When will AA lithium-ion replace NiMH in stores?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by John Doe, Dec 1, 2008.

  1. John Doe

    John Doe Guest

    How long do you think AA and AAA NiMH will remain in retail stores?

    When will AA and AAA nickel metal hydride be replaced with lithium-ion
    AA and AAA batteries?

    Thanks.
     
    John Doe, Dec 1, 2008
    #1
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  2. Never because the voltages are too different. The 3.6V (nominal) of a
    Li-Ion will destroy most tools that expect the 1.5V of a traditional
    battery.
    The 1.2V of a NiMH is close enough to those 1.5V for most tools to work
    with the reduces voltage, in particular as the actual voltage of
    traditional batteries drops below 1.5V anyway after some use.

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Dec 1, 2008
    #2
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  3. John Doe

    J. Clarke Guest

    5-10 years after someone invents them.
     
    J. Clarke, Dec 1, 2008
    #3
  4. John Doe

    Guest Guest

    and how exactly do you know this?
    cite a reference for this.
     
    Guest, Dec 1, 2008
    #4
  5. John Doe

    John Doe Guest

    That sound about right.
    Lithium-ion cells are becoming increasingly popular in a wide
    variety of consumer products. Cordless tools are a glaring example.
    This stuff is a little bit off topic, but following your lead,
    possible is that some lithium-ion cell design/shape will spin off to
    become popular in other devices and eventually become popular enough
    to replace AA batteries. There's nothing (except the standard) that
    prevents any manufacturer of any device from making a battery
    compartment and device power requirement that fits a 3.7 V battery.
    But again, I agree the timeframe would probably be at least one
    decade for that to happen.

    If they ever get rolling on improved electric car battery designs,
    that will be great for everybody who uses rechargeable batteries.
    Hopefully we won't be pacified by the middle east loosening our
    chain and forget all about breaking our dependence on foreign oil.
    Time will tell.

    Good luck and have fun.
     
    John Doe, Dec 2, 2008
    #5
  6. John Doe

    ASAAR Guest

    Be careful. SMS has utilized sock puppets before, and this looks
    like another case where he's answering one of his creations. The OP
    (who doesn't seem to have ever been here before) suddenly appears
    and creates two battery threads, one in which he at first appears to
    be a clueless battery newbie, and another in which he also appears
    clueless, yet knows about the MH-C9000 and La Crosse RS900 chargers,
    both of which are touted on SMS's battery website with this :
    and replies in this thread to SMS's bizarre "2018" prediction with
    and then continues with two paragraphs sounding just like SMS.
     
    ASAAR, Dec 2, 2008
    #6
  7. John Doe

    Mark Thomas Guest

    (Tag)

    Well spotted asaar - yes, there he goes again. Just check the headers
    for the giveaways. I'm surprised it wasn't "Dr Sumner C Roberts".

    For more about 'Steven M Scharf' tactics and his
    oh-no-it's-not-commercial spamsites, check here:

    http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Rec/rec.photo.digital/2008-11/msg01459.html

    Have a good one, SMS.
     
    Mark Thomas, Dec 2, 2008
    #7
  8. John Doe

    John Doe Guest

    Are you in a movie?
    Off the top of my head... I posted here about early Energizer an AA
    NiMH battery charger, that it wouldn't charge AAAs. Another time I
    posted about shopping for an inexpensive digital camera. Another
    time I posted about the move from film to digital. And probably
    other times. It's a big group with lots of intelligent people.

    I have no idea why it matters, Jack, but there you go.
    Because I didn't know or forgot to consider the cell voltage of
    lithium ion batteries, Jack?
    Hello troll.
    It's called "research", Jack.
    Both of which have been discussed in this group too. So it's not
    just SMS, but everyone here is my sock puppet.
    As if it matters (to anyone besides the obsessed), my last post's
    signature should clear up the issue, unless you are totally drunk.

    Good luck.
     
    John Doe, Dec 2, 2008
    #8
  9. All the resident trolls come out to accuse each other every chance they get.
    It's all quite hilarious.

    Now, back to something photography related. Something that none of them know
    anything about, otherwise they'd be involved in those threads. The moment they
    do enter actual photography-related threads their ignorance and net-only life is
    instantly revealed. It's why they can't participate in those topics.

    The best they can muster is knowing the mAh required for their vibrators. Of
    this they are quite certain, and won't be easily revealed as the know-nothing
    trolls that they are.
     
    HampsterDance, Dec 2, 2008
    #9
  10. John Doe

    ASAAR Guest

    As I said, you appear to be clueless. With all your research into
    batteries and chargers, you don't know Jack. I didn't say that you
    definitely were SMS's sock puppet, but there were indications that
    you might be one, which I mentioned already. If you aren't, then
    you also don't know much about SMS.

    As per my reply in your other thread :
    Both of the above are excellent chargers, but are unlikely to be
    of much help. It's extremely unlikely that your current charger
    (pa!) is killing your cells. They may show that your NiMH cells are
    losing capacity more quickly than normal, but you know that that's
    happening already. Focus instead on how you use your NiMH cells.
    If you have a pool of NiMH cells that are shared among devices, stop
    doing that, at least until you're able to determine what's damaging
    your NiMH cells. It may be only one or two of your devices that are
    damaging them, so if in the future you use known good NiMH cells and
    use each set in only one device, you'll be better able to pinpoint
    the device that may be prematurely damaging them.

    Each device treats batteries differently. Some are (whether
    intentionally or not) designed to shut down when the first NiMH cell
    is depleted. This helps to protect all of the cells in that device.
    Others can operate at lower voltages, and can continue operating
    when one cell is completely exhausted, which will rapidly shorten
    that cell's life. Devices that are much more likely to damage cells
    are those that use 3 or more cells (the more they use, the more
    likely they are to damage cells), and analog devices such as those
    that contain motors, non-digital radios, flashlights that use bulbs
    instead of LEDs, etc. In digital cameras that use 4 NiMH AA cells,
    it's prudent to recharge them before the battery warning indicator
    gives you its first alert.
     
    ASAAR, Dec 2, 2008
    #10
  11. John Doe

    SMS Guest

    Sorry about that, there's so many trolls and sock puppets in this group
    lately, and this question has been posed so many times, that I
    mistakenly assumed the worst, especially since you're using a pseudonym.
    I apologize.

    In reality, AA _sized_ Li-Ion cells _do_ exist already. The problem is
    that they aren't interchangeable with standard AA cells except in
    limited circumstances (where the device can accept higher voltages due
    to internal switching regulators with a wide input range). You need to
    use a charger designed for them. Obviously these cells need to be
    marketed very carefully, but some of them do have internal protection
    circuitry to protect against fire or explosion (but they would still
    damage many AA powered devices).

    If you go to the battery information web site there is more information
    about these batteries. Here is an except from the site:

    "AA sized Li-Ion cells do exist, but please don't call them AA cells!
    The designation is 14500, and they are relatively inexpensive. They have
    protection circuitry built in. They need to recharged in a Li-Ion
    charger, and the voltage is 3.7V, so they are not interchangeable with
    "stnadard" 1.2V to 1.7V AA batteries, except in some devices that have
    internal switching regulators. For example, many high end LED
    flashlights have internal switching regulators that can accept a wide
    range of voltages (they can run off one or two stnadard AA batteries, or
    a 3V CR123 battery, or a 14500 battery). In terms of capacity, there is
    a slight advantage with these cells, versus low-discharge NiMH cells; a
    3.7V, 900mAH cell yields a capacity of 3.33WH, while an AA Sanyo Eneloop
    yields a capacity of 2.5WH."

    There are links to sources for these batteries and chargers on the web site.

    To get to the battery information web site, type "nimh versus li-ion"
    into Google's search window and click on "I'm Feeling Lucky" and it'll
    take you right there. The direct URL is "http://batterydata.com/".
     
    SMS, Dec 2, 2008
    #11
  12. John Doe

    SMS Guest

    Yet AA size Li-Ion cells that produce 3.7 volts are already being
    marketed at the retail level, but they do have protection circuitry
     
    SMS, Dec 3, 2008
    #12
  13. John Doe

    John Doe Guest

    My Garman eTrex Venture HC GPS frequently asked questions page suggests
    they are marketed someplace.

    "You do not want to use the lithium ion batteries in our units, because
    they will permanently damage the unit."
     
    John Doe, Dec 3, 2008
    #13
  14. John Doe

    John Doe Guest

    ....
    As if I should have included a disclaimer because a reply author is
    using the same legitimate ISP for posting to USENET.

    Oh well. I've seen other posters who think they are King Protectors
    of the group, who had no idea what was really going on, like you
    and your obsessed friend, Don Quixote.
     
    John Doe, Dec 3, 2008
    #14
  15. John Doe

    Matt Ion Guest

    Wow, everyone here sure is behind the times... we were putting Energizer
    AA lithiums in a battery-hogging little Olympus digital camera, like, 10
    years ago. Energizer has at least two non-rechargeable AA lithiums on
    the market:
    http://www.energizer.com/products/hightech-batteries/Pages/high-tech-batteries.aspx

    At the time, they ran about $20 for a two-pack, but lasted up to 10
    times longer than alkalines in that camera, so it was worth the cost.
     
    Matt Ion, Dec 3, 2008
    #15
  16. Matt Ion wrote:
    []
    Lithium <> Lithium-Ion

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Dec 3, 2008
    #16
  17. John Doe

    Mark Thomas Guest

    If you are not him, I genuinely apologise...! But, "John", don't *you*
    think it's just a remarkable coincidence? It's a funny old world, when
    two totally different posters use the same host/timezone, are both
    intensely interested in batteries and chargers, name the same devices,
    and that one of the said posters has a proven history of posting as
    sockpuppets asking hypothetical questions to drum up traffic to his
    oh-no-it's-not-commercial websites?

    =================
    From: John Doe
    Message-ID: <NwUYk.8946$>
    X-Complaints-To:
    X-Trace: nlpi065.nbdc.sbc.com 1228149933 ST000 75.32.94.80 (Mon, 01 Dec
    2008 11:45:33 EST)
    Organization: at&t http://my.att.net/
    ....

    From: SMS
    Message-ID: <i_XYk.5940$>
    X-Complaints-To:
    X-Trace: flpi150.ffdc.sbc.com 1228164110 ST000 99.139.48.237 (Mon, 01
    Dec 2008 15:41:50 EST)
    Organization: at&t http://my.att.net/
    ....
    ==================
    You'll note I posted but once. I am only responding now as you have
    decided to talk to someone who is obsessed. In future it might be
    better to ignore folks who have 'no idea', like me.

    Oh well. I've seen other posters who abuse usenet, like SMS, D-Mac, and
    Vern/Keoeeit, and I like making sure newbies know what might be going
    on. If I miss occasionally, so be it. Sorry.

    If you are not SMS, I'm sure your future posts will demonstrate that
    adequately, so why worry yourself about my 'wild' guess? You may also
    wish to judge me by looking at other posts too.

    I don't always 'out' people...
     
    Mark Thomas, Dec 3, 2008
    #17
  18. John Doe

    SMS Guest

    That's why g-d invented kill-files.
     
    SMS, Dec 3, 2008
    #18
  19. John Doe

    SMS Guest

    No, he didn't ask about lithium AA batteries, he asked about LiIon
    rechargeable AA batteries.
     
    SMS, Dec 3, 2008
    #19
  20. John Doe

    SMS Guest

    Google "14500 battery." No, you can't buy them at Wal-Mart or Target,
    but all the specialty battery sellers have then available. These usually
    aren't simply raw cells, they at least have protection built in against
    improper charging.

    I sure wish that they wouldn't even use the term "AA" when referring to
    these batteries, though I'm sure that they provide sufficient warning.
     
    SMS, Dec 3, 2008
    #20
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