warehouse club warning

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by SamSez, Mar 25, 2005.

  1. SamSez

    Big Bill Guest

    We use Costco, our daughter uses Sam's, so I get to go to both.
    I've not noticed that myself, but it could be that I'm just oblivious
    to that particular difference.
    I think the free food samples in Costco are better, though. :)
     
    Big Bill, Mar 29, 2005
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  2. Actually, now that you explain your lineage, it explains a lot of other
    things as well. A lot of the attitudes you express here probably also
    "aren't your fault".

    Art

    Ron Hunter wrote:
     
    Arthur Entlich, Mar 29, 2005
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  3. Matt,

    You are wasting your typing fingers. Didn't you read the views of your
    detractors? If it isn't "profitable" to the US, it doesn't warrant
    getting involved.

    The one absolutely valuable lesson that the Bush administration and the
    9-11 events have revealed clearly to the world is that the US government
    only acts within its own interest, for the well being of those it is
    most heavily in debt to, or owned or run by.

    Art



    Matt Silberstein wrote:
     
    Arthur Entlich, Mar 29, 2005
  4. Ron Hunter wrote:


    Oh really?

    And how much of the GDP is paid out "privately" in the US on medical
    costs? (And how much of that is ripped off by your lovely "for profit"
    insurance and medical system). And how many people in the US just end
    up dead before they "wait months if not years" for the surgery they
    need, because they have no insurance.

    The doctors that flee, BTW, happen to usually be the unethical ones who
    went into medicine for the money anyway, so, good riddance, and further,
    if they had nowhere else to go, because the other countries also worked
    under socialized medicine, that would solve that problem pretty fast,
    wouldn't it.

    You obviously have never lived in a country with good socialized
    medicine. I have both lived in the US (half my life) and in Canada and
    Europe (half my life) and I would NEVER consider going back to the US as
    an option.

    Simply put, the US provides medicine for SOME of the people, those who
    can afford the horrific costs (and why do I bet you have a nice paid for
    health plan through your employer or pension while you would deny that
    of Walmart employees (which you parasitically live off of by shopping
    there)). In the meantime, a good percentage of Americans suffer with no
    health care or substandard health care, and the proof is in the UN
    rankings that show the US, the great wealthy super-duper power, never
    even gets close to the top of the list for health, education or standard
    of living, year after year. Daily, people in the US are bankrupted
    financially by health care costs; the poor, the elderly, the sickly,
    those with rare diseases.

    Now, I will agree on one thing, Canada has suffered tremendously as a
    result of having the misfortune of our geography, situated right next to
    your toxic country. Your private insurers scramble to get the Canadian
    business and are helping to ruin our medical system. Your medical
    "corporations" (who used to be called doctors), lobby here continually
    to try to break up the medical system we have. Stupid Canadians, which
    unfortunately, there are too many of, who don't know better, look to the
    US as a model of a perverse "cheap tax" haven, and suffering from US
    Envy, due to their ignorance, have voted in governments here that have
    slowly damaged our health system. Even then, however, it's still better
    for most people than what the US offers. We have a healthier population
    as a country than the population of the US. I know that nothing matters
    to you but yourself, and maybe your immediate family, but here in Canada
    there still does exist the understanding that a healthy and educated
    society benefits everyone, that keeping guns out of the population
    protects everyone, and that keeping right-wing fundamentalist crazies
    out of public office (by not voting for them) protects the separation of
    "church" and state so all people can be equally represented under law
    with fairness.

    In all my days, I have never seen a more paranoid population as exists
    in the US today. You people consider any society more evolved and saner
    than your own a threat to your way of life, and I suppose in some ways,
    it is. Heck, the rest of the world just might work on solving things
    like global climate change without you, and wouldn't that be horrible,
    so your country does everything in its power to derail the process and
    spew your poisonous pollution and greenhouse gases at a rate unsurpassed
    by any other country. Well, Mr. "Texian", while your crazy government
    goes around punching holes in the permafrost looking for oil in fragile
    tundra of Alaska, so you can drive SUVs, the rest of the world works on
    fuel cells, and while your country continues to foul your nest so you
    have no clean water left, coming north begging for a cup of clean
    drinking water, we'll probably be good neighbors and give you some out
    of pity, and just shake our heads the way people do when encountering
    fools and madmen.

    Art

    Ron Hunter wrote:
     
    Arthur Entlich, Mar 29, 2005
  5. The situation reported regarding Walmart indeed has been documented
    numerous times.

    Art
     
    Arthur Entlich, Mar 29, 2005
  6. I don't know who is responsible for the lowered quality of products sold
    at some of the discount big box stores, but it definitely happens.
    Several months back Loblaws Super Store was selling Epson Photo paper,
    with the identical product number on it as that sold elsewhere, in 100
    sheet or so packages for a "great price". However, upon sampling it, I
    discovered the paper was literally nearly half the thickness of the same
    product sole elsewhere in 20 sheet packages for considerably more money.

    The big box version was so thin as to ripple out of the package and by
    the time the ink hit it, well, forget it.

    I don't know who was to blame for this product. The big box, Epson,
    collaboration of the two, a counterfeit product, all I know is it ended
    up no deal for anyone who used the product.

    And the problem is I'd imagine many of the buyers were unfamiliar with
    the other product of the same number, so they couldn't make a direct
    comparison to know they had been provided with an inferior product,
    which saved them nothing due to the quality differences.


    Art
     
    Arthur Entlich, Mar 29, 2005
  7. Your argument is likely half the story.

    In all the time I have used Epson Photo paper, I have never seen the
    paper sold by the big box store in Epson's line up. It was obviously a
    special run, maybe even an exclusive for that big box store. A buyer
    likely contacted Epson and they agreed on the product at a price. I
    would be very surprised that Epson went and reduced the thickness by
    nearly half without agreement by the big box. I suspect that prior to
    the end deal, samples change hands and are agreed upon.

    I am not sure the product is reconfirmed when the product arrives at
    warehouses. I imagine it is delivered to many warehouses at once and
    then further distributed, but I still suspect that a contract didn't get
    signed until the exact product was agreed upon.

    Art
     
    Arthur Entlich, Mar 29, 2005
  8. I must say that there was a lot of huff and puff that seems to have
    disappeared. I did not even mention that Afghanistan is pretty much a
    narco state now, one that has get women in the state they were in
    under the Taliban. Or that women are loosing their rights daily in
    Iraq and that our "friend" Saudi continues to mistreat them with no
    word from the U.S.
    While the U.S. are not angels, neither are we devils. Countries act in
    their own interest, the U.S. is a country. My problem is not that, my
    problem is that we don't act in our interest as I see it, we seem to
    act for a small group of people with a very short time-frame. Shrub
    pushes on drilling in ANWAR, but does not meaningful to reduce oil
    consumption. Or, since I am in venting mood here, this recent gross
    hypocrisy regarding Schiavo. The Republican Party gained tremendous
    political success by taking the mantle of "States Rights" from the
    Democrats. They repeat over and over that they believe in small
    government and states rights and the family. So they could not do
    anything about civil rights. They were against discrimination, but it
    was not the role of the federal government. But suddenly it is the
    role of the federal government, they took this case right out of the
    state. They passed laws (and tried to pass more laws) to *reduce* the
    value of marriage and of the family. If you actually believe these
    people this one brain-dead woman is worth more than millions of blacks
    and Hispanics, she is worth more than the families of America. Either
    that or they have spent decades using prejudice as a weapon, they
    don't give a hoot about states rights, they wanted the votes of
    Southern bigots. You can see their view of states rights when you see
    that they override the states when it comes to drug usage or tort
    reform or a host of other issues.

    Venting over for now.



    --
    Matt Silberstein

    All in all, if I could be any animal, I would want to be
    a duck or a goose. They can fly, walk, and swim. Plus,
    there there is a certain satisfaction knowing that at the
    end of your life you will taste good with an orange sauce
    or, in the case of a goose, a chestnut stuffing.
     
    Matt Silberstein, Mar 29, 2005
  9. :
    After reading and rereading much the same line here without this point
    being injected, I want to add something. Here where I live (in SC),
    this town has two Wal-Mart stores and one Sams Club. I've never seen
    Ilford paper in either of the Wal-Mart stores here. Further, the
    local Sam's club ONLY sells the one labeled "Ilford Galerie
    Professional Injet Photo Range Smooth Gloss Paper", I have never seen
    the pearl type in there. And I've been buying the smooth gloss paper
    from them for several years now. It is always in the same packaging,
    and is marked as 250 gsm (or grams/sq.meter). I've never test weighed
    in out of the dozens of boxes I've used, but I have checked its
    thickness regularly with a dial caliper, and it consistently falls in
    the same range from box to box.

    Of some interest to me, at least, I tried to find their smooth pearl
    paper there, and have been told they do not carry it. And I even
    tried to find it listed on their web site, some months ago, but it was
    not listed. So, how did you manage to get some from them at all? I
    ended up ordering it from B&H Photo, and they were out of the 100
    sheet boxes, and had to buy it in 250 sheet box.

    Just don't understand the furor.

    Olin McDaniel
     
    Olin K. McDaniel, Apr 5, 2005
  10. SamSez

    SamSez Guest

    a) as I said in the original post, the pearl is available via the web site --
    not the local club stores. Recent boxes of smooth gloss even contain a flyer
    suggesting you go to the website for the pearl. Just go to the web site and
    search for 'ilford'. They'll be happy to ups you a pack -- though as of
    tonight, it looks like the 8.5x11 pearl has dried up and only the 4x6 pearl is
    listed.

    b) the 'furor' is this: if you buy an Ilford sample pack, or buy Ilford smooth
    gloss or smooth pearl from a photo supply shop, or look on the Ilford web site,
    what you get from any of those sources is not the same as what you bought at
    sams -- even though there is only one type described on the Ilford web site and
    only one type described in the sample pack. Both have exactly the same name,
    but the sams version is 250gsm while the Ilford web site [and photo supply
    shops, and sample packs] only have a 280gsm version [with the exact same name].

    If you are happy with the 250, that's great -- but it isn't the same as what is
    sold elsewhere.

    Complaints about various countries health systems not withstanding, that's the
    furor.
     
    SamSez, Apr 5, 2005

  11. OK, I'll concede one thing and not the other. I was unable to find
    the 8X10 Ilford Pearl on Sam's Club web site, when I tried to buy
    some, admittedly not knowing there were two grades. That's when I
    ordered it from B&H. You seem to admit not being able to get it from
    Sam's even yourself.

    Now the concession, after you called my attention to the different
    B.W. (Basis Weight in the paper manufacturing business, with which I'm
    very familiar) - I looked on my various boxes of the smooth and all
    from Sam's show 250 g/sm. And the box of the pearl which I ordered
    from B&H shows 280 g/sm. So, unless you look very carefully at the
    boxes, it is easy to be hoodwinked - BUT they DO show the difference
    on the boxes. There are a couple of other subtle differences on the
    boxes, but unless you were alerted to look, you might not notice.
    Just to confirm this, I compared notes with another local buyer of
    Ilford papers, and he had a box of the smooth that he'd bought at a
    retailer and it showed 280 g/sm, whereas all mine from Sam's show 250
    g/sm. Another interesting difference that we had earlier spotted, his
    box showed it came from a Switzerland source, whereas the Sam's Club
    product shows it came from a British source. Gotta look close on the
    back of the boxes, to see this.

    As to being "happy with the 250", I'll simply state it's been the best
    of any brand I've ever used so far on my Canon i950. There may be
    bettersmooth papers, but I've not found them. The Konica brand (later
    to be rebranded under Office Depot's name) is a close second, but now
    having found this Ilford - I'm staying here with it, and it's much
    cheaper than that from Office Depot as well.

    Olin McDaniel
     
    Olin K. McDaniel, Apr 6, 2005
  12. SamSez

    Plan9 Guest

    My Sam's Club Ilford is 250/gsm and says "Made in Japan" on the back
    of the box. Appears Ilford has contracted it's paper mfg to several
    sources.

    --Ben
     
    Plan9, Apr 7, 2005
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