VB or C#?? whats the difference

Discussion in 'MCAD' started by concern parent, Oct 10, 2004.

  1. Why does microsoft make it so diffult in having two totally different
    languages in one certification? Can someone with experience please explain to
    me and everyone else in here the major difference in between C# and VB.. In
    the long run is microsoft going to dump vb? and keep C#? or otherway
    around.. Is C the same as C#? And. last is C# more powerfull than perl..
    these questions all involve in web design aspects of MCAD.. Please your help
    can really light up things in here..

    Thank you
     
    concern parent, Oct 10, 2004
    #1
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  2. concern parent

    Frank Mamone Guest

    With .NET you can use any language that supports the .NET Framework.
    Microsoft has a Common Language Specification which allows language
    developers to make their language support .NET.

    Microsoft itself makes VB, C#, C++ and J# available to .NET. There are many
    other languages that support it and many more coming I'm sure.

    The language you choose doesn't really matter as theoretically they should
    all perform the same way as they are compiles to an Intermediate Language no
    matter what you use. Kind of like Java bytecode.

    In the context of the MCAD Certification, you will be tested in either VB or
    C# as it is a Microsoft certification after all. Also, you may as well learn
    something that is popular in the workplace. So to answer you question, VB is
    here to stay and if you are more comfortable with it, go for it!

    I cannot make comparisons to C or Perl as I haven't used those languages
    very much and I'm not even sure they have .NET versions. Maybe someone else
    can answer that.

    Hope this helps,

    Frank Mamone
     
    Frank Mamone, Oct 11, 2004
    #2
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  3. concern parent

    V. Guest

    In addition to the reply of Frank.

    Perl is a script language, more or less like VBScript or
    Javascript. It is in no way like C# or C. C and C# are
    different too. C is more like C++. (C++ was the
    successor of C). C and C++ are 'O-O' in theory, but in
    practice are not (or rarely). C# is 'O-O' also in
    practice. The idea of C# being the successor of C++ is a
    fairytale from microsoft. The closest resemblence of C#
    is with Java. Personally I think C# is a very powerful
    language. The only disadvantage is that it isn't
    multiplatform like Java.
    ..NET = languageindependent.
    J2EE = platformindependent.

    Hope this helps.

    V.
     
    V., Oct 11, 2004
    #3
  4. concern parent

    Hermit Dave Guest

    well Valko i have to disagree on one thing.
    not its does not make it any easier.. infact since you dont have blocks its
    actually harder. could be just me and not the language.

    --

    Regards,

    Hermit Dave
    (http://hdave.blogspot.com)
     
    Hermit Dave, Oct 11, 2004
    #4
  5. concern parent

    valko Guest

    Hi in addition to V.

    yes C# is multiplatform now search and try MONO project - it runs .NET over
    Linux ;-)
    http://www.mono-project.com/about/index.html

    Microsoft use internally only C# for say new Longhorn,

    in VB.NET you can do much faster new UI, there is some stuff like
    Parameterized properties which miss in C#
    (I read somewhere that C# programmers can not handle heavy brain burden to
    use it :)

    VB.NET have more good looking and human readable code :)

    C# is ECMA standard http://msdn.microsoft.com/net/ecma/
    http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm

    VB.NET is much easier to support (you had zillions of VB programmers)

    C# only real advantage is that you can access unmanaged code and OS parts
    directly and faster - therefore
    if you need to do some very heavy say scientific calculations application
    you can use it.

    Some political marketing b..ts - some CEO hear that C# is better and besides
    they do not know why they WANT C# ;-)

    my personal opinion is you are EXCELLENT developer or NOT and there is no
    any difference what language you use - the point is coding is easy part -
    doing good application design is much more important! I've seen to much 500
    horse power cars without wheels in my programming practice :))

    cheers
    Valko
     
    valko, Oct 11, 2004
    #5
  6. Hi Dave,

    I think you hit the nail on the head - to a Greek, the Greek language looks
    perfectly normal. To me, well, it's um - "Greek!"
     
    Cindy Winegarden, Oct 12, 2004
    #6
  7. concern parent

    Hermit Dave Guest

    hahahah.. had to read it twice... thought you mean Geek not Greek. lol

    there's another reason why i am more biased toward C#. VB.NET programmers
    tend to use generic functions which are sort of shipping for compatibility
    reasons rather than using the way rest of the world uses the framework
    (could be very few people).. as valko said... VB.NET is much easier to
    support (you had zillions of VB programmers).. which i guess in not far from
    the truth and the obvious truth.. obvious truth being extracts from

    Interviewer: Well, it's been a few years since you changed the world of
    software design, how does it feel, looking back?

    Stroustrup: Actually, I was thinking about those days, just before you
    arrived. Do you remember? Everyone was writing 'C' and, the trouble was,
    they were pretty damn good at it. Universities got pretty good at teaching
    it, too. They were turning out competent - I stress the word 'competent' -
    graduates at a phenomenal rate. That's what caused the problem.

    Interviewer: Problem?

    Stroustrup: Yes, problem. Remember when everyone wrote Cobol?

    Interviewer: Of course, I did too

    Stroustrup: Well, in the beginning, these guys were like demi-gods.
    Their salaries were high, and they were treated like royalty.

    Interviewer: Those were the days, eh?

    Stroustrup: Right. So what happened? IBM got sick of it, and invested
    millions in training programmers, till they were a dime a dozen.

    Interviewer: That's why I got out. Salaries dropped within a year, to the
    point where being a journalist actually paid better.

    Stroustrup: Exactly. Well, the same happened with 'C' programmers.

    more at http://homepages.tesco.net/~scotsnet/o.f.carter/fun/fun077.htm
    --

    Regards,

    Hermit Dave
    (http://hdave.blogspot.com)
     
    Hermit Dave, Oct 12, 2004
    #7
  8. Thank you all for your inputs. I am more than pleased to every comment.
    Thanks again.
     
    concern parent, Oct 13, 2004
    #8
  9. I think your argument is against some programmers and not the development
    tool they use. Modifying/refactoring code written by developers with bad
    habits can be a pain no matter what language they used.
     
    Cindy Winegarden, Oct 14, 2004
    #9
  10. concern parent

    Hermit Dave Guest

    yes my argument was indeed against some programmers. The only problem is
    that programmers normally learn and tend to use the only explicitly required
    features. I would say that a large chunk of coders use IDE's and if those
    IDE's encourage the behaviour... it can painful.

    modifying / refactoring written by anyone takes longer than it would for
    your own code.. reason is a difference in programming style. as you said it
    can be very painful.

    btw you didnt say anything about the obvious truth %>)
    --

    Regards,

    Hermit Dave
    (http://hdave.blogspot.com)
     
    Hermit Dave, Oct 14, 2004
    #10
  11. I have a doubt about VB. In VS .NET 2003, when I try to write a VB windows
    forms, and if I want to write an event handler for say Onclosing event of
    the form, the IDE does not seem to provide anything for this. I mean in C#
    for e.g. I can click on "Events" tab and look at all the events of the form
    or any component, how come I can't do this in VB?

    btw, C# is a copy of Delphi or pascal though syntactically it looks like
    Java, the base framework of .NET is a copy of VCL of Borland Delphi. Main
    reason because the creator of C# and .NET Anders Heilsberg was Delphi
    Architect, long ago!

    regards
    Baliga
     
    Baliga, Narasimha, Nov 3, 2004
    #11
  12. Hi Baliga,

    Open a code window and use the two combo boxes at the top to navigate to the
    events you want to code. I see the events lightning bolt in the VB IDE in VS
    2005 (Whidbey).
     
    Cindy Winegarden, Nov 3, 2004
    #12
  13. Thanks. Looks like this has been added in VS 2005. I have 2003 and I see a
    very few events and not all the events of a control!

    regards
    Baliga
     
    Baliga, Narasimha, Nov 8, 2004
    #13
  14. Why don't you just type it out? You don't need the IDE to do it for you.
     
    Charles Collins, Nov 9, 2004
    #14
  15. Hi Charles,

    I think the OP had doubts that VB was as strongly implemented as C#, this
    feature being one of the things that was different between the two.
     
    Cindy Winegarden, Nov 11, 2004
    #15
  16. concern parent, Dec 14, 2004
    #16
  17. concern parent

    UAError Guest

    Well, "fun" in >>fun/fun077.htm<< should have been the dead
    giveaway. As far as I can see it was never quoted as gospel
    but as the satire that it represents.

    Its the langauge/technology of the month disease of this
    industry - all industries have them but not at this
    acculturated rate.

    Back then it was:

    Why do we need C++ if we already have C?

    Now:
    Why do we need C# if there is Java?
    (For one, one is a language the other is a platform)

    Why do we need C# and VB.NET?
    (C# was in development for some time to retain the
    capabilities of (Visual) C++ for accessing the system level
    resources while attaining a better "ease of use" usually
    associated with VB; in the meantime it also borrowed heavily
    on the experiences made with the Java language. VB.NET for
    the most part is a marketing stunt to avoid alienation of
    the existing base of VB customers. A this point it is
    dubious whether its working - the same arguments that
    originally drew people to VB seem to be steering them to
    Java. The irony is that it may actually increase the
    percentage of Java programmers that really don't understand
    OO.

    "C++" is not a Binary Skill (and neither is "Java")
    http://www.idinews.com/cppBinary.html

    Pseudo-Classes and Quasi-Classes Confuse Object-Oriented
    Programming
    http://www.idinews.com/quasiClass.pdf

    Pseudo Object-Oriented Programming Considered Harmful
    http://www.idinews.com/westfall.pdf

    The Dark Side of Java
    http://www.idinews.com/darkside.pdf

    Again take everything you read with a grain of salt - but I
    for one can see where he is coming from - and theses
    articles are "old".)

    Why do we need C# and J#?
    (Yet another marketing stunt. J# was supposed to make
    the transition for programmers coming from the Java platform
    easier. In my opinion this was rather misguided as the true
    learning-curve isn't in the language, it's in the framework.
    J# makes no attempt to adapt the .NET Framework so that it
    can appear as the Java runtime - probably a wise choice
    because of the obvious performance implications. So really a
    wizard that "roughly translates" Java to C# (not necessarily
    functional, mind you) for further editing would have been of
    more use - aren't you supposed to use automated unit tests
    anyway?)

    So we really don't need the multiple language support of
    ..NET - so we stick can stick with something like the JVM?
    (I did't say that. IMO this C#,J#, VB.NET arrangement is
    redundant. They are all imperative languages - they pretty
    much serve the same purpose. However, true multi-langauge
    support - that is of imperative, functional and logical
    languages - that is a laudable goal. Which is why I noted
    the F# research with some interest

    http://research.microsoft.com/projects/ilx/fsharp.aspx
    See also:
    http://www.gotdotnet.com/team/lang/
    http://www.gotdotnet.com/community/resources/default.aspx?ResourceTypeDropDownList=Language vendors

    (So far I'm not aware of a Prolog-style language to IL
    compiler; P# is a cross-compiler to C#)

    Finally one could actually develop solutions to large
    problem domains with the tools (languages) that suit
    different aspects of the problem without either writing tons
    of glue code to let the different (language) components talk
    to each other or by forcing sub-optimal solutions in one
    general purpose language.
    (Golden Hammer AntiPattern:
    http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?GoldenHammer)

    Only time will tell is the .NET CLR is up to the challenge.

    IMO Sun is dropping the ball by not advancing the JVM
    towards a true multi-language runtime. They are counting on
    the "Volks BASIC" attitude, the quest for the
    "one-size-fits-all" (pandering to mediocrity) implementation
    language for the masses.

    I have worked with VB in the past and may even work with it
    (VB.NET) in the future; my preferences are simply elsewhere.

    I'm simply trying to be a language agnostic
    http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?LanguageAgnostic
    but as such am easily provoked when someone suggests that
    "one language is enough".
     
    UAError, Dec 15, 2004
    #17
  18. concern parent

    JimDaGeek Guest

    I have to disagree. All of the programmers I know _hate_ VB or any
    incarnation of it. We all hope that VB/VB.Net will just go away, along with
    the people that are VB-ONLY. Geez, they are some of the worst "programmers"
    I have seen over the last 15 years.

    Please do not encourage people to use VB. Please. I would almost rather
    hear of someone saying they are a "COBOL.Net" programmer.

    No, I am not trying to start a VB.Net vs. C# language war. However, 80%+ of
    the VB "programmers" I have met over the last 15 years have just sucked as
    "programmers".

    And _every_ VB "guy" I have met thought they were part of the 10%-20% that
    actually know how to program.

    Spending a few years doing VB and some ADO crap doesn't make one a programmer.

    Dear MS, please, please, KILL VB and all versions of it. :)
     
    JimDaGeek, Dec 6, 2007
    #18
  19. concern parent

    JimDaGeek Guest

    Geez, how much mis-information can you spread?

    Perl is not like C? Huh? The Perl syntax is derived from C. Perl is
    nothing like VBscript. At all. VBScript sucks and has very little features.
    Perl blows it away.

    Can you open a socket in plain VBScript? No.
    Huh? C is procedural. C++ is OO. Are you on crack? Have you written one
    real app in C++? C++ is certainly OO.
    I agree with you on that. While C# the language is a standard and can be
    implemented on multi-platforms, it is the framework that matters. The MS
    ..Net framework is not currently cross-platform. MS does not make multiple
    implementations of the .Net platform to work on anything other than MS-ONLY.
    This is pretty simplistic. .Net is language independent. However, J2EE is
    as well. You can target any language you want to compile to Java compliant
    byte code.

    J2EE has nothing to do with being "platform independent". Please, go read
    some books before you post more.
     
    JimDaGeek, Dec 6, 2007
    #19
  20. tesr

    --


    I have to disagree. All of the programmers I know _hate_ VB or any
    incarnation of it. We all hope that VB/VB.Net will just go away, along with
    the people that are VB-ONLY. Geez, they are some of the worst "programmers"
    I have seen over the last 15 years.

    Please do not encourage people to use VB. Please. I would almost rather
    hear of someone saying they are a "COBOL.Net" programmer.

    No, I am not trying to start a VB.Net vs. C# language war. However, 80%+ of
    the VB "programmers" I have met over the last 15 years have just sucked as
    "programmers".

    And _every_ VB "guy" I have met thought they were part of the 10%-20% that
    actually know how to program.

    Spending a few years doing VB and some ADO crap doesn't make one a programmer.

    Dear MS, please, please, KILL VB and all versions of it. :)
     
    [email protected], Dec 10, 2007
    #20
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