warehouse club warning

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by SamSez, Mar 25, 2005.

  1. SamSez

    SamSez Guest

    I recently noticed that Sams Club was carrying "Ilford Galerie Professional
    Inkjet Photo Range Smooth Gloss Paper" [sic] in 100 sheet boxes, and through
    their web site you could also order "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo
    Range Smooth Pearl Paper" [sic], so I bought two boxes of the gloss and one of
    the pearl.

    Only when I went to make a print on the pearl, I saw immediately that it was
    different than the "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range Smooth Pearl
    Paper" that I had used previously. It had a lower base brightness, a duller
    finish and felt thinner despite the box being apparently the same size.

    Here's Ilford's response:

    "Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are dissapointed. the Sam`s
    Club version of our media is NOT the same as the general brand found in Pro
    dealers and is NOT covered in the sample pack. The description of the media in
    the sample pack at 280gsm is correct for the media supplied via our dealer
    channels where the sample pack was purchased. The packaging is very different
    for the Sam`s media and sorry to say that you should have purchased the media
    via the same dealer route as the sample pack. Your comments will be passed over
    to our marketing group, but the Sam`s media although to the same standards is
    very different and is why the media is cheaper. We do not include the Sam`s
    version in our sample packs as this is the only outlet for this version
    generally. "

    Kind of interesting that the name on the box is exactly the same for two "very
    different" products.

    Sigh....
     
    SamSez, Mar 25, 2005
    #1
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  2. "Many thanks for your email. We are sorry thqat you are
    This is very common with mega-outlets. Walmart, Costco (I think),
    Home Depot, etc., all commission products to their own lower
    specifications, and then sell those products cheaper than their
    competitors. At Home Depot, at least, these products usually
    (always?) have a different product number, with an "a" at the end, for
    example.

    -Joel
     
    Dr. Joel M. Hoffman, Mar 25, 2005
    #2
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  3. SamSez

    measekite Guest

    Costco sells the Kirkland (store) brand. While we think it is made by
    Ilford, they make no claim to that. The nice thing about Costco is that
    they have a return policy unmatched by other. Sams club is Walmart. I
    do not like the way they take advantage of their employees and see no
    advantage of doing business with them.
     
    measekite, Mar 25, 2005
    #3
  4. They do have a nice return policy. So does Sam's and WalMart.

    You'd be surprised at how Costco deals with HR issues.
     
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Mar 25, 2005
    #4
  5. SamSez

    Pete Guest

    Any company that pulls tricks like this deserves to go bankrupt. Ooops...
    Ilford IS bankrupt. Justice?

    Pete
     
    Pete, Mar 25, 2005
    #5
  6. SamSez

    Marvin Guest

    That's the case for other kinds of products. A suit or dress from a top-name designer may look
    similar in a discount store and a higher-cost store, but there are differences in the material and
    the quality of manufacture. Caveat emptor.
     
    Marvin, Mar 25, 2005
    #6
  7. SamSez

    measekite Guest

    Ilford did not pull tricks. They just sold a reduced quality product
    based on a customers specifications and packaged it differently.
    Hopefully they gave it a different name. The tricks are from Walmart.
     
    measekite, Mar 25, 2005
    #7
  8. Nope. The tricks aren't from Walmart. They're from the paper
    manufacturer.

    If I buy a Toyota from a Toyota dealer, then I buy from from Walmart, I
    expect to get a Toyota. It's labeled a Toyota, has the same window
    sticker, etc.

    I do not expect to get a Ford engine and cheaper seats for the
    IDENTICALLY LABELED Toyota.

    Ilford wrapped materially different paper inside the same wrapper as
    what they use for their dealer stuff. That's just plain WRONG.

    When you label them identically, the consumer has every expectation that
    the same stuff is inside.

    I don't expect to open a can of Campbell's chicken noodle soup that I
    got from Sam's Club and find dog food inside. If that happens, you
    can't blame Walmart.

    Get off your Walmart high horse. Hey, here's a thought: go investigate
    Costco's employment practices.

    Be prepared for what you'll find.
     
    Elmo P. Shagnasty, Mar 25, 2005
    #8
  9. SamSez

    measekite Guest

    In Ilfords email they said the packaging was differenrt. However, if
    the name was the same or very similar I agree with you on that. Walmart
    is not a very nice company to work for. I seem many reports on their
    practices. Customers do save money buy there are other places to save
    and shop. Just look at all of the law suits against them.
     
    measekite, Mar 25, 2005
    #9
  10. SamSez

    Crownfield Guest

    did the wrappers look similar,
    or were the product numbers the same?

    many products come in multiple flavors for different buyers.
     
    Crownfield, Mar 25, 2005
    #10
  11. SamSez

    SamSez Guest

    I would claim that this is RARELY the case for other kinds of products -- at
    least when they are from the SAME maker and LABELED with the SAME LABEL.
     
    SamSez, Mar 25, 2005
    #11
  12. SamSez

    SamSez Guest

    In case I didn't make it clear enough in my original post, they did NOT give it
    a different name. That is my point.
     
    SamSez, Mar 25, 2005
    #12
  13. SamSez

    SamSez Guest

    As noted in my original post, the name [all NINE WORDS in the name] were
    IDENTICAL.
     
    SamSez, Mar 25, 2005
    #13
  14. SamSez

    SamSez Guest

    The FULL ENTIRE NINE WORD name is the same. The packaging is very similar but
    not identical, but as we all know, packaging is updated all the time.

    I contend that if you are going to call it the same thing -- to that level of
    sameness -- it had better BE the same thing [try this trick with prescription
    drugs, I dare you...]

    Go to the Sams Club website -- look up Ilford. Then open a second window on
    Ilford's website.

    As Ilford only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet Photo Range Smooth
    Pearl Paper" and Sams Club only lists one "Ilford Galerie Professional Inkjet
    Photo Range Smooth Pearl Paper", what am I supposed to expect?
     
    SamSez, Mar 25, 2005
    #14
  15. SamSez

    ASAAR Guest

    You (and we) don't really know who pulled the tricks, but we can
    guess. Do you remember the many deaths caused by Fords using
    Firestone tires? According to some investigative reports I saw,
    Firestone balked at producing tires to Ford's spec's, but gave in
    eventually because of Ford's "If you don't produce them, we'll get
    someone else that will" ultimatum. Walmart has the ability to exert
    even greater pressure on most of its suppliers, and Ilford was
    probably in the weakest bargaining position in its history. And
    speaking of history, given Walmart's, they're much more likely to
    have been involved in specifying the deceptive packaging. If you
    ever shop for groceries at Walmart, if you ever buy hot dogs or some
    other beef product, you might want to consider that just because you
    see a familiar label, to keep costs down Walmart may have pressured
    producers to use cheaper, less well BSE inspected beef sources. :)
     
    ASAAR, Mar 25, 2005
    #15
  16. SamSez

    Douglas Guest

    Don't know about the USA but in Australia and most other civilised countries
    there are laws to protect consumers from such deception. If I were you, I'd
    start at the better business bureau and go from there. If you have described
    the events faithfully here then Wal-Mart have engaged in deceptive and
    misleading advertising. If you were in Australia, you could get some help to
    expose this practice and get the companies involved into court.

    Like I said at the start, the US might allow this sort of behaviour. They
    allow plenty of questionable business activities that are illegal in
    civalised countries. I recall a similar incident in 1968 where a bread maker
    got a contract to supply sliced bread to the Australian Army at a regional
    barracks. To save changing the wrapping machine and resetting it, the
    American owned baker wrapped the Army's bread in a wrapper from the last run
    which was for a lighter loaf.

    The wrapper said one weight but the bread was actually heavier. This
    encouraged the delivery driver to substitute day old returns of (light
    weight) bread for the fresh army bread. The upshot was the American owned
    baker claimed they could package their product anyway they wanted. Not so
    said an Australian court. The baker tried to get the case moved to the US
    where they claimed the practice was not illegal. It didn't work but the
    moral of the story is that you might get away with substitution packing in
    the Good old US of A.

    God bless America,
    land of the free,
    home of the brave and you better not say otherwise or they'll bomb you off
    the face of the Earth!
     
    Douglas, Mar 25, 2005
    #16
  17. SamSez

    leo Guest


    All merchants do that kinds of things. However, intentionally using the
    same name, just different packaging, with lower quality materials, is
    certainly a foul play. It's mostly Iiford's mistake (I prefer to call it
    a mistake, rather than trick) by not using a different name. I doubt the
    purchasing people (and customers) in Sams' Club really know any
    difference between different papper as long as it's from a brand name
    manufacturer.
     
    leo, Mar 25, 2005
    #17
  18. SamSez

    Douglas Guest

    Well at least one knows the difference!
     
    Douglas, Mar 25, 2005
    #18
  19. SamSez

    Crownfield Guest

    the same.
    ask sams why they mislabeled an ilford product.
    note that both are 250/260 g/m weight
    sams does not define brightness.
    ilford does.
     
    Crownfield, Mar 26, 2005
    #19
  20. SamSez

    measekite Guest

    In that case they misrepresented the product. Many times over a few
    year period the same product changes packaging but the name is the
    same. You then have a right to assume that the product is identical. I
    have on many occassions see the same product on the shelf with different
    packaging during the change over. Sometimes the product says it is new
    and improved. Sometimes it is and other times it is just marketing
    bullshit.
     
    measekite, Mar 26, 2005
    #20
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