When will Canon replace its 11.1 megapix EOS-1Ds with something better?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Chad Little, Apr 20, 2004.

  1. Chad Little

    Chad Little Guest

    The EOS-1Ds is a year or two old by now, so I am concerned about
    dropping $7500 on it because I think it is due for a replacement.
    Does anyone have any ideas about when the next one will come out?

    I broke my old SLR so I am trying to decide between the EOS-1Ds now or
    a cheaper film SLR to get my by until the next biggy comes out. I
    like wide angle shots with my fisheye so I really don't want to go
    with a digital without a 1-1 ratio with the zoom compared to 35mm

    Thanks for your ideas and speculations.

    Chad Little, Apr 20, 2004
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  2. Chad Little

    George Guest

    I understand your concern, especially with Canon revamping most of its DSLR
    line. I really hope they do something great (and cheaper) even though I own
    Nikon stuff and would prefer not to switch (for economic reasons). I'd just
    like to see Canon give Nikon a good, swift kick in the direction of an
    affordable 1X sensor DSLR. (I like my D70 but can't wait until I can
    finally get the camera I really want.)
    George, Apr 20, 2004
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  3. Chad Little

    Bill Hilton Guest

    From: (Chad Little)
    I bought a 1Ds about 3 weeks ago, so I'm guessing Canon will announce a new and
    vastly improved model with significantly more pixels, deeper buffer, higher fps
    and auto-sensor cleaning at a greatly reduced price any day now :)

    Bill Hilton, Apr 20, 2004
  4. Chad Little

    steve Guest


    If Canon does come out with a 1ds killer soon, I will be glad to give
    your old 1ds a happy home here :)

    steve, Apr 20, 2004
  5. Chad Little

    Tom Scales Guest

    Nikon's pretty public about believing in the 1.5x sensor and not planning a
    1x sensor. Honestly, I'd be pretty pissed, since I now have Nikon glass
    that won't do a full image on a 1x sensor.

    Tom Scales, Apr 20, 2004
  6. Chad Little

    adm Guest

    That's why I intend to stay away from the DX glass for a while. If they do
    bring out a full frame sensor, then I'm OK, and if they don't then the price
    of DX lenses secondhand should be lower in a year or so.
    adm, Apr 20, 2004
  7. SNIP
    Thanks! ;-)


    P.S. Photokina at the end of September seems a good moment to announce both
    an 8MP EOS 3 based model, and a successor for the 1Ds.
    Bart van der Wolf, Apr 20, 2004
  8. Greece is rumoured to have some silly buggers running around
    and stuff soon...

    Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd.,
    +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda.
    West Australia 6076
    comp.os.vms,- The Older, Grumpier Slashdot
    Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked.
    EPIC, The Architecture of the future, always has been, always will be.
    Paul Repacholi, Apr 20, 2004
  9. Chad Little

    Wim Joppe Guest

    And maybe we will get the eyed-controlled
    auto focus at last.

    Wim Joppe, Apr 20, 2004
  10. Not until another manufacturer has a viable counterpart to the 1Ds.
    The Kodak full-frame sensor DSLR reportedly lacks image quality. The
    Contax full-frame sensor DSLR lacks system support. So Canon has full
    reign over the high-end DSLR market. And, since the 1Ds gives
    outstanding image quality (I've seen first-hand samples) with great
    system support at a price reasonable for its place in the line-up, why
    would Canon need to update it?

    You can spend your whole life waiting for the next best thing, or you
    can enjoy the current best thing now. When I bought my 10D last
    August, several of my gear-head friends said that I should wait for
    the 8MP Canon EOS 3-based DSLR that was "sure to be annonced at
    Photokina next month". I've made thousands of images with my 10D, and
    there is still no EOS 3D on the market.

    street shooter, Apr 20, 2004
  11. Chad Little

    George Guest

    I know they said that...but, I'm hoping they'll go wherever the market
    forces kick them. If I thought there was no hope, I'd sell all my Nikons
    and Nikon glass, and take a fresh, unencumbered look at what to buy.
    George, Apr 20, 2004
  12. Chad Little

    George Guest

    Not until another manufacturer has a viable counterpart to the 1Ds.
    Kodak has revamped their 1X sensor offering.

    I thought Contax's had been discontinued(?).

    The reason Canon would (or would be tempted to) update it is that it is
    primarily an electronic product...i.e., many improvements could be firmware
    (algorithms...a "no cost" to Canon improvement), economies from a maturing
    technology (lower cost for Canon), Moore's Law as it applies to advancing
    hardware technologies (density/cost), etc. Wouldn't it be pretty tempting
    to make the next generation when you don't have to just to seal your
    position as a leader and keep the wanna-be companies out of the market?
    George, Apr 20, 2004
  13. Chad Little

    Skip M Guest

    I'd have to agree, with the R&D money that went into the extreme wide zooms
    to make up for the 1.5 sensor, Nikon would have to be pretty silly to
    suddenly about face and go the full size sensor route.
    Skip M, Apr 21, 2004
  14. The obvious solution is to support both formats. A smaller, cheaper sensor
    for the part of the market that cares about low prices and a full size sensor
    for the people who need all the resolution they can get.

    The question is what Nikon is going to do about the 1Ds. Can they provide the
    same performance on a smaller sensor.
    Philip Homburg, Apr 21, 2004
  15. It is not all that obvious that Moore's Law applies to sensors.
    Philip Homburg, Apr 21, 2004
  16. The 1Ds is a dinosaur, it uses 386 to 486 level fabrication in its
    horrendously low resolution senor. At 2.76MP before interpolation to
    11.1M output pixels, it isn't competitive with pro DSLRs today. Try
    the $620 SD9 with 3.43/13.72MP (non-interpolated/interpolated) instead
    of the aged 2.76/11.1MP (non-i/i) Canon 1Ds. The new Simga SD10 uses
    Pentium4-level CMOS fabrication, and it has a lot less noise at ISO
    800 than the ancient Canon CMOS's have at ISO 100. See...

    George Preddy, Apr 21, 2004
  17. Also, see the interpolated old 1Ds sensor get creamed here...

    George Preddy, Apr 21, 2004
  18. You mean this same Field-of-View comparison:
    Also consider that the original comparison was designed to "fool" the 1Ds
    with an unlikely color combination, and that the 1Ds image was low-pass
    filtered to almost half the sampling resolution, whereas the Sigma wasn't,
    resulting in horrible aliasing artifacts, especially noticable when output
    is 5x7in or larger.

    And for a more meaningful resolution comparison, compare:
    which starts to misrepresent the finer lines above the 12 marker (even
    counts only 4 or 5 black lines at the 20 marker instead of 9), with:
    http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/samples/rescharts/canon_eos1ds.jpg which has
    little trouble resolving the finest detail at the 20 marker (we need more
    detailed test cards for this camera), and the Fuji S2 at 12MP output setting
    on the same page http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1ds/page21.asp also
    reaches a reasonable 18+ mark.

    Bart van der Wolf, Apr 21, 2004
  19. Chad Little

    George Guest

    I have to agree with you that it is an unknown at this point...I should have
    identified it as wishful conjecture on my part. Not baseless but
    insufficient evidence is in at this point to tell for sure.
    George, Apr 22, 2004
  20. Then they have abandoned the professional market (once again). But it's not
    easy to come up with a full-frame sensor. Expect Canon to milk that for all
    it's worth.

    We'll probably see a prosumer full frame model from Canon for $2500 or so,
    by the end of this year.

    I doubt if they'll drop the 1Ds price by much since there is no competition
    for it. The Sigma-Kodak/Canon 14Mp will probably suffer from the same
    problems as the Nikon-Kodak 14Mp.
    Steven M. Scharf, Apr 28, 2004
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