Why don't camera reviews cover the data connection to the PC?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Pat Cheney, Dec 25, 2008.

  1. Pat Cheney

    Guest Guest

    no, it's 500 ma per port.
     
    Guest, Dec 28, 2008
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  2. Pat Cheney

    Sjouke Burry Guest

    And does that explain why you need 5 wires??

    My reading skills must be impaired...
     
    Sjouke Burry, Dec 28, 2008
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  3. Try formatting a USB Hard Disk in Windows XP and using it. Most likely
    you will see a recyle bin added, and possibly a System Volume Information
    directory. Under some circumstances, Windows does add extra files.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Dec 28, 2008
  4. That's why I said "may". It's something to be aware of when using USB
    devices.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Dec 28, 2008
  5. Pat Cheney

    Pat Cheney Guest

    Hi John,
    OK. I agree. You took copius time and effort to help so, correspondingly, I
    should, as the very least as a courtesy, and, rightfully so, as you said,
    since it might happen again, and, since this is usenet, I owe a full and
    complete answer to any future readers.

    Here's what I did just now.

    1. I visited the h2testw site - but it's in Deutsch:
    http://www.heise.de/software/download/ddwl50539

    2. I downloaded and extracted h2testw.zip version 1.4
    Luckily, next to the "liesmich.txt" was an English "readme.txt".

    3. I read the readme.txt which, interestingly, says not to use USB
    extension cords (which may be relevant to a prior discussion on this
    thread). It also says to try multiple USB ports (especially those in the
    back of the PC).

    4. I'll summarize the readme.txt below (just to prove IRTFM):
    H2testw is an single executable that tests storage for errors.
    It does so by writing data and reading back what it wrote.
    It recommends a format and then a test of the targeted media.
    You can even do an "endless verify" for really long-term testing.
    Comments or suggestions go to Harald Bögeholz <>.

    5. I ran the H2testw executable and selected the "English" mode.
    Note: It has a URL in the GUI which points to "http://www.ctmagazin.de".

    6. I pressed the "Select target" button and let it through the firewall.
    Up popped "Browse for Folder" which I pointed to Removable Disk E:\

    7. H2testw predictably said "Target E:\, Error accessing target".
    This is because no program has been able to access the card while in the
    card reader hooked to a USB port via a mini-USB cable.

    8. As suggested in the readme, I tried multiple ports & mini-USB cables.

    9. So, I put the SD HC card back in the camera (where it always worked)
    Note: I always need to turn on the camera to get it to be recognized.

    10. I formatted the card (for about the sixth time) in the camera.

    11. I hit the H2test2 "Select target" button to select Removable disk E:\
    I kept the default "Data volume" of "all available space" (3873 MByte)
    and pressed the "Write + Verify" button (which wasn't available prior).

    12. It showed "H2testw | Progress" and a "Writing | Verifying" pane.
    The progress bar shows more than an hour remaining; I'll report back.
     
    Pat Cheney, Dec 28, 2008
  6. Pat Cheney

    Pat Cheney Guest

    Hi John,
    Just for the record, I did use "Disk Management" yesterday.

    I'll try the troubleshooting help when the german test is done.
    I'll also look up how to "initialize" a flash card since that seems to be
    where I'm hung up.

    Thanks and have a great new year!!!!!!

    Pat
     
    Pat Cheney, Dec 28, 2008
  7. Pat Cheney

    Pat Cheney Guest

    I just did format it again since H2testw recommends a format first.
    Thanks Ron.

    This has been a very enlightening discussion.

    Thank you all and have a happy new year!

    (I'm heading off to church as the H2testw is running ........ )

    PS: Maybe I should pray for the digital media ... :)
     
    Pat Cheney, Dec 28, 2008
  8. Pat Cheney

    Pat Cheney Guest

    In summary, what's happening is that the card is working fine in the camera
    but not in the card reader.

    I tried two card readers (and I put another card in the reader).

    So the reader is working.

    The H2testw is still running (and I have to run off to church to pray for
    our souls) but I'm beginning to suspect the card is somehow not "fitting"
    right in the card readers. It "seems" to fit, but, why would just this one
    card not work in the two card readers.

    I think I'll stop by Frye's on my way back from church to buy another SD HC
    card reader and report back whether a new card reader and a new cable built
    FOR that card reader will work.

    Up until now, I've been using the mini-USB cables that are in my usb box
    and therefore I have no idea the genesis of the cable being used.

    Nothing else seems to make sense since it all works in the card.
    Allow me to report back with the new card reader in hand (and with the
    H2testw report in hand).

    Luckily I charged the battery in the camera before the H2testw started (I'm
    beginning to learn from all of you).

    Bless your souls ... and have a happy new year!
    Pat
     
    Pat Cheney, Dec 28, 2008
  9. Pat Cheney wrote:
    []
    Thanks for trying the test, Pat. There could be something wrong there,
    Pat. The 2GB and 4GB cards I tried took a few minutes each - perhaps as
    much as 15 minutes, but not an hour. That's with a USB 2 hi-speed card
    reader on a moden PC. Thet data rates were up to 9MB/s writing and
    12+MB/s reading. It sounds as if you have an older USB 1 reader
    connection.

    Cheers,
    David
     
    David J Taylor, Dec 28, 2008
  10. So drive E: is some sort of drive emulation by the camera software?

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Dec 28, 2008
  11. How weird! I take it this is the Casio EX-Z1080. I wouldn't mess any
    further - if a standard computer reader can't format the card there's
    something funny going on - perhaps the "large floppy" mode which someone
    suggested. It's obviously not quite the problem I thought it was....

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Dec 28, 2008
  12. Pat Cheney

    Pat Guest

    Yes. John Navas is right. I'm using the camera as the mount point because
    the flash drive didn't work. I was running late so I skipped getting the
    new flash card reader but I will do so today.

    Here's the report from H2testw

    H2testw | Progress
    Writing 3878 MByte, 1:18:27 h, 844 KByte/s
    Verifying 3878 MByte, 1:17:55 h, 849 KByte/s
    Test finished without errors.
    You can now delete the test files *.h2w or verify them again.
    Writing speed: 844 KByte/s
    Reading speed: 849 KByte/s
    H2testw v1.4
     
    Pat, Dec 28, 2008
  13. Pat Cheney

    Pat Guest

    Hi John,
    This is wonderful.
    It's the same Panasonic utility that I ran before to format the SD HC card!
    So, the good news is I didn't waste that formatting step.

    I got my Panasonic SDFormatter from here:
    http://panasonic.jp/support/global/cs/sd/download/sd_formatter.html
    Filename = sdfv2003.exe
    Version = 2.0.0.3

    The SD-Card Organization has the same Panasonic SDFormatter here:
    http://www.sdcard.org/consumers/formatter/
    Filename = sdfv2000.exe
    Version = 2.0.0.3

    In fact when I ran the SD-Card Organization SDFormatter installer
    (sdfv2000.exe), the first thing it did was remove my Panasonic SDFormatter
    installation (sdfv2003.exe).

    I had to actually run the sdf2000.exe installer twice to get it to actually
    install itself. Funny thing is, despite the different names, both say they
    are version 2.0.0.3 once you run them and the GUI is identical.

    The readme is the same readme as I ran into with the Panasonic program
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    SD Memory Card Formatting Software Ver.2.0
    Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. 5/21/2007
    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    So, I'm going to conclude I independently came up with the same potential
    solution you suggested, which, if I may so so myself, I consider an
    indication that I'm learning something.

    I'm formatting again, and, when I get a new card reader, I'll try that
    again. At this point, we're doing it for the answer, not to save the card
    because we've spent more time than the card is worth ... but the answer is
    priceless, especially since it will add to the usenet record for others!

    Have a great New Year!
    Pat
     
    Pat, Dec 28, 2008
  14. Pat Cheney

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usb#Power

    "A unit load is defined as 100mA in USB 2.0, and was raised to 150mA
    in USB 3.0. A maximum of 5 unit loads can be drawn from a port in USB
    2.0, and was raised to 6 in USB 3.0."
    I couldn't find anything in the abovementioned Wikipedia article that
    discussed the 5th ID pin in relation to battery charging. AFAICS, this
    pin should be floating at the phone end, not terminated with a
    resistor to ground. Does the "Battery Charging Specification" redefine
    the function of this pin, or is Motorola's implementation
    non-standard?
    - Franc Zabkar
     
    Franc Zabkar, Dec 28, 2008
  15. Pat Cheney

    The Real Bev Guest

    The Real Bev, Dec 29, 2008
  16. Pat Cheney

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    This is the "Battery Charging Specification":
    http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/batt_charging_1_0.zip

    Fig 3-2 on page 13 shows a Dedicated Charger. The D+ and D- pins are
    connected via a resistor, Rdchgr_dat, which has a maximum value of 200
    ohms.

    The ID pin is left floating at both ends.

    Section 3.10 on page 16 defines a "Resistive Detection Mechanism"
    whereby a portable device can differentiate between a dedicated
    charger and a hub or host charger by looking for pullup and pull-down
    resistors on D+ and D-.

    In all cases the ID pin is floating.

    - Franc Zabkar
     
    Franc Zabkar, Dec 29, 2008
  17. Windows itself may not, but some Windows programs will. I can't
    remember what annoying program it was, but something once "helpfully"
    added its own directories and thumbnail versions of my jpeg images to
    my camera flash card while it was in the camera, looking like a
    USB-mounted disc drive. Fortunately the camera didn't mind. Since then
    I've insisted on doing my transfers from camera manually, ignoring the
    entreaties from "helpful" programs to be chosen for the job.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Dec 29, 2008
  18. Pat Cheney

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    Here are the facts:

    USB "Battery Charging Specification":
    http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs/batt_charging_1_0.zip

    A USB charger does not require any smart electronics, only a shorting
    wire (R < 200 ohms) between the D+ and D- pins. The 5th ID pin must
    remain unconnected.

    This means that one really only needs 4 wires, so any implementation
    that uses a 4-pin connector would be compliant from an electrical
    point of view.

    If we assume that a Blackberry charger is wired as per the above
    standard, then it should be able charge any compliant phone, camera,
    etc. However, it won't charge a Motorola phone because the latter
    expects to see a particular non-standard voltage on the ID pin.

    OTOH, a non-standard Motorola charger which places 1 volt on the ID
    pin will not upset a compliant USB device (eg a Blackberry ?) because
    such a device expects this pin to be either grounded or not grounded.
    The device doesn't care whether the "not grounded" state is at 1V or
    2V or whatever, it only cares that it is not 0V.

    - Franc Zabkar
     
    Franc Zabkar, Dec 29, 2008
  19. Pat Cheney

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    Please explain, with references to the actual text.
    The people at pinouts.ru have *measured* it. What have *you* done?
    What *does* the spec say?

    - Franc Zabkar
     
    Franc Zabkar, Dec 29, 2008
  20. Pat Cheney

    Franc Zabkar Guest

    Ah, it's the same old John Navas. When you having nothing to say, say
    it as convincingly as possible. If you say it often enough, at least
    *some* people will believe you. There is no need for actual references
    when an ad hominem slur will do.

    Unlike you, John, I don't promote myself as the fount of all
    knowledge. I accept that I am ignorant and fallible. And unlike you, I
    would never dream of trying to pass myself of as a consultant. As a
    consultant I could not afford to be seen to be wrong, as this would
    damage my commercial standing.

    - Franc Zabkar
     
    Franc Zabkar, Dec 29, 2008
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