Vista 64 bit or Windows XP x64 edition ?

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by Guest, Jul 13, 2007.

  1. Guest

    John Barnes Guest

    Can you write a post that doesn't blame everyone else for your mistakes?
    Asking for specific help and providing help is the purpose of these groups,
    not trolling for sympathy and ad hominem attacks.

    'Whatever my reasons for having X64 are my own'

    True, but obviously not based on reason.(the power of being able to think in
    a logical and rational manner)
     
    John Barnes, Jul 24, 2007
    #41
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  2. Guest

    Theo Guest

    I got tired of you carrying on about how screwed up .NET
    Framework was when you were trying to run a 32-bit program
    that had .DLLs that are not compatible with Win x64. You
    were totally obsessed with Microsoft being responsible for
    your mistake and appeared to have no concept of what was
    really going on.
     
    Theo, Jul 24, 2007
    #42
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  3. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You're missing the point of this thread. The author asked for opinions. He
    did not ask for help. Also, I don't understand why you think that I'm
    blaming anyone, let alone for my non-existent mistakes, except for purchasing
    X64.

    Your last post did nothing to help anyone, teach anyone or provide
    assistance in any manner. Your entire post contains insults aimed at me.
    You're contradicting yourself there, John. Is that the only manner in which
    you and other defenders of X64 can use for the os that Microsoft dumped onto
    the market in order to recoup its expenses when there are so many problems
    with it?
     
    Guest, Jul 24, 2007
    #43
  4. Guest

    Guest Guest

    You're grasping at straws there, Theo. We've moved on from there and, again,
    that's not the point of this thread. When asked what one thinks of an os, to
    mention .NET Framework is an example of a problem with the os. To state that
    I'm "totally obsessed" with Microsoft being responsible for your mistake and
    appeared to have no concept of what was really going on" makes no sense nor
    does it address the topic of this thread. Again, your post was written
    solely to insult me. Stay on track here, Theo. Royston wants to know what
    we thing of X64 Pro and Vista X64, not about what you and others think about
    me.

    Again, I repeat, stay on topic.
     
    Guest, Jul 24, 2007
    #44
  5. Guest

    John Barnes Guest

    You are one of the few having problems with XP64. The large majority of
    problems are due to incompatible hardware or software, which is NOT the
    operating systems problem. Most of us had to replace hardware and software
    that was not, and would never be made compatible. Microsoft may have
    released XP64 to gauge their success in developing a 64-bit system, to help
    with the Vista64 release later on, but as to recovering their expenses, you
    must think they are complete business incompetents. The sales of the niche
    system could hardly have been expected to make a dent in the associated
    expenses. It was an investment in the future of computing. Good luck. I
    am going back to my policy of not responding to trolls, so bye, bye and I
    hope your next software purchase is a better experience.

    Incidentally, it is easy to know where you are going without knowing where
    you came from, what you need to know is where you are now.
     
    John Barnes, Jul 24, 2007
    #45
  6. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Well, somebody finally admits that XP Pro X64 is a beta version of Vista X64!
    Thank you!

    You said:

    "Most of us had to replace hardware and software
    that was not, and would never be made compatible. "

    This was never mentioned at the website where I purchased X64 or on the
    package. This fact is major and it should have been stated up-front, the
    fact that it's the beta version for Vista X64.


    I didn't purchase X64 to make "an investment in the future of computing,"
    but for my os." I'm not a guinea pig and I don't like to be treated as such.
    Microsoft didn't mention this fact either.


    I won't respond to your insults in your post. It seems that you and others
    just can't help being rude, immature and blind.


    I wish everyone good luck with X64 and I hope it doesn't sap your pockets
    dry in order to convert your hardware and software to be compatible with X64.
     
    Guest, Jul 24, 2007
    #46
  7. Well, somebody finally admits that XP Pro X64 is a beta version of Vista
    Until there was a Windows x64 Edition, there was no way driver writers or
    software developers could actually support x64. The investments in Windows
    XP Pro x64 Edition and Windows Server 2003 SP1 x64 Edition were made to help
    get the whole ecosystem going for Windows 64-bit. We had a very extended
    Beta for Windows XP Pro x64 Edition trying to give third parties as much
    time as possible to get their support in place, but by in large most of them
    ignored it. That's their decision and choice, not Microsoft. Windows XP Pro
    x64 Edition was never released as a retail product and was only available
    through the OEM channel to help minimize the potential end-user problems
    from having limited driver support from third parties. Again, there's not
    much Microsoft can do about people choosing to buy it and install it without
    having done the necessary research.

    I've been running Windows XP Pro x64 Edition at work for nearly three years
    and it works perfectly fine as long as I recognize that most third parties
    are completely ignoring it. The CPU vendors have done their part selling x64
    CPUs for years. Microsoft has done their part releasing an OS that supports
    x64 in early 2005, putting out software development tools for 64-bit native
    development, and pushing x64 compataiblity through logo programs and its own
    software development efforts. After that, it's up to customer demand and
    third parties to make x64 a success. Without a version of Windows 64-bit and
    customers using it, no third party was going to do anything to support it.
    It's a classic technology problem, and the transition will be with us for
    many years to come.

    Basically Adobe is saying "we didn't bother to write 64-bit native printer
    drivers or a 64-bit ActiveX control for Acrobat 7.0.x". They were prefectly
    capable of doing so, they just chose not to as they probably felt there
    wasn't enough customer demand. This is not a problem with Microsoft or
    Windows 64-bit, but a general approach businesses take towards new
    technology: We'll do the minimum until we have to do something else.

    Please let Adobe (or any other third party supplier of software/hardware
    device) know that you feel their lack of full support of Windows 64-bit is a
    problem. Until they have enough customers telling them to do it, they won't
    bother to put in the extra effort. Venting here or at Microsoft is blaming
    the wrong party for the lack of support.
     
    Chuck Walbourn [MSFT], Jul 25, 2007
    #47
  8. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I understand your logic and it makes sense to a certain point, but as you
    said, "We had a very extended Beta for Windows XP Pro x64 Edition trying to
    give third parties as much time as possible to get their support in place,
    but by in large most of them
    ignored it." So it stopped making sense at that point. There was a
    specific reason(s) why third parties didn't get support in place. They are
    out to make money themselves. If X64 would have given them the opportunity
    to make money, they wouldn't have chosen to ignore getting their support in
    place. I consistently feel that "something is rotten in the state of
    Denmark," but I won't pursue it any longer. For now, I have what I need. If
    X64 doesn't work out, I'll reformat to 2000 XP Pro.

    Your post afforded the opportunity for exchanging thoughts and facts, and I
    appreciate that.

    The reason I mentioned Adobe Acrobat is because someone posted that Adobe
    Acrobat works with her X64 os. Whether or not Adobe writes 64-bit native
    printer
    drivers or a 64-bit ActiveX control for Acrobat 7.0.x doesn't matter to me.
    I use FoxIt and it works well with a X64 os.

    AMD has a 64-bit firmware update for my CPU. When I attempted to install it
    several times, I always received messages that "Setup.exe has failed . . ."
    Today, I reformatted my computer two times to get the CPU firmware updated
    and it finally worked the second time. These types of problems never
    occurred with the other versions of Windows, or at least I never had such
    problems. Since it was a Microsoft error message, the reason the CPU
    firmware update couldn't be installed was the fault of Microsoft's X64 os.
    Since I was able to install the updated 64-bit CPU firmware after I
    reformatted the second time tells me that X64 isn't working properly.
    Something is missing in X64.
    --
    Denise

    ~ If you don't know where you came from, you won't know where you're going.
     
    Guest, Jul 25, 2007
    #48
  9. Chuck, I couldn't agree more. Like you, I've been running XP x64 full time
    for quite a while - got my first x64 capable box in January of 2005, and
    haven't looked back since. I've had a remarkably stable and well performing
    system. That box is still running XP x64 (now in a dual boot with LH 64),
    and has only had one re-install. When I went from the RC code to the RTM
    version, I did a clean, fresh install. Of course, I buy hardware with betas
    and new OSs in mind, and do my homework on drivers, etc.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jul 26, 2007
    #49
  10. Guest

    Guest Guest

    It's too bad that Microsoft didn't state on the package or in its advertising
    13 months ago, when I purchased it, that X64 wasn't compatible with existing
    hardware and software. Considering whether existing hardware would be
    compatible when upgrading from Windows 95, to 98, to XP Home, and to 2000 XP
    Pro wasn't an issue. Not everyone has the money to buy new hardware and
    software when they upgrade their os. Since it appears that you have pretty
    good cash flow to continuously purchase new hardware and software with betas
    and new operating systems in mind, maybe you can put some of it to use by
    giving third parties the initiative to get their support in place. As the
    author of this thread has had sufficient time to see how Vista X64 and Pro
    X64 work, he was smart to inquire about the others' opinions of the two
    64-bit programs. It is the way I would have done it 13 months ago when I
    purchased XP Pro X64 but the opinion of all people, such as yourself, made be
    feel secure that X64 was compatible with hardware and software that I
    purchased to build my computer.

    So for all those who don't have a lot of money to continuously purchase new
    hardware and software that is needed for a 64-bit system, stick with your
    32-bit system until you can afford it because it can get expensive. Updated
    drivers sometimes aren't sufficient for 32-bit hardware and software, such as
    my new all-in-one printer that no longer has the scanning and faxing
    capabilities that it had with my 32-bit system. The updated 64-bit driver
    "fixes" the scanning function but, ironically, it won't scan to a Microsoft
    Word document.

    I wonder how many people, other than MVP's and "computer gurus", understand
    most of Charlie's statement:

    "That box is still running XP x64 (now in a dual boot with LH 64),
    and has only had one re-install. When I went from the RC code to the RTM
    version, I did a clean, fresh install."

    This past week, I formatted my computer two times because X64 could not
    install the new CPU firmware that I had.

    http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=130536

    It's no surprise that you would agree with other Microsoft MVP's in this
    matter Charlie. It's your responsibility to do so.
    --
    Denise

    ~ If you don't know where you came from, you won't know where you're going.
     
    Guest, Jul 27, 2007
    #50
  11. You purchased an OEM or System Builder version. As such, you or your OEM are
    responsible for support and due diligence. That's why it's not a retail
    version.

    No, I don't have cash flow to buy new hardware. But when I _do_ buy
    hardware, I buy with interoperability in mind. I buy printers, for example,
    that don't require special drivers - they're standard, network connected,
    PCL5 and PS enabled, printers. They work with everything. And I keep them
    for years. I've had my current HP printer for 5 or 6 years, and I can print
    to it from any version of windows, from Linux, from UNIX, and from a Mac.
    Without loading any special drivers. That's simply a matter of spending
    money wisely. Yes, that printer cost me a bit more originally - probably an
    extra $150 though I don't specifically remember. But it's still going
    strong.

    As for third parties? I have a long history of spending my money only with
    companies who do the right thing. And I write about it and make
    recommendations based on that.

    I'd suggest that you should stop blaming everyone else and get on with it.
    This forum is for helping users. That's why I come here, on my own time, and
    my own dime - to help build this community and provide support for people
    who want and need it. I've been doing that every day for over two years.
    While running x64 XP and Vista on my main machines. And yes, I've certainly
    had more than one strong discussion with a vendor who didn't provide the
    support I thought they should. Including MS. But ultimately, I make my
    point, make my decision, and move on.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jul 27, 2007
    #51
  12. Oh, and one thing. I am proud of being an MVP - it's a recognition that I
    don't ask for but that is all about my contributions. However, it does
    absolutely nothing to change what I say about MS, nor does it constrain me
    in any way. My opinions are my own, they always have been, and always will
    be. I've disagreed with MVPs, I've disagreed with MS, and I'm sure I will
    again. Being an MVP doesn't mean I (or any other) has to support MS on any
    specific point. My award as an MVP is annual, and only recognizes my
    contributions LAST year. not anything I may say or do this year. We're
    independent (and often VERY independent) of Microsoft. And will always be
    so.

    --
    Charlie.
    http://msmvps.com/xperts64
    http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jul 27, 2007
    #52
  13. Guest

    XS11E Guest

    I sympathize with you, I've been on that exact same road when I tried
    to upgrade from Windows 98se to Windows 2000.

    I had to bite (byte? <G>) the bullet and scrap a VERY expensive bit of
    hardware because Windows 2000 and later wouldn't support it. However,
    I realized the problem was NOT MICROSOFT! The problem was Epson's
    refusal to write a driver for a scanner that had cost $1,200 only two
    years previously.

    I'm not angry with Microsoft, it's not their fault that Epson decided I
    had to buy a new scanner and guess what brand I didn't consider when
    choosing my new scanner?

    There's a certain amount of preparation involved in changing to a new
    OS and that involves the old standard RTFM* and as I often explain to
    newbies, RTFM includes these newsgroups! Only then can you have enough
    information to make an informed decision and, in my case, the decision
    to install Vista 64 was to dual boot until I could be sure that
    everything would work in the new OS.

    Again, I'm very sorry you had to learn the hard way but you really
    can't blame anyone but yourself and please take this from one who did
    exactly the same thing you have done and also had to learn the hard
    way...



    *RTFM = "Read The Fine Manual" <-Luu Tran
     
    XS11E, Jul 27, 2007
    #53
  14. Guest

    Guest Guest

    All bases have been covered here. I don't think there's a point that hasn't
    been brought up and posted.

    I just formatted my computer two times two days ago. If I have a file that
    I want to copy to another drive, when I attempt to change the name of it, I
    receive a message that the file is in use, even though it's not in use. It
    finished copying and it's not open. When I reboot, I still can't change the
    name because I receive the message that the file is in use. X64 is bad news.
    I wanted to give X64 another chance by formatting my pc with X64. I had to
    do it two times in order to update the CPU driver. I also downloaded and
    installed new drivers for the chipset, audio and video. The audio is fine
    but the video has problems. I have automatic updates turned on and all of
    them have been installed, including SP2. I don't have Excel or Access
    installed in my pc but Microsoft uploads updates for them I'll be formatting
    it to 32-bit Windows 2000 XP Pro in a few weeks when I have a couple of days
    to format it and install my programs. I'll try X64 next year and see how
    things go.

    I don't know why you accused me of blaming anyone for the problems that I
    have with X64 . . . I have never done that.

    This forum may be for helping others but this thread requested opinions of
    the two X64 operating system, not for help with it. Everyone seems to miss
    that point or they choose to ignore it.

    You've made your point, so move on, as you claim you do.
    --
    Denise

    ~ If you don't know where you came from, you won't know where you're going.
     
    Guest, Jul 27, 2007
    #54
  15. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I have never had to purchase new hardware or software when I updated from one
    operating system to another, except for X64. I do blame Microsoft because it
    gave no warning that it isn't compatible with hardware, software, drivers and
    firmware. If these problems had not been hidden by Microsoft, then I would
    accept the blame, but no such warnings were given. I learned that Microsoft
    will not reveal all the facts regarding its software, so buyer beware.
    --
    Denise

    ~ If you don't know where you came from, you won't know where you're going.
     
    Guest, Jul 27, 2007
    #55
  16. Guest

    XS11E Guest

    Denise, that's really hogwash and you know it. Nothing is/was hidden,
    it's up to you do do your homework.
     
    XS11E, Jul 27, 2007
    #56
  17. Guest

    John Barnes Guest

    Hear, hear. :)

     
    John Barnes, Jul 27, 2007
    #57
  18. If you never had to buy new ware's when you changed over, that has to be
    because you were a late adopter. Everybody else (all the early adopters)
    have consistently had problems with all the new OS's.

    Can you remember Windows 3.0? It came on 13 Floppies - 5 of which were
    printer drivers, if I'm not mistaken. That is why MS came up with the notion
    of 'Device Independency'. This concept means that Microsoft takes care of
    maintaining a 'Subsystem' for which everybody who wants to have their
    hardware to function with the particular OS has to supply their own driver
    that is now an integral part of the hardware. And MS wasn't even doing this
    based on it's power to dictate. At that time Word Perfect was released on 9
    Floppies 3 of which were pretty much the same printer drivers, but they were
    not compatible because one worked from the OS's side, and the other worked
    from the user's side. This was an unmentionable nuicance to everybody and
    the whole industry drew a sigh of relief in view of the new order.

    Unfortunately this also meant that the hardware manufacturers could now
    decide how fast their products was aging, so if you have been hanging on to
    some valuable hardware for some time you may unknowingly have sheilded
    yourself from this impact. But it's not new. We are all frustrated about it
    when it hits us, but it is far better than what it used to be like.

    It's nice to have someone around that you can allways blame whenever
    something goes wrong, but Microsoft cannot tell the hardware manufacturers
    when one of their products are old enough to be scrapped. If you feel left
    behind, learn to blame the guilty party, the one that sucks up your cash by
    not supporting the OS that you invested in. There is nothing wrong with the
    OS, you made a reasonable investment - the lacking support only starts after
    the OS is released and MS cannot be blamed for that, even if the rest of
    us - sitting around in the glow of our monitors, may sometimes think to
    ourselves that they are in cahoots (which they are) but your trouble doesn't
    start there. MS makes a wonderful product, if nobody buys it, it dies, and
    you'll have saved your money. On the other hand, if everybody buys it but
    all the printer manufacturers chose not to support it, it dies too and your
    money is wasted. That is how it really works. Can you begin to imagine now,
    the amount of defunct hardware that sits between all of us here.

    Now I am really pissed off with MS for having sold me a joystick that they
    decided to discontinue. As with all other hardware the joystick needs a
    driver - this driver MS wrote and supplied with the 'stick', but when they
    discontinued the hardware, they also didn't write any updates for the driver
    so now I am stranded with a joystick that doesn't have a driver for the OS
    that I bought from Microsoft. As a revenge I promptly installed my legal
    copy of XP Home on two different machines, so that I could put my valued
    joystick, not just to good use - but to any use. That's how much of a MS fan
    I am - but XP x64 really is a wonderful OS.


    Tony. . .
     
    Tony Sperling, Jul 28, 2007
    #58
  19. Guest

    Guest Guest

    Oh Blah blah!

    Your status as MVP has nothing to do with this thread. Stay on topic.

    I'm a mother who raised two children. One is an LPN and taking courses to
    become an RN. She then plans to continue her education to become a
    physician's assistant. She's married, works full time and has a 5 year old
    son.

    My son became of member of the National Honor Society in his Freshman year .
    .. . the first Freshman to become a member of the NHS in six years. In his
    Sophmore year, he was elected President of the National Honor Society and
    remained President of the NHS in his Junior and Senior years. He was elected
    as Student Body President in his Sophmore year and remained Study Body
    President through his Senior year. He graduated with 75% of the honors
    during graduation ceremony and received a full two year scholarship from our
    local community college.

    Me? I was just the mother who raised them with the character, morals,
    drive, love and zest for life, to excel in all things and to do their best in
    all that they do, nothing half-hearted, to become a credit to society and to
    give back to it as much as they could.

    I just figured if you could stray from the topic, so could I. At least I
    accomplished something well worth mentioning, not something as paultry as
    knowing a lot about computers.

    Since you claim to know so much about computers, tell me why I can't change
    the name of a file that's not in use. Tell me why my settings keep changing.
    Tell me why I couldn't update the firmware for my CPU without reformatting
    it two times. My hdd, CPU and mobo are compatible and they were made to be
    compatible with X64, so why don't they work?

    Tell the author of this thread which os is better . . . Vista or XP Pro!
     
    Guest, Jul 28, 2007
    #59
  20. :)
     
    Charlie Russel - MVP, Jul 28, 2007
    #60
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