Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by opium, Feb 10, 2006.

  1. In defense of Linux, for office users who need only email, a browser, a
    spreadsheet and a word processor, OpenOffice makes that case very
    powerfully. Or rather, it makes an excellent case for not buying a copy
    of MS Office for everyone in a department. OpenOffice is a really
    decent suite of programs, and is available for several operating
    Eric Schreiber, Feb 12, 2006
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  2. opium

    Guest Guest

    it is more of an economical road block than political. linux users
    don't tend to want to pay for software so software developers have a
    tough time allocating resources to it.
    microsoft and apple aren't sitting still either. perhaps linux will
    catch up but the target is also moving.
    all of them. while there may be apps that are similar, they all lack
    one or more features, and often very important features which at best,
    makes for a convoluted workflow, and at worst, precludes their use at
    all. for instance, there isn't anything that matches the combination
    of adobe photoshop, bridge and camera raw. the gimp lacks a number of
    things, including cmyk, adjustment layers and a huge selection of third
    party filters, tutorials and books. and as far as i know, there is
    nothing on linux that connects to google earth's database. not what i
    would consider 'equivalent.'

    want more? garmin's gps software is required for full functionality of
    their gps hardware. another is apple's aperture and adobe lightroom -
    there isn't anything that comes close. there also isn't any way to buy
    music or videos online from the itunes music store or napster.
    true, some are better and some are worse. however, if you are going to
    offer linux as a replacement for windows, it needs to *be* a
    replacement. perhaps it can be for some people, but for a lot of
    people, it isn't.
    are you really claiming that adobe will release creative suite for
    linux? the gimp has a *long* way to go to catch up and even if it did,
    photoshop isn't sitting still. besides, people need solutions *today*
    not some time in the future.
    Guest, Feb 12, 2006
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  3. Perhaps so, but it is an arbitrary decision that is out of the hands of
    most users. The rank-and-file office grunt uses whatever the company
    provides, which is usually Windows. Those users *cannot* use Linux.

    By far the most important obstacles are business road blocks. For
    example, there is no good business case for rewriting the software my
    company produces for Linux. As you say, there's no technical obstacle -
    I've got the tools and the skills to do it right now. But it would be a
    terrible business move, because it would take 6 to 12 months to do, and
    when we were done none of our customers would want it.
    Eric Schreiber, Feb 12, 2006
  4. It may well be some sort of embedded Linux. I don't know either.

    On the subject of firewalls, I actually use two - the hardware one that
    by default comes with my router, and ZoneAlarm (I prefer it over the
    built-in Windows firewall). I use the software firewall to watch for
    programs that might try to phone home. This one isn't a Windows vs.
    Linux issue (how's that for a switch?) but just a case of me wanting
    complete control over what can or cannot talk to the outside world.
    Diskeeper, for example, is a really nice defragmenter (that's one of
    those things you Linux folks don't need to worry about, I believe). I
    was happy to pay for such a good program. But I can't for the life of
    me figure out any legitimate reason it needs to access the net, so when
    it tried, I blocked it.

    There are other examples as well, though they escape me at the moment -
    this machine is relatively new so I don't have much of a block list
    built up just yet.
    Eric Schreiber, Feb 12, 2006
  5. I use both. See message of a minute or two ago for discussion.
    Eric Schreiber, Feb 12, 2006
  6. Beats me. I've been using ZoneAlarm for a long time, so I just shut off
    the Windows one in favor of the tool I'm familiar with. I consider it
    something of a minor miracle that the Windows security system
    recognizes third party firewalls.
    Eric Schreiber, Feb 12, 2006
  7. *Reasonably knowledgable* Windows users (e.g. geeks like me) take
    pretty much the same precautions as their Unix/Linux counterparts.
    Unfortunately, the majority of Windows users seem to be blithering
    idiots. As I've said before, my main defense against viruses is "don't
    run that". Most Windows users seem unable to grasp that. Again, the
    problem is the users.

    Boy, that WMF thing was a real fustercluck, wasn't it? That was a
    really unusual case in that it was the only attack I've ever
    encountered that actually could take out a Windows system where the
    user was careful. I slapped together a throw-away VM and went surfing
    the dark underbelly of the web, and my VM did, indeed, get infected
    right away. Perhaps that's the exception that proves the rule. Perhaps
    not. In any case, no argument - Microsoft screwed the pooch on that.

    Sure - that was really all I was saying in the first place.
    Eric Schreiber, Feb 12, 2006
  8. opium

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Only a true Unix guru, or a person with advanced terminal masochism
    would want a non-GUI version of Unix. Been there, done that. NEVER
    again. Imagine working with 200 servers all with non-GUI Unix on them!
    Good reason to retire early!
    Ron Hunter, Feb 12, 2006
  9. opium

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Well, 'haven't', yet. I would HOPE that such a thing doesn't happen (I
    enjoy the internet), but can think of at least one workable scenario to
    accomplish it, and if I can.......
    Ron Hunter, Feb 12, 2006
  10. Hehe, matter of taste, I suppose. I got my start in DOS, so a command
    line doesn't deter me. I also spent nine years doing remote maintenance
    and admin of several SCO servers via dial-up - a GUI is a damned
    unpleasant thing at 9600 baud!

    Oddly, while I really like the Windows GUI, I'm not very comfortable
    with a Unix GUI. Seems like the real power of Unix is at the command
    line, and using a GUI sort of separates you from that power. There
    never was much power at the DOS command line, so going to Windows was
    an improvement.

    About the only things I run a command prompt for in Windows these days
    are grep and touch.
    Eric Schreiber, Feb 12, 2006
  11. opium

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Nahhh, just that pimply-faced teen selling it to commercial ventures who
    will mine it for useful addresses, and phone numbers to spam users to
    DEATH. Much more dangerous that the government, as they already HAVE
    all your information....
    Ron Hunter, Feb 12, 2006
  12. opium

    Ron Hunter Guest

    Using Windows, it is not so much what you DO that renders one save, but
    what you DON'T do. The precautions are simple, and not a bit difficult,
    even for the non-technical. A good start is avoiding use of IE/OE
    completely, and keeping all OS patches current. Beyond that, just don't
    go to links in email messages, and don't open attachments that haven't
    been scanned for viruses. Not at all difficult.
    Ron Hunter, Feb 12, 2006
  13. opium

    imbsysop Guest

    yeah .. sure, certainly if you have enough knowledge and a day's time to
    properly configure it ..
    imbsysop, Feb 12, 2006
  14. opium

    imbsysop Guest

    yeah sure .. and Suse isn't any more transparant while Ubuntu (not Ubantu)
    is a joke .. it's clearly the mimicry of the simple Windows install and
    Knoppix its only value is to be able to debug a problematic Windows system
    ... geez dude I'm Linux registered user 63K+ and at that time I was told
    Linux (and all its clones) was going to blow MS out of the waters .. oh boy
    I'm still waiting and I hope I will see something moving before I get
    retired, but don't keep up your hopes .. it doesn't really seem to get out
    of the freaky-attic-dweller-geek-toy sphere ... as a server it is perfect
    but as a day2say workstation for working! it still remains a joke .. sorry
    imbsysop, Feb 12, 2006
  15. opium

    ASAAR Guest

    I also use ZoneAlarm, but it's reasonable to suppose that most
    people, especially if they're first-time computer users would use
    only what MS provided with their new OS. It could be months or
    years before many of them even become aware of more effective
    firewalls. If the one built into Windows still doesn't filter
    bidirectionally it's better than nothing, but it still leaves
    systems more vulnerable than they should be.
    ASAAR, Feb 12, 2006
  16. opium

    ASAAR Guest

    That must be how I got on the "No Fly To Texas" list.

    ASAAR, Feb 12, 2006
  17. opium

    Andrew Haley Guest

    It would be much harder now, partly because the Internet is much more
    heterogeneous than it was. Back when "all the world's a VAX" and was
    running more-or-less the same version of UNIX it was a lot easier.
    And, of course, a lot of people have done a lot of work making the
    systems secure.

    Andrew Haley, Feb 12, 2006
  18. Claiming that is not at all difficult is fine, but not true: we
    know for a fact that every time a new virus is released
    *millions* of computers are infected, and that people who are not
    technically include or experienced with computers will have no
    idea that any of that is significant.

    One look at Usenet headers will tell you that millions of people
    are using OE. I cannot imagine that the *average* Windows user
    is not using IE. It is abjectly *silly* to say people
    *shouldn't* go to links in email messages or open attachments (I
    do both *all the time*.)
    Floyd Davidson, Feb 12, 2006
  19. It's amusing you should say that. I just finished a Unix class which
    included a bootable CD of Knoppix, and one of my classmates used the CD
    for exactly that purpose.

    I never actually loaded the CD myself - I preferred the Linux installs
    I already had as virtual machines. Come to think of it, I only even
    booted one of them up twice during the class, just to test some syntax.
    Eric Schreiber, Feb 12, 2006
  20. Sounds like a good research project for you :)
    Eric Schreiber, Feb 12, 2006
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