Why Pentium?

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Talal Itani, Jul 3, 2006.

  1. Talal Itani

    Jure Sah Guest

    John Doe pravi:
    What exactly makes me a troll here?

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    Jure Sah, Jul 21, 2006
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  2. Talal Itani

    Jure Sah Guest

    kony pravi:
    You might want to read up on the fact that 9600 baud on computers is no
    longer 9600 baud and not only in multitasking systems. It has to do with
    the point that all modern OS's CPU time scheduling mechanisms are
    incompetent. It's not like 9600 baud is something the hardware could not
    manage, it's the point that the software's triggers and events misfire
    by design.
    Yes, it could. The theory was tested and the result prooven. Read the
    "Sythesis OS" whitepaper for details.

    In short, it is possible to make an OS's CPU time scheduler
    automatically detect how much CPU time and when a generic program needs
    to process it's input signal at the actual data rate.
    Modern computers have more than enough CPU power to provide for all the
    needs simultaneously, it's all about the OS not doing things flexibly
    enough.

    If you want a good example of the catastrophic state that that CPU time
    scheduler in Windows is in, use a program that counts how much CPU time
    it gets, run only it and Windows, then wiggle your mouse around the
    Start button area and see the user program suddenly getting way more CPU
    time than before.

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    Jure Sah, Jul 21, 2006
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  3. Talal Itani

    Jure Sah Guest

    John Doe pravi:
    Citations?

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    Jure Sah, Jul 21, 2006
  4. Talal Itani

    Jure Sah Guest

    kony pravi:
    I second that.

    The packaging for fans usually comes with preprinted text in the
    following sequence:
    [ ] Fluid bearing
    [ ] Sleeve bearing
    [ ] Ball bearing

    ....the sequence is always used to indicate worst to best. Fluid bearings
    die soon, Sleeve bearings sometimes develop rattling, Ball bearings are
    the best choice.

    At work, I service very high quality high pressure pumps. They contain
    only the best everything and they use double ball bearings everywhere.


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    Jure Sah, Jul 21, 2006
  5. Talal Itani

    Jure Sah Guest

    John Doe pravi:
    Time to read that wikipedia link you provided, mr. bitchy.

    Quote: "Fluid bearings, also called fluid dynamic bearings"

    It's a marketing term.

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    Jure Sah, Jul 21, 2006
  6. Hey Kony, since you seem to know so much about fans... what the hell is the
    deal with those chipset coolers that have flakey fans? Some of them spin
    at >7Krpm and last 6 months max. Is it even possible to make such small
    fans move enough air and still last?

    They're usually "buried frame" type and easily replaced but impossible to
    find, even from distributors. I've been able to find a 45mm diameter
    "bury-frame" fan for my GPU cooler at Directron but the 30mm versions
    usually used on chipset coolers are just not available anywhere. Do you
    know why? Any ideas on where I might find a "quality" version?... or do
    the mfrs prefer to sell with a hunk of metal for the extra $$?
     
    George Macdonald, Jul 21, 2006
  7. Talal Itani

    kony Guest

    It seems you're suggesting computers don't work at all,
    since they can and do processes 9600 baud signals as well as
    a myrid # of others, given I/O peripherals.


    You're out of your mind.
    On the one hand you discount the hardware itself, then turn
    around and cite OS.

    It seems you are on a quest for a solution without a
    problem.

    "All the needs"?
    You lack a very basic understanding of the situation. No OS
    change makes a CPU, bus, etc, etc, faster than technically
    possible. When the needs exceed the bandwidth, processing
    ability, etc, there's no OS change that will matter. Trying
    to tweak things to get a few percent improvement would
    always be a minimal improvement realative to the
    generational hardware gains.

    That's supposed to happen, not a catastrophe but correct
    function. You don't WANT something you're NOT doing to take
    as much time as something you actively ARE doing, ELSE there
    is a provision for that, the higher priority assignment.
     
    kony, Jul 21, 2006
  8. Talal Itani

    Rod Speed Guest

    Have fun explaining hard drives which dont anymore.
     
    Rod Speed, Jul 21, 2006
  9. Talal Itani

    Rod Speed Guest

    You rub his nose in one of his stupiditys.
     
    Rod Speed, Jul 21, 2006
  10. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    In other words, you cannot provide a citation.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835185006

    Sony fluid dynamic bearing 120 mm case fan. Has a 15,000 our
    lifespan.

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16835186008

    Arctic Cooling fluid dynamic bearing 120 mm case fan. Comes with a
    six-year warranty.

    Panasonic is a major manufacturer of fluid dynamic bearing fans, for
    many years.
    More like teaching you a lesson.

    I won't hold my breath waiting for citations you will never provide.
     
    John Doe, Jul 21, 2006
  11. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    I guess this troll also considers "sleeve bearing" to be
    a marketing term.


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    Subject: Re: Why Pentium?
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    John Doe pravi:
    Time to read that wikipedia link you provided, mr. bitchy.

    Quote: "Fluid bearings, also called fluid dynamic bearings"

    It's a marketing term.

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    John Doe, Jul 21, 2006
  12. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    A troll who doesn't even know what a "citation" is.


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    Subject: Re: Why Pentium?
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    John Doe pravi:
    Citations?

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    John Doe, Jul 21, 2006
  13. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    That makes two trolls with no citations.
    Is that supposed to be a citation?
    If you're so sure of yourself, provide a citation.
    The best hard drives use fluid dynamic bearings.
     
    John Doe, Jul 21, 2006
  14. Talal Itani

    Mxsmanic Guest

    That's only a little over 18 months.
     
    Mxsmanic, Jul 21, 2006
  15. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    Sorry, that should read "150,000 hour"
     
    John Doe, Jul 21, 2006
  16. Talal Itani

    hdrdtd Guest

    A little over 17 years? that should be long enough..
     
    hdrdtd, Jul 21, 2006
  17. Talal Itani

    kony Guest

    In other words, it is common knowledge and you can easily
    find this yourself via:

    Google or any mainstream search service
    Usenet search
    Any fan manufacturer that makes lifespan projections

    There are NO fan manufacturers that claim fluid bearing fans
    have longer lifespan and most claim only (roughly) 50% of
    the lifespan of dual ball bearings.

    Which citation would you prefer? There are SO many, so
    let's get your foolish arguments out of the way first so I
    can provide the most applicable to dispell your
    misunderstanding.


    15,000 hour?

    While that IS what the product page says, it's funny!

    The funny part is you are clueless about fans. If you'd had
    a clue, you would have realized that 15,000 hours is an
    incredibly LOW lifespan for a fan, that the lifespan
    projection for that product was supposed to be 150,000
    hours.

    They can make this questionable lifespan rating because of
    two factors:

    1) Assume ideal operating condition. IE- low heat
    2) They base it on the low RPM. Usually fan manufacturers
    spec a family of fans, including those with much higher RPM,
    while the higher RPM fans have a lower actual lifespan than
    the lower RPM of the same model. Similarly, any crap fan
    can be taken out of context, selectively focusing on the
    lowest RPM model and then suggesting a longer lifespan than
    it actually has.


    That doesn't mean it has a longer lifespan, it means they've
    overpriced it enough to offset any potential RMA issues. Do
    you realize just how little a sleeve fan costs in volume?
    It is trivial to them to replace it free, the shipping cost
    is multiple times as much, but putting interest on their
    profit, they can cover that too. Further, six years is
    lower than the expected lifespan of a system.

    Yes, I'd already mentioned them as an exception. They do
    NOT rate their fluid dynamic bearing fans as having a higher
    lifespan than their dual ball bearing fans.

    BTW, do us all a favor and stop with the nonsense about
    "fluid dynamic bearings", as they are SLEEVE BEARINGS and
    any other term is a senseless marketing gimmick.


    You have enough ego to get your system's cooling into a bind
    but nowhere near enough experience to teach.

    Don't you mean that you're just ignorant?

    Seriously, you started a disagreement about fans yet you
    think we need to provide a spec when you could have easily
    read it yourself from any of the major manufacturers if you
    had ever been to their websites and read the datasheets.

    If it were new information, it'd be "news", but the only
    thing new is that we became aware how ignorant you are about
    fans. Anyone and their brother has known dual ball bearing
    fans are at least as long lived, sometimes MUCH longer
    lived.

    These products you cite haven't even existed long enough for
    you to pretend to have any experience with their actual
    lifespans. It is impossible for you to have experience with
    them, whether their projections actually hold true. So
    you're an armchair quarterback who read marketing blurbs,
    believed them, and didn't ever bother to test anything
    yourself.
     
    kony, Jul 21, 2006
  18. Talal Itani

    kony Guest


    We aren't burdened with countering anyone's ignorance, it
    would never end. This is another example of common
    knowledge, that which any competent engineer or system
    integrator has know since the beginning and believe me,
    they'd love to shave some $ off the costs if there weren't
    the detractions, especially when sleeve bearing fans have
    significantly lower high pitched noise.

    So you can't be bothered to find any information yourself,
    only a product listing? Do you believe all product
    listings? How about a $15 600W PSU with one of those fluid
    dynamic blahblahblah in it, are those good too because they
    wrote some lofty specs?

    Sorry, there comes a point where you have to have some
    experience instead of just repeating marketing by gypsy
    companies selling PC parts they dont' even make.

    What might we Google for a citation? How about;

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ball+bearings+sleeve+bearings

    VERY FIRST GOOGLE HIT,
    http://www.currentsolutions.com/knowledge/ballbearingvssleevefans.htm
    excerpt:

    "The chart indicates that when temperatures ranged from 25
    to 60 degrees C, ball-bearing fans on average outlasted
    sleeve-bearing fans by 50 percent. When temperatures
    exceeded 700 degrees C, ball-bearing fans ran for 45,000
    hours, while sleeve-bearing fans became inoperable. Yet,
    when the ambient temperatures were relatively low,
    sleeve-bearing fans lasted as long as ball-bearing fans."

    Since any normal system will be in that 25-60C range, we can
    conclude this is one citation.

    SECOND HIT,
    http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=193
    excerpts;

    "Ball bearings... most important for our situation - long
    life" "With proper lubrication sleeve bearings will provide
    performance and service on par with that of their ball
    bearing counterparts. If left alone for a long time, and run
    at higher temperatures they will fail before the ball
    bearings will."


    ------------------

    So far we have the first two hits Google found. The trend
    continues with practically EVERY link that discusses both
    types. So it seems it is [entire world] vs [you]

    So tell us, is it you [the one who doesn't make fans, hasn't
    actually tested the fans you linked for they haven't even
    existed as long as their spec'd lifespan, and doesn't even
    use proper terms for sleeve bearing fans] that knows about
    fans, or it is major website reviewers, fan manufacturers
    themselves, engineers, and just about every possible 3rd
    party?

    Sorry but you are a lone advocate of them for lifespan
    improvement and have no evidence besides a line of text
    versus 'site after 'site after 'site.
     
    kony, Jul 21, 2006
  19. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    As expected, the troll provides lots of babbling but no citations.


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    Subject: Re: Why Pentium?
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    In other words, it is common knowledge and you can easily
    find this yourself via:

    Google or any mainstream search service
    Usenet search
    Any fan manufacturer that makes lifespan projections

    There are NO fan manufacturers that claim fluid bearing fans
    have longer lifespan and most claim only (roughly) 50% of
    the lifespan of dual ball bearings.

    Which citation would you prefer? There are SO many, so
    let's get your foolish arguments out of the way first so I
    can provide the most applicable to dispell your
    misunderstanding.


    15,000 hour?

    While that IS what the product page says, it's funny!

    The funny part is you are clueless about fans. If you'd had
    a clue, you would have realized that 15,000 hours is an
    incredibly LOW lifespan for a fan, that the lifespan
    projection for that product was supposed to be 150,000
    hours.

    They can make this questionable lifespan rating because of
    two factors:

    1) Assume ideal operating condition. IE- low heat
    2) They base it on the low RPM. Usually fan manufacturers
    spec a family of fans, including those with much higher RPM,
    while the higher RPM fans have a lower actual lifespan than
    the lower RPM of the same model. Similarly, any crap fan
    can be taken out of context, selectively focusing on the
    lowest RPM model and then suggesting a longer lifespan than
    it actually has.


    That doesn't mean it has a longer lifespan, it means they've
    overpriced it enough to offset any potential RMA issues. Do
    you realize just how little a sleeve fan costs in volume?
    It is trivial to them to replace it free, the shipping cost
    is multiple times as much, but putting interest on their
    profit, they can cover that too. Further, six years is
    lower than the expected lifespan of a system.

    Yes, I'd already mentioned them as an exception. They do
    NOT rate their fluid dynamic bearing fans as having a higher
    lifespan than their dual ball bearing fans.

    BTW, do us all a favor and stop with the nonsense about
    "fluid dynamic bearings", as they are SLEEVE BEARINGS and
    any other term is a senseless marketing gimmick.


    You have enough ego to get your system's cooling into a bind
    but nowhere near enough experience to teach.

    Don't you mean that you're just ignorant?

    Seriously, you started a disagreement about fans yet you
    think we need to provide a spec when you could have easily
    read it yourself from any of the major manufacturers if you
    had ever been to their websites and read the datasheets.

    If it were new information, it'd be "news", but the only
    thing new is that we became aware how ignorant you are about
    fans. Anyone and their brother has known dual ball bearing
    fans are at least as long lived, sometimes MUCH longer
    lived.

    These products you cite haven't even existed long enough for
    you to pretend to have any experience with their actual
    lifespans. It is impossible for you to have experience with
    them, whether their projections actually hold true. So
    you're an armchair quarterback who read marketing blurbs,
    believed them, and didn't ever bother to test anything
    yourself.
     
    John Doe, Jul 21, 2006
  20. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    This troll apparently really does not know the difference between a
    sleeve bearing and a fluid dynamic bearing.


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    We aren't burdened with countering anyone's ignorance, it
    would never end. This is another example of common
    knowledge, that which any competent engineer or system
    integrator has know since the beginning and believe me,
    they'd love to shave some $ off the costs if there weren't
    the detractions, especially when sleeve bearing fans have
    significantly lower high pitched noise.

    So you can't be bothered to find any information yourself,
    only a product listing? Do you believe all product
    listings? How about a $15 600W PSU with one of those fluid
    dynamic blahblahblah in it, are those good too because they
    wrote some lofty specs?

    Sorry, there comes a point where you have to have some
    experience instead of just repeating marketing by gypsy
    companies selling PC parts they dont' even make.

    What might we Google for a citation? How about;

    http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ball+bearings+sleeve+bearings

    VERY FIRST GOOGLE HIT,
    http://www.currentsolutions.com/knowledge/ballbearingvssleevefans.htm
    excerpt:

    "The chart indicates that when temperatures ranged from 25
    to 60 degrees C, ball-bearing fans on average outlasted
    sleeve-bearing fans by 50 percent. When temperatures
    exceeded 700 degrees C, ball-bearing fans ran for 45,000
    hours, while sleeve-bearing fans became inoperable. Yet,
    when the ambient temperatures were relatively low,
    sleeve-bearing fans lasted as long as ball-bearing fans."

    Since any normal system will be in that 25-60C range, we can
    conclude this is one citation.

    SECOND HIT,
    http://www.frostytech.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=193
    excerpts;

    "Ball bearings... most important for our situation - long
    life" "With proper lubrication sleeve bearings will provide
    performance and service on par with that of their ball
    bearing counterparts. If left alone for a long time, and run
    at higher temperatures they will fail before the ball
    bearings will."


    ------------------

    So far we have the first two hits Google found. The trend
    continues with practically EVERY link that discusses both
    types. So it seems it is [entire world] vs [you]

    So tell us, is it you [the one who doesn't make fans, hasn't
    actually tested the fans you linked for they haven't even
    existed as long as their spec'd lifespan, and doesn't even
    use proper terms for sleeve bearing fans] that knows about
    fans, or it is major website reviewers, fan manufacturers
    themselves, engineers, and just about every possible 3rd
    party?

    Sorry but you are a lone advocate of them for lifespan
    improvement and have no evidence besides a line of text
    versus 'site after 'site after 'site.
     
    John Doe, Jul 21, 2006
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