Why Pentium?

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Talal Itani, Jul 3, 2006.

  1. Talal Itani

    kony Guest

    It doesn't matter, rather that the applications being tested
    must have codepaths optimized for the generation of
    processor tested. In many cases, they don't have the AMD
    optimizations which is a reason for a workstation type use
    of these apps to benefit from use of a P4, but
    generalization about performance levels must factor for this
    as well, that the buyer MUST also buy the software.

    Different software will need assessed on it's own, not
    vaguely assumed to have similar performance per CPU
    architecture.


    The operating system itself is not at issue, either of these
    alternatives are plenty fast enough for the OS. Rather the
    applications are the key and no OS optimization is enough
    without the app optimization.

    There are several factors, and it's not that Intel's
    offerings aren't a good alternative, only that the specific
    use must be weighed against the performance/_total_price of
    each.
     
    kony, Jul 20, 2006
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  2. Criminy, Korny, this is an English NG. What the hell
    language was that? If you'd slow down and stop spewing,
    people might know what the hell you're trying to say.

    *TimDaniels*
     
    Timothy Daniels, Jul 20, 2006
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  3. Talal Itani

    Rod Speed Guest

    So does my P3 boxed fan. Still using it in the PVR, running 24/7
     
    Rod Speed, Jul 20, 2006
  4. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    So do fluid dynamic bearing fans, but longer.
     
    John Doe, Jul 20, 2006
  5. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    The subject is not that big of a deal, either. The original poster
    could have avoided cross posting.
     
    John Doe, Jul 20, 2006
  6. Talal Itani

    Jure Sah Guest

    John Doe pravi:
    Are those those that don't really have a bearing but only a pocket of
    fluid taped in?

    They last about a month as far as my experience goes. The upper side of
    the bearing is unprotected, which means that surrounding dust (attracted
    by the electric charge of the fan engine) can have direct contact with
    the fluid. Once there, the dust turns the fluid glue-solid and the fan
    comes to a sticky stop, until you remove the fluid with some kind of
    ethanol-based solution. Then it spins again, but with no real bearing.

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    Jure Sah, Jul 20, 2006
  7. Talal Itani

    Jure Sah Guest

    kony pravi:
    The vast majority of software developers does not use a language that
    would allow for these specific optimizations. The use of the
    optimizations arises from the way their compiler works.

    For example the GNU C Compiler can compile the software for any
    enstablished CPU of choice.. software is generally compiled for the
    Intel 386 processor, with added optional optimizations for MMX and the
    various SSEs. Similar applies for how Microsoft compiles it's software
    (okay, short of the DirectX drivers). Yet all this software appears to
    perform better on AMD processors.
    That only really applies for benchmarking software and certain
    performance-critical code here and there. Nothing to do with general
    performance.

    Beside CPUs are primarily built to perform well with software compiled
    with a specific compiler. Compilers are only adapted to utilize special
    features of various CPUs.
    And your knowledge of software construction is nearing -20% of what it
    should be to make that assessment.

    Programs depend heavily on the code present in the OS, thus it is
    important that the OS is built for speed and compiled to the proper
    architecture.

    Also, you would probably like to know that in Linux, once the OS of
    choice compiled to the proper architecture is installed, practically all
    consequent software installed is also of the exact same architecture
    (either selected from available sources or automatically compiled for
    the exact hardware the Linux system is running on).
    The AMD processors I was looking at were cheaper than the Intel ones
    I've compared the performance to.


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    Jure Sah, Jul 20, 2006
  8. Talal Itani

    Jure Sah Guest

    kony pravi:
    Nearly all modern OSs are rather unsuitable for signal processing. Their
    internal system for sharing CPU time amongst programs is inefficient
    when you run processes that need a lot of CPU in a fluid manner
    alongside those who need little. That's why today you have buffers
    everywhere you look.

    Your 5 settings of Windows priority will simply not let you OR your
    system provide all programs with the optimal share of CPU power. You'd
    need the OS doing that for you automatically if you wanted it to work.

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    Jure Sah, Jul 20, 2006
  9. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    Sounds like a troll, considering you pretend to have experience with
    them. They are called "fluid bearings" or "fluid dynamic bearings".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_bearing
    My guess is your "experience" is fantasy, or you bought a cheap fan,
    or maybe you tried to lubricate it before your problems started, or
    maybe you just couldn't find one with a blue LED.

    Whatever.
     
    John Doe, Jul 20, 2006
  10. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    In Windows XP, it's 6 settings.
     
    John Doe, Jul 20, 2006
  11. Talal Itani

    Jure Sah Guest

    John Doe pravi:
    Tell me, is everything that you disagree with a troll to you?
    Sounds like quite what I had in mind.
    Or maybe you're looking for valid excuses to proove yourself right. All
    I'm saying is that the fluid bearing is unsuitable for a microchip
    cooling fan and thus do not last long. I have both the experience and
    the theory to proove it.

    I have seen these fluid bearings in many CPU fans, graphic card fans and
    some slot fans. The general characteristics are always the same: The
    tiny circular circuit board that manages the magnets that keep the fan
    spinning is set directly atop the bearing, the axis is led trough a hole
    in the circuit board, the fluid bearing being located inside the plastic
    casing supporting the tiny circuit board. The underside of this plastic
    casing is taped over with a factory sticker to seal the fluid inside the
    bearing. The axis is terminated on this side with a small metal ring
    embedded in a shallow gap near the end of the axis, which is floating in
    the fluid and is there to prevent the axis from being pulled out of the
    bearing vertically.

    The upper side of the bearing is thus not sealed shut, as that would be
    impossible given the point that the axis needs to be able to rotate
    freely. Air travels along the fan and at any point along the fan's
    construction where the airflow is slowed down, dust accumulates. The
    tiny circuit board's electrical contacts are bare, exposed and charged
    with a ~12V electric charge, which is powering the fan. Dust is
    attracted by the ionization and tiny dust particles find their way right
    to the axis. Very slowly, over time, enough dust accumulates there and
    along with the effects of the heat, the fluid turns into a glue-like
    substance, preventing the axis from moving. At this point it is very
    hard to rotate the fan even with your fingers and sometimes when it
    cools off it becomes stuck solid.

    Sometimes, you don't even need that as the glue on the back sticker no
    longer seals it completely shut and that combined with the heat of the
    cooling apparatus causes the fluid to leave the bearing.



    --
    Primary function: Coprocessor
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    Jure Sah, Jul 20, 2006
  12. Talal Itani

    Jure Sah Guest

    John Doe pravi:
    In any Linux or UNIX it is 20 settings (it's called "Nice", not
    "Priority" tho). And in any real-time OS there are no settings as the OS
    fine-tunes the priorities automatically at the precision of the CPU clock.

    --
    Primary function: Coprocessor
    Secondary function: Cluster commander

    http://www.thought-beacon.net

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    We are the paragon of humanity. You may worship us. From afar.

    01010010 01100101 01110011 01101001 01100100 01100101 01101110 01110100
    01000010 01000001 01010011 01001001 01000011
     
    Jure Sah, Jul 20, 2006
  13. Talal Itani

    kony Guest

    "Fluid dynamic bearing" is in itself just a nonsense
    marketing term. They all fall into one of two categories,
    ball bearing or sleeve. We can further divide into dual
    ball, ball + sleeve, and certain types of sleeve designs but
    overall the type of fluid bearings used in PC fans is low
    quality rather than the high quality sealed bearings used in
    hard drives.
     
    kony, Jul 21, 2006
  14. Talal Itani

    kony Guest


    Fluid bearing fans are usually very low quality junk. A
    very few manufacturers make decent ones, like Panasonic,
    Papst, Comair, a few Sunons and Deltas are passible.

    Any serious design needing longest fan life uses dual ball
    bearing fans if at all possible. Intel's fans are this, but
    intel spec'd for a particularly small center hub and to
    achieve that the bearings themselves were downsized from
    what the manufacturer normally uses (for better results).

    The manufacturer didn't randomly choose larger bearings on a
    whim, they knew more about fans than Intel.
     
    kony, Jul 21, 2006
  15. Talal Itani

    kony Guest

    Nonsense.

    They may be sub-optimal, but we're not doing one hardcoded
    task on a PC, the versatility is important too. Unsuitable
    in this context would not apply as they certainly can and do
    get the job done.
    Yes they're not "as" efficient as they could be, but that is
    the nature of a multipurpose system. It couldn't work any
    other way and be versatile enough, and inexpensive enough,
    to do so many jobs.


    Sure it will, most programs don't need more than a *normal*
    priority level, they can sit in the background. If the
    workload is so high that multiple realtime activities can't
    be done, this is a case that would be a problem for any type
    of hardware design, not just a PC.
     
    kony, Jul 21, 2006
  16. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    kony <spam spam.com> wrote:
    Says who?
    That's backwards. Fluid dynamic bearings last many times longer than
    ball bearings.
     
    John Doe, Jul 21, 2006
  17. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    A troll who needs to provide citations instead of babbling.


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    Subject: Re: Why Pentium?
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    John Doe pravi:
    Tell me, is everything that you disagree with a troll to you?
    Sounds like quite what I had in mind.
    Or maybe you're looking for valid excuses to proove yourself right. All
    I'm saying is that the fluid bearing is unsuitable for a microchip
    cooling fan and thus do not last long. I have both the experience and
    the theory to proove it.

    I have seen these fluid bearings in many CPU fans, graphic card fans and
    some slot fans. The general characteristics are always the same: The
    tiny circular circuit board that manages the magnets that keep the fan
    spinning is set directly atop the bearing, the axis is led trough a hole
    in the circuit board, the fluid bearing being located inside the plastic
    casing supporting the tiny circuit board. The underside of this plastic
    casing is taped over with a factory sticker to seal the fluid inside the
    bearing. The axis is terminated on this side with a small metal ring
    embedded in a shallow gap near the end of the axis, which is floating in
    the fluid and is there to prevent the axis from being pulled out of the
    bearing vertically.

    The upper side of the bearing is thus not sealed shut, as that would be
    impossible given the point that the axis needs to be able to rotate
    freely. Air travels along the fan and at any point along the fan's
    construction where the airflow is slowed down, dust accumulates. The
    tiny circuit board's electrical contacts are bare, exposed and charged
    with a ~12V electric charge, which is powering the fan. Dust is
    attracted by the ionization and tiny dust particles find their way right
    to the axis. Very slowly, over time, enough dust accumulates there and
    along with the effects of the heat, the fluid turns into a glue-like
    substance, preventing the axis from moving. At this point it is very
    hard to rotate the fan even with your fingers and sometimes when it
    cools off it becomes stuck solid.

    Sometimes, you don't even need that as the glue on the back sticker no
    longer seals it completely shut and that combined with the heat of the
    cooling apparatus causes the fluid to leave the bearing.



    --
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    Secondary function: Cluster commander

    http://www.thought-beacon.net

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    01000010 01000001 01010011 01001001 01000011
     
    John Doe, Jul 21, 2006
  18. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    A troll who doesn't know what a fluid dynamic bearing is.


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    Subject: Re: Why Pentium?
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    "Fluid dynamic bearing" is in itself just a nonsense
    marketing term. They all fall into one of two categories,
    ball bearing or sleeve. We can further divide into dual
    ball, ball + sleeve, and certain types of sleeve designs but
    overall the type of fluid bearings used in PC fans is low
    quality rather than the high quality sealed bearings used in
    hard drives.
     
    John Doe, Jul 21, 2006
  19. Talal Itani

    John Doe Guest

    I knew this troll was going to have a tough time with my simple
    correction.


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    John Doe pravi:
    In any Linux or UNIX it is 20 settings (it's called "Nice", not
    "Priority" tho). And in any real-time OS there are no settings as the OS
    fine-tunes the priorities automatically at the precision of the CPU clock.

    --
    Primary function: Coprocessor
    Secondary function: Cluster commander

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    We are the paragon of humanity. You may worship us. From afar.

    01010010 01100101 01110011 01101001 01100100 01100101 01101110 01110100
    01000010 01000001 01010011 01001001 01000011
     
    John Doe, Jul 21, 2006
  20. Talal Itani

    kony Guest


    Anyone that's had a few years experience dealing with failed
    fans.

    There is no reputable source to back up your claim. Even
    the premium fan manufacturers themselves acknowledge
    otherwise so you're either quite ignorant and stupid for
    drawing a conclusion while ignorant, or just trolling.
     
    kony, Jul 21, 2006
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