What NZ criminal offence is Dotcom accused of having committed?

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Donchano, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. Donchano

    victor Guest

    So their customers weren't getting something for nothing.
    Sure, thats the beneficial effect of the music recording industry
    adapting. Old people like you with a stereo buy CDs now and then, but
    its no longer the norm.

    But the article wasn't about music, most bit torrent traffic is for tv
    programs which have been captured off free to air tv.
    victor, Feb 14, 2012
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  2. Donchano

    victor Guest

    Its all ipods these days geoff
    victor, Feb 14, 2012
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  3. Donchano

    Donchano Guest

    What others? There were only five people arrested. They all worked

    Are you seriously expecting anyone to believe that the only time they
    were ever together was at a birthday party with scores of other

    Wouldn't sending six police to each of the other four suspects' places
    of residence have led to their arrests?

    If multiple, coordinated raids are used for dangerous operations such
    as involving criminal gang houses and criminal drug, etc, why did they
    choose to use "Seventy-six police officers, many armed with automatic
    weapons and pistols, including members of the elite Special Tactics
    Group" backed by helicopters for a raid that posed little, if any,

    Do the maths, bright boy, Even if you sent 16 police to Dotcom's
    mansion and six to each of the other suspects' residences that adds up
    to 40 police instead of 76 police plus helicopters. Wouldn't that have
    been far more cost-effective for the taxpayer? Then the NZ police
    wouldn't have been able to show-off to the FBI and everyone else,
    would they?

    What you continue to conveniently ignore is the raid was timed to
    cause Dotcom the maximum embarrassment. The people who planned the
    raid deliberately timed it so that people who were not suspects or
    specified in the arrest warrant/s "could be locked up." It had far
    less to do with arresting the five suspects than scaring the shit out
    of Dotcom's family, birthday guests and household employees.

    As I stated earlier (and you questioned): "what concerns me the most
    is that allowing this kind of OTT grandstanding by the police might
    set a precedent that will lead to more of the same. I know that
    heavy-handed, quasi-military operations like the Dotcom swoop are part
    of the American culture, but do we want this kind of storm trooper
    mentality here? I know I don't."

    I also don't want the police to pre-empt the legal process by deciding
    that a suspect is guilty of a crime before due process and go out of
    their way to literally destroy his life by confiscating his property
    and intimidating his family, guests and employees. That is exactly the
    kind of storm trooper mentality I was referring to and those kind of
    actions should be of concern to every New Zealander who values

    Since I posted that earlier comment and you questioned whether it was
    "OTT grandstanding" and a "heavy-handed, quasi-military operation"
    I've addressed each one of your questions with information that
    supports my use of every one of those pejorative descriptions. In
    return, all you have given us is innuendo and cheap-shot assumptions
    backed only by your personal opinions.

    I was going to finish by asking, "you can't be that stupid, can you?"
    But your previous comments have answered that for you.
    Donchano, Feb 14, 2012
  4. Donchano

    Titus G Guest

    No. It is not.
    It is sort of like Dotcom provided the road to and from the shop and charged
    a toll knowing that some of the travellers were carrying stolen goods.

    It is sort of like Mitre 10 selling ladders to burglars, or perhaps
    Titus G, Feb 15, 2012
  5. Donchano

    Donchano Guest

    Prove it coward.
    Donchano, Feb 15, 2012

    Frank Williams, Feb 15, 2012
  7. Or the Post Office being blamed because people mail drugs and other illegal
    things through the post and they know it happens.
    Robin Halligan, Feb 15, 2012
  8. Donchano

    Donchano Guest

    Waiting, waiting, waiting ...

    Surely you won't let this chance to prove you're right pass you by.
    Donchano, Feb 15, 2012
  9. Donchano

    victor Guest

    There is no intrinsic advantage to transferring a file to an optical disc.
    Studio engineers are only ever listening to a file, superior to a CD.
    If you think your CD player may have a better DA converter, then
    external DA converters are available for ipads etc.
    victor, Feb 16, 2012
  10. Donchano

    victor Guest

    Yet you insist that the sole motivation for downloading is to get it for

    The broadcaster has already made their advertising revenue, so they
    haven't lost anything.

    As geoff says ...
    victor, Feb 16, 2012
  11. Donchano

    Donchano Guest

    So when it gets down to it, all of your silly statements are based on
    wild assumptions and insupportable opinions you don't have either the
    intelligence or the balls to back up.

    I always thought as much, but you've now proven it to everyone who's
    been following this thread. What a pathetic loser. Go crawl back under
    your rock and take your cheap assumptions and shallow opinions with
    Donchano, Feb 16, 2012
  12. Donchano

    Donchano Guest

    The only thing that seems self-evident is your lack of self-awareness
    and your inability to carry on a reasonable debate. You are a coward.
    Donchano, Feb 16, 2012
  13. Donchano

    Titus G Guest

    Donchano and whoisthis argued about:


    Donchano: All five of them? Wow ...

    No, *most* of them.

    whoisthis: Yes, it make it cheaper for the tax payer.

    Donchano: I'll ask you to tell us exactly how mounting an operation of this
    whoisthis: Oh, I guess by not having to raid multiple properties that would
    There were at least 5 NZ citizens arrested for fraud committed in NZ in
    relation to the activities of South Canterbury Finance. Done simultaneously
    but in the absence of a birthday party this required 10 constables carrying
    expensive truncheons and wearing expensive uniforms in 5 gas guzzling police
    cars all of which were travelling in different directions.
    Isn't it obvious to you, Donchano, even without doing the complicated
    arithmetic that this would cost a lot more than 76 pistol and automatic
    weapon toting specialists wearing trendy but cheap camoflage gear and old
    scarves for warmth in a dawn raid in only 2 helicopters and at least 5
    police cars but all going in the same direction?

    Further more, Donchano, isn't it obvious that if in relation to the SCF
    arrests, there were also unlocked doors smashed in, uncharged parties
    detained for hours, gloating self-congratulatory press conferences, video
    footage of offenders' assets; that this has always been standard procedure
    for white-collar criminals so the charge of grandstanding is an
    Titus G, Feb 16, 2012
  14. Donchano

    Donchano Guest

    While we're on the subject I can't I see that my concerns are not

    My concerns as stated in a subsequent post:

    " ... what concerns me the most is that allowing this kind of
    OTT grandstanding by the police might set a precedent that will lead
    to more of the same. I know that heavy-handed, quasi-military
    operations like the Dotcom swoop are part of the American culture, but
    do we want this kind of storm trooper mentality here? I know I don't."

    My concerns confirmed:


    Quake pensioner's charges dropped

    By Kurt Bayer

    10:22 AM Wednesday Feb 15, 2012

    Police have dropped charges against a Christchurch pensioner arrested
    and "roughed up'' by armed police while protecting his quake-hit

    And as he walked free from court today 65-year-old John Bennett warned
    police: "Someone's going to get killed.''

    The retired engineer armed himself with a child's softball bat and
    ancient air pistol after fearing intruders when he was woken in the
    early hours.

    But instead of finding looters or burglars who have been targeting the
    quake-damaged Burwood area, it was armed police hunting fugitives.

    He says he was stood on by a police officer before being pinned
    against a fence at his New Brighton Rd home with a gun pointed to his

    Mr Bennett was arrested and charged with carrying an air pistol
    "without some lawful, proper, and sufficient purpose'' and possessing
    an offensive weapon with an apparent intention to use it to "commit an
    offence which involved the fear of violence.''

    After spending time in police cells, and facing several court
    appearances, the man - who has never been in troubled with the police
    before - has had his charges dropped.

    At a Christchurch District Court hearing today at Nga Hau e Wha marae
    Mr Bennett appeared in the dock to hear the good news.

    Police prosecutor sergeant Dave Murray told Judge Gary MacAskill that
    "the matter has been looked at and these matters have been

    Outside court, Mr Bennett spoke of his "relief'' at avoiding criminal

    He said: "I couldn't believe it got this far, but to have the charges
    dropped is a massive relief.

    "I am glad that the police have finally seen sense.''

    Mr Bennett warned the public to be wary if they hear noises at night,
    and pleaded with police to be careful when approaching homeowners at

    "A lot of people I know has an iron bar, or cricket bat or something
    to protect themselves. But I wouldn't go outside: I would make sure
    the doors are locked and phone police straight away,'' he told APNZ.

    "Other neighbours of mine have told me they've heard or seen police
    running through their properties at night, and most of the houses are
    now vacant. They shouldn't be allowed to just roam around like this.

    "These police are so aggressive, and someone's going to get killed one
    day. They need to stop this activity - going through people's
    properties, armed at night and not identifying themselves.''

    Mr Bennett said he initially went outside his house on December 16
    after hearing voices and yelled: "Who's there?' And it went quiet. I
    said, `Look, you buggers, leave us alone. Clear off!'

    ``Again I told them to clear off, but nothing. So I went back to the
    door to phone the police. Just as I was opening the door, when I heard
    a noise in the driveway. I thought, 'Bloody hell,' so I grabbed a
    child's baseball bat sitting by the door and grabbed my old air
    pistol, which I bought about 35 years ago. Ever since the quake, it's
    been sitting under my bed.''

    Mr Bennett said he went to a gate across his darkened, long driveway
    with the softball bat in one hand, and air pistol in the other,
    'pointing to the ground.''

    "All of a sudden, there's a torch in my face. This voice says,
    'Whatever you've got in your hands, lay it down on the ground and step

    "I thought it was the police, so I put them down and stepped to the
    side. I said, 'Are you the police?' But they didn't say anything.

    "This chap grabs me and tells me to get up against the tin fence. He
    searches me. I asked what he was going to find in my undies.

    "He tells me to lie on the ground, where there was a lump of bitumen
    and piles of liquefaction. I am 65, with a pacemaker, and I couldn't
    lie face down because of the wires of the pacemaker going up my

    "He kneels in the middle of my back and tells me to lie flat. I said I
    couldn't because of the pacemaker.''

    Startled by all the noise, his wife Iris, 64, came to see what was
    going on. She was horrified to see her husband pinned to the fence
    with a dark figure "pointing a gun to his head.''

    - APNZ


    Donchano, Feb 16, 2012
  15. Donchano

    Titus G Guest

    Are you sure?

    Do you have the right to play them to staff on your oil rig or to play them
    as background to some money making activity such as a dance or reataurant?

    Do you have the right to lend them to your family, friends or strangers?
    If so, think of the thousands of millions the USA music industry loses every
    week because your wife/children/neighbours/etc have not paid. Shame on you.
    When you are away from your CD collection, what steps do you take to ensure
    your dearest and nearest, as well as your not so dearest and nearest, do not
    copy them?

    I'm tempted to send a copy of this post to the FBI because it is obvious to
    me that whoisthis is really Edward Teach.
    Titus G, Feb 16, 2012
  16. Donchano

    Donchano Guest

    Obviously ...
    Donchano, Feb 16, 2012
  17. Donchano

    Donchano Guest

    Whoooshhhhhhhh ....

    This stupid whoisthis <> prick is so lacking in
    self-awareness that it doesn't even know when someone is taking the

    What a pathetic plonker.
    Donchano, Feb 16, 2012
  18. Donchano

    victor Guest

    The problem for Apple is that their store is designed solely to
    distribute 16 bit content to their dedicated 16 bit hardware so they
    have a vested interested in maintaining the status quo, so its no
    surprise to hear their fanboy trotting out the company line
    There are other internet sources of 24 bit content for enthusiasts, and
    that content can even be played on an ipad with an external DAC.
    HD audio can be distributed on blu-ray, but that is a whole other
    channel of costs to maintain, and its a movie format.
    I'm quite happy buying whatever format for the music.
    Coldplay in 24 / 96 is still shit.

    victor, Feb 16, 2012
  19. Donchano

    Titus G Guest

    Do you have any downloaded music? If you did, would you have the same right
    to lend it to your family, friends or strangers or to sell it?
    Ah, so you trust them, just like Dotcom will claim that he trusted his
    Titus G, Feb 17, 2012
  20. Donchano

    Titus G Guest

    You have evaded the question. Do you have the same right to lend downloaded
    music to your family, friends or strangers or to sell it?
    Titus G, Feb 17, 2012
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