 5 years things may have changed a lot.
    Telstras network which is newer and more advanced could be the future into
    providing really fast speeds greater than 100MB with technology that is
    deveoped in the future. The governemtn only thinks of now, but not the long
    term future.
    Vista, May 22, 2006
  7. Vista

    shannon Guest

    Yes we agree Clear is just another crap bastard telco.
    And we agree it would be unfair if TelstraClear had an equivalent copper
    star network local loop and the same ruling did not apply.
    However the TelstraClear pairs only go from fiber feed kerb cabinets
    with the rf coax, not from an exchange. Its simplistic to go "Well they
    do intarweb too so why can't other isps put their own dslams on TCs
    copper pairs". Given a choice of feeding their own backbone to either
    TCs street cabinets or to Telecom exchanges, I know what I'd choose.
    The vast majority of premises connected to TC have Telecom local loop
    access although it might not be connected.
    The vast majority of premises connected to Telecom do not have TelstraClear.
    However I expect TC will be one of the main suppliers of alternative
    adsl connections now since they are already in the fiber backbone biz.
    shannon, May 22, 2006
  8. Vista

    thingy Guest

    But will it be any cheaper? so we have a duopoly instead of a monopoly,
    I suspect not.


    thingy, May 22, 2006
  9. Clear doesn't have a physical network that goes into every property in NZ.

    Have A Nice Cup of Tea
    Have A Nice Cup of Tea, May 22, 2006
  10. *SNIP*

    Now, I could be wrong, but doesn't EVERY house that's wired up to the
    phone network have a connection to Telecom? They may not be using it, but
    damned sure it's there.
    The reason TCL won't be unbundled is that they don't have a natural
    monopoly on the last mile. They break Telecom's monopoly to a small
    proportion of the country (25%?), but they aren't the only connection
    available to even their customers. Anyone who wants to switch just cancels
    with TCL and calls up Telecom to get their phone line enabled again, and
    people do do it.

    Maybe Vista is confused about the nature of TCL's network? It's not like
    it's the only connection available to the people who use it, they're tied
    to Telecom too.
    Matthew Poole, May 22, 2006
  11. Vista

    shannon Guest

    No, we have a competitive environment that will operate on the Telecon
    That will most likely include TC offering connections on that Telecom
    copper, and as every TC cable modem customer also has access to the
    Telecom network, all the providers on the Telecom copper will compete
    with the cable modem network on price, speed, contention ratio, quality etc
    shannon, May 22, 2006
  12. Vista

    Don Hills Guest

    Clear is doing what any business would by treating its customers just a bit
    better than Telecom treats theirs - in other words, just well enough to stop
    them changing suppliers. If non-Clear suppliers suddenly start offering
    better service and connection plans, Clear will ramp up its service and
    Don Hills, May 22, 2006
  13. Vista

    thingy Guest

    No but it has enough.....by the same argument Telecom does not either,
    just a % difference.


    thingy, May 22, 2006
  14. Vista

    thingy Guest

    I dont, clear cut it off, but getting a new pair would not be hard of
    With bundling in effect it is, I cannot keep cable and dump Telstra's
    land line, which I hardly use, I would go mobile, cheaper for me.


    thingy, May 22, 2006
  15. *SNIP*
    They physically disconnected Telecom's cable to your house?
    Matthew Poole, May 22, 2006
  16. Vista

    thingy Guest



    thingy, May 22, 2006
  17. Vista

    shannon Guest

    So what is your point ?
    shannon, May 22, 2006
  18. Vista

    David Guest

    Which plan? Most TC cable plans no longer require you to have the phone
    line as well.

    David, May 22, 2006
  19. No. Telecom's maintenance policy has been that they don't replace
    lines to non customers.
    For example, the Telecom pole outside our house was replaced about a
    year ago. The copper Telecom lines to us and other TC customers was
    not replaced.

    An interesting statistic, that pole used to feed five houses with
    Telecom services. It now feeds one Telecom & three TC customers (plus
    three elec) ! Poor old Telecom had to pay for the pole replacement
    however :)
    Maybe there is an argument that because there is existing competition
    in Wgton & Chch, Telecom should not have to unbundle there :-(
    Malcolm Moore, May 22, 2006
  20. Vista

    shannon Guest

    I'm sure they have thought of that.
    Its a good reason for Telstra not to offer adsl on Telecom pairs in the
    areas served by their cable, but Ihug and the others will still be
    pretty keen to compete.
    shannon, May 22, 2006
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