warehouse club warning

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by SamSez, Mar 25, 2005.

  1. Maybe so, or maybe I'm not being clear with my thoughts. I think maybe I'm trying to
    understand the dichotomy of doing business to a giant. How does a company keep on
    supplying Sam's when they constantly demand lower price points? They love the
    initial sales jump. Then the return margin shrinks little by little.

    Ilford doesn't want to sell crap, but Sam's demands lower prices. A choice is to
    elect to stop supplying to Sam's. So Sam's now goes to Agfa, who think they can do
    the job and make money. Their market share grows. Ilford loses a large percentage of
    business and stock values take a big hit.

    Okay. You're right. I don't have a solution to the ebb and flow of global market
    forces.

    So how then does Ilford, or Acme Lens Cleaner Corp. keep it's quality benchmark when
    they get less and less revenue.

    There is also diminishing return for some long-lived products.

    I bought an electric shaver from Costco years ago. Good product, great price.
    Costco sold a ton of them, then, seemingly, everyone who wanted one, now had one. So
    Costco dropped it. Shelf space has to have a given return, so out it goes.

    Now the manufacturer has all this idle equipment and revenue drops.
     
    Petey the Wonder Dog, Mar 27, 2005
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  2. A regular occurance.
    How can you know that is true? Are you saying that if I sell a widget to Costco, and
    they make me lots of money, I'll drop Costco as my retailer of choice and sell to
    Dollar General?
    I can't think of an example of a product market that was created by Costco's low
    price, where the manufacturer no longer needed Costco and decided to sell to others
    instead.
    Have they "chosen" to stop selling to Costco because other stores were willing to pay
    more?
    Or maybe has Costco squeezed them to the point they can no longer get a usable
    profit?
    Or maybe the publics desire for a particular product went away.
    Or maybe it was just a seasonal product.

    Neither of us can clearly know, and certainly there are different causes and affects
    for different products, so we prolly agree and disagree on different things.
     
    Petey the Wonder Dog, Mar 27, 2005
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  3. But Agfa has the same problem as Ilford.

    Therefore, it's not a given by ANY stretch that Agfa's market share
    grows.
     
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Mar 27, 2005
  4. Judging by the shit that Walmart puts on it's shelves, I can't agree with you on that
    one.
     
    Petey the Wonder Dog, Mar 27, 2005
  5. SamSez

    Thumper Guest

    Unfortunately the buying public has long ago substituted price for
    quality.
    Thumper
    To reply drop XYZ in address
     
    Thumper, Mar 27, 2005
  6. What the hell kind of response is that? OK, I can
    play. Santa Clause wears gray suits. Bye, you
    are obviously a troll.
     
    George E. Cawthon, Mar 27, 2005
  7. The world is not static, it keeps changing. A
    company competes by responding. Sometimes a
    quality product just goes away because nobody
    wants it. No matter how high quality a typewriter
    is, sales would be slow at $20.

    You are looking at ways to blame poor quality on
    Walmart, but Walmart doesn't run the business
    world. Most stuff has a rather narrow range of
    quality where it works and below that quality it
    just doesn't work and won't sell. E.g., bottled
    water is either clean or not and sales are based
    mostly on hype. Aspirin is either the right
    stuff or not (no chance for quality adjustment).

    But take Ilford, which is an old company and knows
    what goes on. Photographic papers have very
    distinct names and characteristics, they have to
    be consistent or photographers will go elsewhere.
    I suspect that papers for printing inkjet images
    are similar. A company may make papers for
    specific segments of the buying population, not to
    satisfy the needs of a retailer. There is no way
    that Sam's dictates what Ilford makes. If they
    don't produce what the public wants, they go down
    hill. If the public wants crap, they will
    probably make a "model" that is crap, but like
    most companies of the type they also publish
    brochures of what the various types are suited for.

    BTW, your last point is bogus. Electric shavers
    don't last that long and they demand a constant
    supply of maintenance products. Costco still
    sells electric shavers, maybe just not the brand
    you bought (probably because people moved on to
    another brand). Most people, btw, still use the
    old fashion safety razor and foam in a can. Twin
    blades kind of made sense, but three blades and
    four blades don't. That nonsense will eventually
    pass.
     
    George E. Cawthon, Mar 27, 2005
  8. SamSez

    measekite Guest

    Enough with this already. It has been trampled to death.
     
    measekite, Mar 27, 2005
  9. No that was a response to your saying that sellers
    to Costco have to reduce the quality of their
    merchandise. And I am refuting that.

    What I am saying is that one of the reasons the
    product disappears from Costco, is that it
    develops a market and spreads to other stores that
    pay more for the product. New products are sold
    to various stores, and Costco introduces a lot of
    those along with other stores. Costco drops the
    product, other stores continue to carry it. The
    product didn't go away, it is still being sold.
    How does that fit with your explanation of Costco
    squeezing them out?
     
    George E. Cawthon, Mar 27, 2005
  10. Oh, I didn't say they don't have poor quality
    goods. People are willing to pay for poorer
    quality if the price is low enough.

    What I said, is that people who are willing to buy
    a product at a specific price, will not be willing
    to continue buying at the price if the product
    quality goes down. They may select another
    equally poor quality product at a lower price, or
    they may select a better quality product at the
    same price.

    There is no argument that there is a wide range of
    quality in some products and people buy all ranges
    of quality. But price and quality come as a
    package. Only the really dumb pay top dollar for
    poor quality.
     
    George E. Cawthon, Mar 27, 2005
  11. SamSez

    leo Guest


    Costco is definitely _not_ the place where new products be put in the
    market.
     
    leo, Mar 28, 2005

  12. Right. I have never seen a product that appeared at Costco before
    anywhere else.
     
    Oliver Costich, Mar 28, 2005
  13. SamSez

    Big Bill Guest


    What goofup at Ilford?
    Did you read the OP's post? Ilford's response to his query?
    There was no goofup. The paper has a different number then the OP was
    used to, even though the name was the same. IOW, Ilford, Sam's, and
    others who actually shop well know there's a difference.

    When I shop at Costco (I don't use Sam's, but the difference is
    slight at best) and find a product that appears to be the same as I'm
    used to somewhere else, but the price is appreciably lower, I know it
    ain't the lack of tile on the floor that accounts for the difference.
    I've been shopping for a few years now. I know, for example, that
    warehouse stores often have products made specially for them with
    different specs that what smaller stores buy from, for example,
    Ilford's catalog.
    TANSTAAFL.
     
    Big Bill, Mar 28, 2005
  14. SamSez

    measekite Guest

    Not True, Sams is a warehouse Walmart.
     
    measekite, Mar 28, 2005
  15. SamSez

    Big Bill Guest

    Never say never.
    Indeed, there are scenarios where reduced sales mean higher profits.
    For example, a "shortage" of a popular item (brought on by reduced
    production) can allow a company to charge more.
    Remember the gas "shortages" of the late 70s?
     
    Big Bill, Mar 28, 2005
  16. SamSez

    leo Guest


    If it's not the same, Ilford should use a different name, besides
    packaging. Call it special edition, or silver, or Sams special,
    whatever. It's not electronics, people don't look at the model #.
     
    leo, Mar 28, 2005
  17. Right. Photographic papers and film are know by
    their names, e.g. Kodabromide F3 SW is a specific
    paper regardless of any batch number.

    And Kodak Premium Picture Paper for inkjet prints,
    high gloss, is a specific paper. Even though it
    can be designated by numbers, Kodak themselves
    normally refer to it by name. Keeping the name
    and giving it another number (meaning it is
    different) would be fraud. Most office supplies
    go by name even if they have a number designation.
     
    George E. Cawthon, Mar 28, 2005
  18. SamSez

    Big Bill Guest

    You're trying to pick nits.
    There are few differences to the consumer between Sam's and Costco,
    other than idealogical ones.
     
    Big Bill, Mar 28, 2005
  19. SamSez

    Big Bill Guest

    I happen to agree.
    However, that's not the reality we have to deal with.
    You're welcome to complain, and that might change things, *in the
    future*. In the meantime, we must deal with reality as it exists.
     
    Big Bill, Mar 28, 2005

  20. I places I have lived that have both a Sams and a Costco, the COstoc
    seems to carry more upscale merchandise.
     
    Oliver Costich, Mar 28, 2005
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