US Gov looking for input about IE ONLY pre-patient web site...

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by Imhotep, Aug 14, 2005.

  1. Imhotep

    Management Guest

    <SNIP>

    H1K,

    I bank with Barclays, no problem with Firefox v1.0.6, ditto
    Barclaycard - maybe your friend is not allowing cookies from
    Barclays. I can also vouch for Citibank & Wells Fargo in the US.


    Charlie.
     
    Management, Aug 14, 2005
    #21
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  2. Imhotep

    Steve Welsh Guest

    Hmmm, not convinced about who has the fixation, Jim ;)

    Also, I notice that you don't care to mention trends, i.e. that before
    Firefox arrived on the scene M$ Internet Exploder was running somewhere
    about 94%.

    Don't _your_ (they aren't the only ones) statistics tell you something
    from that?

    Anyway, it's all bollox, cos everybody in the world knows that 93.692%
    of statistics are made up :-D

    Steve
     
    Steve Welsh, Aug 14, 2005
    #22
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  3. Imhotep

    Jim Watt Guest

    Clearly you mistake me for someone who cares what you think.
    OK lets look at last years figures:

    Browser % of Total Visitors
    ---------------------------------------------------
    1 Internet Explorer 6.x 69.48%
    2 Internet Explorer 5.x 15.15%
    3 Netscape 6.x 3.84%
    4 Netscape 4.x 2.50%
    5 Netscape 3.x 1.14%
    6 Netscape 2.x 1.12%
    7 Netscape 7.x 0.76%
    8 Netscape 5.x 0.76%
    9 google 0.63%
    10 Opera 0.52%
    11 Internet Explorer 4 0.37%
    Yes, people using IE5 have moved to IE6 people who used
    netscape have migrated to Firefox.
    Ah but mine represent the other 6.308%
     
    Jim Watt, Aug 15, 2005
    #23
  4. <snip content>

    OK. I'll rephrase.. can someone please supply a cite for something that
    wasn't fixed more than a year ago? ;o)

    H1K
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Aug 15, 2005
    #24
  5. As I (think) I said, it all comes down to SSL. Older browsers just don't
    have 128-bit, but it was always available as an upgrade option to IE. The
    FirstDirect eBanking trial in 1996 that I participated in also proved that -
    unlike what they told the public - the MS JVM *could* be upgraded in-place.

    Sure, there are probably ways to code around most, if not all, of these
    problems. But your average bank doesn't want to spend the time and money
    unless it sees a financial result.

    The usual way is to code so that everything /should/ work, but only
    *officially* support a particular set of browsers and/or platforms. It's a
    liability and testing thing.

    H1K
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Aug 15, 2005
    #25
  6. Imhotep

    Jim Watt Guest

    Older versions of IE were crippled by US export regulations which
    sought to limit encryption to 40bits for 'the rest fo the world'
    That seems to have gone out the window, which probably
    means the NSA are now happy to decrypt it.

    had one fervent believer who said I could not possibly
    be using PGP as it was embargoed.

    Most of the differences between rendering are minor and
    many can be overcome by careful coding. Some pages
    check to see which browser you are using and change
    their behaviour accordingly - this must increase the cost
    of development and maintenance.

    My frontpage on www.gibnews.net looks different between
    IE and Firefox, must get round to fixing that ...
     
    Jim Watt, Aug 15, 2005
    #26
  7. IE total of about 85%.
    Your previous number, which are the current figures (just to confuse
    things)
    Browser % of Total Visitors
    ---------------------------------------------------------------
    1 Internet Explorer 6.x 75.46%
    2 Netscape 6.x 8.49%
    3 Internet Explorer 5. 4.78%
    4 Netscape 4.x 3.01%
    5 Others 2.00%

    That gives an IE total of 80%. By your numbers IE has gone from 85% to
    80%. That seems rather significant to me.
    That and that IE has lost market share.

    93.691% actually.
    --
    Matt Silberstein

    Well ya see, Norm, it's like this. A herd of buffalo can only move as fast as the slowest buffalo. And when the herd is hunted, it is the slowest and weakest ones at the back that are killed first. This natural selection is good for the herd as a whole, because the general speed and health of the whole group keeps improving by the regular killing of the weakest members. In much the same way, the human brain can only operate as fast as the slowest brain cells. Excessive intake of alcohol, as we know, kills brain cells. But naturally, it attacks the slowest and weakest brain cells first. In this way, regular consumption of beer eliminates the weaker brain cells, making the brain a faster and more efficient machine. That's why you always feel smarter after a few beers.

    Cliff on Cheers
     
    Matt Silberstein, Aug 15, 2005
    #27
  8. Imhotep

    Jim Watt Guest

    True, but it still has 10x the share of its nearest competitor
    and is the dominant browser.

    lets look again next year.
     
    Jim Watt, Aug 15, 2005
    #28
  9. Imhotep

    Kevin Reiter Guest

    Hairy One Kenobi wrote:

    Commerce Bank (in the US) has supported Firefox for over a year and a half
    now, since I've had an account with them. Don't know when they were
    "kludged to allow it", though, if that's who you were referring to..

    Natwest supports ".. a wide range of browsers."

    "We have tested the pages of the site with the following browsers:

    * Microsoft Internet Explorer Version 4.0, 5.0, 5.5 and 6.0 for PCs and
    4.5, 5.0 for Macintosh computers
    * Netscape Navigator Version 4.7x and 6.1 for PCs and Macintosh computers

    They also state the following:

    "We are committed to making our site more accessible and support the Web
    Accessibility Initiative (WAI). Our product directory has been designed to
    meet the WAI recommendations."

    http://www.natwest.com/accessibility/index.asp?navid=ACCESSIBILITY

    I think it's a step in the right direction for more banks to realize that
    people aren't only using IE, and code their pages appropriately. Not only
    banks, but other businesses as well.

    ... just my .02 ..

    -k
     
    Kevin Reiter, Aug 16, 2005
    #29
  10. No, Commerzbank, as in "Commerzbank". I dunno, these Germans and their funny
    spelling... anyone would think that they didn't speak Amercian, of sumpfin
    ;o)

    (If you check back, youd see that *I* was the first to mention Commerce Bank
    & Trust in the US)
    Yup. That's the Natwest web site. But /not/ the Natwest eBanking web site...
    that's a link on the same page, and no longer seems to state a specific
    policy. Instead, they give you a link to see if it'll work.

    Firefox took a minor geological age to load the page, but came back with
    "OK". Which has to be a good thing... (even if the menu on the left doesn't
    display properly. It's that pixel size thing again)

    'Course, doesn't mean that you'd get telephone support on Firefox - that'll
    be with the T&Cs.
    Ditto and, after all, a legal requirement over here.

    H1K
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Aug 16, 2005
    #30
  11. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    ...and Hyundai out sell Ferrari in total unit sales every year. It does not
    make a Ferrari a better car... and again, this post is about MS/US
    Entertain industry forcing their way upon the US gov to intentionally push
    linux and open source out. I will sue should this happen.
     
    Imhotep, Aug 16, 2005
    #31
  12. True, but not as powerful as one might think. GM used to say the same
    thing about Honda and Toyota, now those two companies make the most
    reliable cars in the world, at good prices, and have taken over almost
    every segment of the market.

    --
    Matt Silberstein


    And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
    It never felt so good, it never felt so right
    And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
    C'mon! Hold on tight!
    C'mon! Hold on tight!

    Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
    I can see paradise by the dashboard light
    Paradise by the dashboard light

    Jim Steinman
     
    Matt Silberstein, Aug 16, 2005
    #32
  13. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    The point being is that quantity does NOT indictate quality...

    Honestly, I am just tried of that whole argument of "marketshare" when it
    comes to Windose. I am criticizing Microsnaught for it's bad (and illegal)
    business pratices. I am criticizing them for starting this bullshit IP laws
    (which if they had there way, they would patent the decimal system and make
    you pay them whenever you count something). I criticize them for forgetting
    about there clients. I criticize them for forgeting about what a free
    market is all about: Make the best product for the cheapest price...

    Again, what does that have to do with marketshare? All the markshare
    argument proves to me is that there are a lot of idiots out there...

    Imhotep
     
    Imhotep, Aug 16, 2005
    #33
  14. My point is not that quantity equal quality, but that quantity can
    lead to domination. I recommend fear rather than dismissal.


    --
    Matt Silberstein


    And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
    It never felt so good, it never felt so right
    And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
    C'mon! Hold on tight!
    C'mon! Hold on tight!

    Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
    I can see paradise by the dashboard light
    Paradise by the dashboard light

    Jim Steinman
     
    Matt Silberstein, Aug 16, 2005
    #34
  15. Imhotep

    Jim Watt Guest

    Uh? Irrelevent inaccurate diversion.
    I thought it was about your prejudice against Microsoft.

    However the point of looking at browser statistics is to ensure
    that people using a facility get the best service and whilst a
    negligible number use Opera its not worth researching its quirks.

    Similarly I would not consider producing software for the Mac as
    there are no potential clients.
     
    Jim Watt, Aug 17, 2005
    #35
  16. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    Not at all. But, constantly, using your browser stats is....
    Whatever. You are so blinded that you can not even see your nose. Trying to
    educate you is just a waste of time.
    Let me tell you something. I do quite a lot of web designing. There is no
    excuse for not supporting all current browsers....Even worse, no gov on
    this planet should ever restrict access to gov information because certain
    lobbyist groups have money to bribe legislators to create bullshit laws. I
    do not care if they were pushing a linux only web site. The point is that
    access should never be restricted. Never.
    Not true. Mac software has doubled pretty much every year. It is also a far
    superior operating system than Windose is. Again Jim, you are being blinded
    into believing the MS is the only way to go.


    Microsoft is a Cancer.

    Im
     
    Imhotep, Aug 17, 2005
    #36
  17. On Wed, 17 Aug 2005 09:29:59 +0200, in alt.computer.security , Jim
    Watt <_way> in

    [snip]
    Now that is kind of silly. There are millions of potential clients. It
    all depends on how many different products are already competing for
    that niche. It could easily be that there is more potential for a
    product for the Mac than for the PC.

    Or is your point that they are too secure to need additional security
    products?


    --
    Matt Silberstein


    And now our bodies are oh so close and tight
    It never felt so good, it never felt so right
    And we're glowing like the metal on the edge of a knife
    C'mon! Hold on tight!
    C'mon! Hold on tight!

    Though it's cold and lonley in the deep dark night
    I can see paradise by the dashboard light
    Paradise by the dashboard light

    Jim Steinman
     
    Matt Silberstein, Aug 17, 2005
    #37
  18. Imhotep

    Casper Guest

    Smiling Wickedly, Jim Watt answered:
    Unfortunately your stats are flawed, as it is now OFFICIAL that Firefox
    has close to 20% NOT what you listed. Still NOT what IE has , but IE is
    done for.
     
    Casper, Aug 17, 2005
    #38
  19. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    ....nice comeback...
     
    Imhotep, Aug 17, 2005
    #39
  20. Imhotep

    Imhotep Guest

    ...that is what I have heard as well...
     
    Imhotep, Aug 17, 2005
    #40
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