Wifi Extender to replace Powerline

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by Davey, Jun 24, 2014.

  1. You see, lies.

    Probably passes if you only plug one unit in, or don't pass any data or
    something like that.

    http://www.ban-plt.org.uk/EN55022.php
     
    Brian Gregory, Jun 27, 2014
    #61
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  2. Is Youtube the only source of valid evidence then? Doesn't your own
    experience of actually using something count as evidence of how it
    performs?

    For what it's worth, my own experience of how much interference these
    mains networking devices generate is that they don't generate enough
    to interfere with a portable radio unless you put it less than a metre
    away from the device itself. Using the same radio, I get as much
    interference at about the same distance from a broadband router or a
    flat screen telly, and elsewhere in the room it picks up broadcasts
    without any problems.

    Rod.
     
    Roderick Stewart, Jun 27, 2014
    #62
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  3. Davey

    Ian Jackson Guest

    I think what you're saying is despite all the information to the
    contrary (please DO have a look at some of the links on
    http://www.ban-plt.org.uk - especially
    http://www.ban-plt.org.uk/emcia.php), that the threats and problems of
    interference are vastly exaggerated, that in practice interference
    doesn't really happen, and there is no justification for enforcing
    stringent EMC standards.
     
    Ian Jackson, Jun 27, 2014
    #63
  4. Davey

    Martin Brown Guest

    WOW! Is you tube and a crank site all the evidence you have to offer?
    Seems highly unlikey since he uses the net whilst listening to music and
    streaming some of it to his server.
    No it shows yours...

    13MHz, 25.6MHz, 74MHz, 150MHz, 325MHz, 408MHz are potentially vulnerable
    to this sort of broadband hash or low harmonics thereof.

    http://www.ukaranet.org.uk/basics/frequency_allocation.htm

    And although it isn't officially protected according to that list I am
    pretty sure that Cambridge uses 81.5MHz (certainly they used to).
     
    Martin Brown, Jun 27, 2014
    #64
  5. I think that is a pretty accurate statement.

    Power line domestic networking tends to use the same bands that DSL uses
    or even higher.

    It doesnt carry far



    --
    Ineptocracy

    (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
    lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
    members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
    rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
    diminishing number of producers.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, Jun 27, 2014
    #65
  6. Davey

    Graham. Guest

    The units themselves perhaps do.

    Perhaps if domestic house wiring was Pyro instead of T&E it wouldn't
    radiate as much
     
    Graham., Jun 27, 2014
    #66
  7. Davey

    Ian Jackson Guest

    One difference is that DSL is balanced, and doesn't radiate much,
    whereas your mains PLT isn't, and can radiate quite a lot. Also, the PLT
    spectrum extends further HF than even sooper-dooper DSL. I believe some
    extends even to 600MHz (or at least it is being planned).
     
    Ian Jackson, Jun 27, 2014
    #67
  8. So how much data were you transferring at the time?
    How far apart where the two ends of the PLT link?

    Ignoring things like this is exactly what enables the PLT manufacturers
    to claim the pass the standards.
     
    Brian Gregory, Jun 27, 2014
    #68
  9. Brian Gregory, Jun 27, 2014
    #69
  10. In the case of the ones I tried, it hardly carried at all.

    I realise my use of these things didn't constitute an exhaustive
    series of scientific experiments under all possible conditions, just
    room to room in a fairly typical domestic situation, or in other words
    exactly the type of usage they're designed and sold for. I probably
    did more than most people would bother to do by holding a portable
    radio near them to see what would happen, and found nothing untoward,
    therefore no reason to fret.

    Rod.
     
    Roderick Stewart, Jun 27, 2014
    #70
  11. Davey

    Jim Guest

    I hope their roof falls in.
     
    Jim, Jun 27, 2014
    #71
  12. Davey

    Jim Guest

    Completely misses the point that mains wiring
    was never designed or intended to carry RF signals.
     
    Jim, Jun 27, 2014
    #72
  13. Davey

    Martin Brown Guest

    Yes. At my parents in Manchester I can see very ancient kit showing its
    makers name and number and still on basic WEP - so trivial to hack.

    Round here I'd say about half are on kit so old it sits on channel 11
    but the encryption is WPA. They must be taking a hit on contention.
     
    Martin Brown, Jun 27, 2014
    #73
  14. I.e. from here to the moon..
    They use it to control the Mars Rover you know...



    --
    Ineptocracy

    (in-ep-toc’-ra-cy) – a system of government where the least capable to
    lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the
    members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are
    rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a
    diminishing number of producers.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, Jun 27, 2014
    #74
  15. Davey

    Davey Guest

    Not a problem.
    How do I test for signal strength? I have no smartphones, so no
    smartphone "apps" (I hate that term), and no test gear. My current IP
    camera, which I am prepared to replace, and my Thompson TG585
    modem/router do not communicate well. I don't use other Wifi, so I have
    no idea if the problem is the camera or the router (or both).
    That I can do. I need to communicate with the garage, which, as I
    say, is some distance away, and out of line-of-sight. Images of
    foil-hatted black-helicopter-avoiding nerds come to mind, though.
    Now your are out of my knowledge range, talking of '5GHz PTP' units. And
    as for £150, if they don't work, then I would have spent £150 forno
    benefit. The TP-Link Powerline pair cost me £19 inc. shipping.
     
    Davey, Jun 28, 2014
    #75
  16. A computer with a built-in wireless adaptor running a software
    application called "InSSIDer" is probably the simplest way. A laptop
    or netbook is best to show variations from place to place of course,
    but even a fixed desktop PC with a built-in adaptor can show how the
    signal varies as a result of changes made elsewhere.

    If you're using a wireless to ethernet bridge to receive the signal
    for a PC that doesn't have built-in adaptor, it'll probably have some
    sort of indication you can access within its setup pages. There's
    usually a function called "Site Survey" to show the signals available,
    showing signal strength, type of security etc for each signal.

    Rod.
     
    Roderick Stewart, Jun 28, 2014
    #76
  17. Davey

    Kraftee Guest

    I think now is the right time to jump in.

    2 points

    1 Every single complaint about RF 'pollution' (which I know about or have
    been asked to investigate) has proved to be some other electronic device,
    i.e. an electronic water softener and the like.
    2 By putting in place more and more wall wart power supplies there is an
    increase of the possibility that one of these will produce an 'out of band'
    RF signal, causing problems to DSL signals and also shortwave.

    If the OP doesn't have any problems whilst using the PLA then don't worry
    about any old foamy complaining about 'interfering' with their 'hobby
    radio'. If it wasn't PLAs' then they would be chuntering on about something
    else causing a problem, like sunspot cycles and terrestrial weather

    If the OP insist that they must move to wifi not only will they have to buy
    multiple units they would also have to use high gain directional aerials
    (over hill could require a repeater station, is there any safe electrical
    supplies at this point? Placing the aerials higher may work but then you'd
    have to use a sturdy mast or 3 (as even a small movement would interfere
    with the signal) but even then it would be weather dependant as any
    reasonably heavy rain fall will attenuate the wifi signal and so is not
    suitable for anything security related (I know of 3 such links, all used
    commercially, and they all suffer weather related problems, but it's the
    only way to get any reasonable service to them

    I know this won't help the old 'foamies' emotional state but as already
    stated it is a (technical) hobby, unlike CB radio, and so they should work
    towards improving their own equipment (this is one of the reasons they are
    supposed to have passed a semi, technical exam in order to get their
    licence).

    I know this won't make me any friends and probably I will get a flaming or 2
    but it's the real world.

    So it's ignore the old 'foamies' or waste a lot of money only to find the
    only really secure way to do what they want is to use the PLA.
     
    Kraftee, Jun 28, 2014
    #77
  18. Davey

    Kraftee Guest

    True but any length of wire can carry RF signals, it all depends on the
    length.......
     
    Kraftee, Jun 28, 2014
    #78
  19. Davey

    Ian Jackson Guest

    You haven't been reading the rest of thread, have you.
     
    Ian Jackson, Jun 28, 2014
    #79
  20. Neither was telephone wiring.

    Rod.
     
    Roderick Stewart, Jun 28, 2014
    #80
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