Why do some people join photo review clubs?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by ShutterXtreme, Dec 22, 2005.

  1. I've been playing around with several photo websites. three to be
    exact. photographers workshop, photo workshop, shutterxtreme. (just
    like the name) They all have good and bad attributes. Photo workshop
    is mainly very professional photographers, and they will hammer crap
    photos, and for the most part photographer take the hammering.
    Photographers workshop is mainly amateurs that praise crap, and then
    get mad if their crap isn't praised. Then there is shutterxtreme.
    Fairly new site, but same as before people get testy when they receive
    a review that they don't agree with. Only difference there is, the
    photographer doesn't know who the reviewer was.

    One thing that amazes me is how people will put their photos up to
    receive reviews and then gripe about the reviews they get. I'm no
    professional by any means, but I can sense crap. I don't ever post
    crap, so why would anyone post crap and expect everyone to fall in love
    with it? I feel that these site are for helping photographer become
    better, not,"Hey look, my dog does crap"...lol

    I would love to get this topic running. Maybe I'm wrong, but if there
    is a prize for photography, which all these websites have, wouldn't you
    take the advise given and do better?
    ShutterXtreme, Dec 22, 2005
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  2. Hey! I know crap when I see it!
    Toomanyputters, Dec 22, 2005
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  3. ShutterXtreme

    Dirty Harry Guest

    Dpreview forums are pretty good. I also like this one
    http://www.nylen.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl seems to be only pros and good
    Dirty Harry, Dec 22, 2005
  4. I think some times people do not know crap from good and they get mad
    at the truth. A old saying , if you start with crap and make it art its
    still crap not art......

    photochimperdude, Dec 22, 2005
  5. ShutterXtreme

    Mark² Guest

    Sometimes it's not as cut and dry as that.
    People shoot for different reasons, and with diffrent visions of what
    photography is about.
    It is often illuminating to hear about the same shot from many perspectives.
    This is especially true when it comes to paricularly unusual artisitic
    styles of photography. People can look at the same shot and have equally
    legitimate criticisms right along side with praise. There is no formula for
    declaring crap...and I would caution you from making too broad a statement.
    Obviously there are times where technique is SO poor that it's easy to
    identify crummy results (like yellow skin in a shot that is supposed to be
    flatteringly natural...), but often it's not so clear. This is where
    opinions...good/bad/objective can be helpful and enjoyable to
    Are you sure?
    Where are you pics?
    Hopefully that's everyone's intent.
    Part of the problem is that many who comment don't do so with a constructive
    intent. Many people simply enjoy deriding others, which isn't helpful.
    Other times, people react negatively to a photographer who is too quick to
    announce/imply his/her own greatness...which is a sure ticket to ridicule
    and torment.
    Mark², Dec 22, 2005
  6. ShutterXtreme

    Paul Heslop Guest

    Yeah, the pope used to say that to Leonardo all the time.

    Paul Heslop, Dec 22, 2005
  7. ShutterXtreme

    Pinehollow Guest

    But that old adage about "beauty is in the eyes of the beholder" holds true
    for everything, including photography. I look at some of these shots that
    are supposed to be 'artistic' and all I see is nice photos that have been
    butchered. Some people love them, some hate them, but the person who
    concocted the mess did so based on his/her visions. Everyone is entitled to
    an opinion, but the problem arises with those who believe that everyone
    should have the same opinion at them. Voice your opinion, but don't
    belittle others views.

    Pinehollow, Dec 22, 2005
  8. ShutterXtreme, Dec 22, 2005
  9. ShutterXtreme

    Pete Guest

    Your leaf image provides plenty of opportunities for constructive
    criticism. Some would mention:

    1. The DOF problems.
    2. The softness even in the sharpest areas.
    3. The strong line placed right in the center.
    4. The same line leading the eye into the image and straight out the other
    5. The overall greenish tint.

    Some might offer some advice along the lines "Don't give up your day job."
    Pete, Dec 22, 2005
  10. check out photo.net. They have a very interesting critique area.
    John A. Stovall, Dec 22, 2005
  11. I take critizism very well. Thank you for the pointers. That's not
    what this topic was about. Please read the topic.
    ShutterXtreme, Dec 22, 2005
  12. ShutterXtreme

    Frank ess Guest

    I like the mood: gray and depressing. I hope, in spite of indications
    to the contrary, your whole outlook isn't like that.

    If there is a range of focus, I think it should be in aid of drawing
    attention to something; in this shot there is nothing worth attention.

    What Pete said.

    If the real question is, "Why do some people join photo review
    clubs?", it was clearly rhetorical, and you have made your point: "If
    you join a review club, don't get irritated at opinions you don't

    Usenet is a giant review club: some parts for photography, some for
    writing, some for general comportment and demeanor, et cetera, et
    cetera, yattata yattata. Any submission is subject to evaluation on
    any basis by any participant.

    Your joining rpb stimulates and allows my observations:

    You could profitably spend some time in English Usage forums, with
    special emphasis on Spelling and Punctuation.

    If you think that is a gratuitous recommendation, remember you never
    get a second chance to make a first impression, and for sensitive
    readers, charitable as they may be, even the possibility of momentous
    content will forever be tainted by the moronery of inadequate
    attention to the basics and fine points of communication through the
    written word.

    It seems to me you have leaped into this froup in search of something
    lacking in your real-life environment. You may find it here, but only
    at a very low potency; better you should search elsewhere. Judging by
    your choice of metaphors, I'd guess a good start would be in the area
    of your lower digestive system, its health and products.

    Good luck.
    Frank ess, Dec 22, 2005
  13. ShutterXtreme

    Mark² Guest

    Finer points like "froup" (see below) and "rpb" (see above)?
    -Sorry Frank...couldn't resist.
    Otherwise...a great post.
    Mark², Dec 22, 2005
  14. ShutterXtreme

    Matt Ion Guest

    Personally, I've been on PhotoSIG.com for a couple years and I think it
    works pretty well. The problem with a lot of these sites is they just
    leave things open to crap like vengeful bad ratings, allowing someone's
    friends to vote endlessly for a pic, and so on... and the sites become
    largely meaningless.

    PhotoSIG has several checks and balances against "flooding" critiques
    and uses a peer-review system, not just of the photos, but of the
    critiques as well. Upload ratios are based on how many points one
    earns. Photo ratings can be from -3 to +3 "thumbs up". Those "thumbs"
    apply to a photographer's points. When a critique is rated "helpful",
    the reviewer also receives those points, and multiple other users can
    rate a critique. An "unhelpful" rating removes the same number from the
    reviewer's points.

    In my experience, this works quite well to encourage constructive
    participation: if you want to upload more of your pics, you need to do
    more critiques. If they're good, constructive critiques, you get extra
    points from "helpful" ratings. If you upload a lot of crap pics that
    get low ratings, you don't earn as many points to upload more; if you
    upload really good pics, you earn more points from higher ratings, and
    can upload more.

    They do insist that critiques be at least 15 words, or the rating
    doesn't count (so you can't boost your points by just posting a bunch of
    "This is a nice pic" critiques). They don't let you critique the same
    photographer more than a certain number of times per day, to prevent one
    person boosting - or slagging - one person excessively. They also
    disallow excessive numbers of high-level ratings, meaning you can't just
    go through giving everything you see three thumbs up over and over just
    to boost your points.

    The system seems to work fairly well, overall... it's not perfect, but
    nothing like this ever could be. Give it a look.
    That's the beauty with PhotoSIG... first of all, most times the real
    crap doesn't even get a sniff (heh heh), and the crap that does, gets
    negative rankings that reduces that photographer's ability to upload
    more. Blatant crap critiques will get "unhelpful" ratings that will
    further reduce that person's ability to upload pictures. Without the
    ability to upload photos, participating at all becomes pretty moot. You
    will get the (very) rare twit who just comes around to slag everything
    in sight and be a nob, but the moderators are just and responsive to
    emails and will delete those users and their negative feedback :)
    Frankly, I've actually only heard of this problem; I've not seen it
    myself, with my photos or anyone else's.
    Slagging someone else to better your own position is a time-honored
    tactic. PhotoSIG offers no prizes other than peer recognition. Seems
    like a good way to reduce the felgercarb.

    BTW, I don't work for PhotoSIG, I'm not connected to them in any way,
    other than as a satisfied user. I also don't have a ton of photos or
    critiques on there, I don't spend all day writing reviews and what
    not... I'm a casual user at best. It's also the only such site I've
    continued to use regularly, because I've run into to too many of the
    other problems you've described with other sites. PhotoSIG is the only
    one that's kept me coming back.

    avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
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    Matt Ion, Dec 22, 2005
  15. ShutterXtreme

    Frank ess Guest

    You're right. I shouldn't use vernacular in such a scholarly post.
    Thank you. (blush)
    Frank ess, Dec 22, 2005
  16. ShutterXtreme

    HornBlower Guest

    I think people do it for constructive comments. Not the "It's Crap!" ones.
    As for what is crap well that is up to each person. What you may call a find
    photo I may not. However, even if I didn't like an image I would at least
    have the class to explain why and offer suggestion on how to make it better
    (again this is my opinion).

    Frankly, I think a lot of people online are just assholes. Many are
    certainly mean spireted and probably should just keep their traps shut.
    HornBlower, Dec 23, 2005
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