UPS that is UN-interrupt-able;!..

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by tony sayer, Jan 27, 2011.

  1. tony sayer

    tony sayer Guest

    We've got a customer who has a need for a UPS .. that is just that;!..

    They have some gear that isn't at all power hungry but are OK re
    spending on something that might have a bit of extra capacity when the
    power does go off. OK now UPS'es aren't standby power as such but the
    couple of APC units they've had haven't been that wonderful in operation
    and eat batteries, seemingly to overcharge them.

    To that end anyone got any recommendations of a manufacturer or unit
    preferably rack mount, thats around 2 to 3 KVA capacity?.

    Thanks in advance..
     
    tony sayer, Jan 27, 2011
    #1
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  2. Depends how long it's got to supply power for, and how critical it is
    that it stays permanently powered. For long enough to shut a computer
    down gracefully, a relatively small battery in a UPS will do it, with
    regular testing. For longer periods, a UPS which will last long enough
    for a standby generator to cut in is what's wanted. Also, how important
    is clean power? A lot of standby sources generate a very dirty sine wave
    output.

    If it's got a motor in it,then surge rating is important.
     
    John Williamson, Jan 27, 2011
    #2
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  3. tony sayer

    Roland Perry Guest

    The batteries have a very limited life in any event - something like a 3
    year half-life, approx.
    I've been very happy with APC floor-mounted units, and Compaq
    rack-mounted ones. There's one of the latter with claimed new batteries,
    on eBay for £268 (inc carriage) at the moment.
     
    Roland Perry, Jan 27, 2011
    #3
  4. tony sayer

    Paul Bird Guest

    http://www.speedie.co.uk/acatalog/Apple_Equipment.html

    Cheapest I've ever seen.

    PB
     
    Paul Bird, Jan 27, 2011
    #4
  5. tony sayer

    Roland Perry Guest

    What's their price for the "3000" unit the OP was looking for?

    (Curiously, the 1000's seem to be 120v output, and all of them are
    refurbished, although there's no harm in that).
     
    Roland Perry, Jan 27, 2011
    #5
  6. tony sayer

    John Guest

    Have a look at flywheel UPS systems and forget battery life problems.
    Not sure if they come in rack mounted sizes or if they will suit your
    needs.
    Google gives a number of hits on the subject.

    John
     
    John, Jan 27, 2011
    #6
  7. tony sayer

    Andy Dingley Guest

    I've never used an APC that _hasn't_ done this. On a good day you
    lose some carpet tiles, on a bad day it's a rack with £20k of acid-
    etched kit in it.
     
    Andy Dingley, Jan 27, 2011
    #7
  8. tony sayer

    Duncan Wood Guest

    I've never seen one smaller than about 50KVA, at that point a large chunk
    of your service cost is just the bloke coming to look at it, all the
    electronics are very similar a normal one. The obvious killer of small UPS
    batteries is heat, the last place they normally want to be is in the rack.
     
    Duncan Wood, Jan 27, 2011
    #8
  9. tony sayer

    Tim Watts Guest

    Andy Dingley () wibbled on Thursday 27 January 2011
    14:30:
    Weird, because in a job <mumble years back> we never had any problems with
    acid spillage - about 10-15 APC UPSes (2U rackmount, some with the second
    battery unit, some with "hacked in random lead acid external batteries".

    Various devices in the 2-5kVA range.

    Sure - we had a very few that lied about the state of their battery -
    mostly at the 4+ years mark - eg would claim all was well but would last
    about 2 minutes if mains failed.

    That was dealt with by taking them out of service periodically and using a
    proper battery tester on every battery - then replace. If the batteries
    seemed serviceable at that age, we tended to use them for less critical kit,

    But overall, my personal experience has been quite favourable.
     
    Tim Watts, Jan 27, 2011
    #9
  10. tony sayer

    Tim Watts Guest

    Duncan Wood () wibbled on Thursday 27 January 2011
    14:33:
    Possibly why I haven't had these problems - all of mine were in the bottom
    of racks with ambient air at 18-20C.
     
    Tim Watts, Jan 27, 2011
    #10
  11. I've used MGE UPSs in the past and liked them a lot. I used the double
    conversion units too (not sure if all their range is like that).

    But I think they've just been bought-out by ... APC )-:

    Gordon
     
    Gordon Henderson, Jan 27, 2011
    #11
  12. tony sayer

    Skipweasel Guest

    Might be a good idea to bury the actual whirly-round-and-round bit in a
    pit - just in case.
     
    Skipweasel, Jan 27, 2011
    #12

  13. I'm with John on this one. You did not mention how long the UPS will be
    expected to provide power during an outage, and it sounds as if what is
    really called for is a back-up generator.
     
    Jeff Strickland, Jan 27, 2011
    #13
  14. I once heard they have a roundabout-sized flywheel at Rutherford
    Appleton whose energy is dumped onto some unsuspecting and tiny particles
    from time to time. Is this true ?

    Jon
     
    Jonathan Schneider, Jan 27, 2011
    #14
  15. tony sayer

    Tim Watts Guest

    Jonathan Schneider () wibbled on Thursday 27
    January 2011 17:15:
    Half my work colleagues go to RAL on a regular basis - I'll ask...
     
    Tim Watts, Jan 27, 2011
    #15
  16. It's slightly more complicated. APC was acquired by Schneider Electric
    which merged it with MGE under the condition that the sub-10KVA MGE UPS
    business was sold on and this ended up with Eaton Powerware. Some
    competition in this area is clearly overdue. I can't believe we are
    still expected to pay £200 for a web/snmp management module, when we are
    practically at the stage where toasters come with ethernet ports.
    Ethernet should be standard on a UPS of any size.
     
    Espen H. Koht, Jan 27, 2011
    #16
  17. tony sayer

    John Penton Guest

    Not sure about RAL, but also in Oxon:
    http://www.jet.efda.org/focus-on/jets-flywheels/
     
    John Penton, Jan 27, 2011
    #17
  18. tony sayer

    Skipweasel Guest

    "To our surprise, the intervals of TV advertising spots that are
    broadcast in the middle of highly popular programmes (e.g. Coronation
    Street, football finals etc.) are common causes of delays in JET?s
    evening operations. Presumably adverts cause millions of viewers to
    switch on their kettles all at the same time!"

    I'm surprised they're surprised - I thought it was common knowledge that
    demand peaks during advert breaks in popular broadcasts.
     
    Skipweasel, Jan 27, 2011
    #18
  19. tony sayer

    Roland Perry Guest

    In message <>, at
    Slightly different technology, but perhaps your car battery was down to
    10% capacity by the time you noticed it needed replacing.

    But you have a point, and laptop batteries also last only about two
    years if charged daily.

    Perhaps the car battery boils off the excess charge fairly harmlessly,
    whereas the others get a more serious chemical change.
     
    Roland Perry, Jan 27, 2011
    #19
  20. tony sayer

    Duncan Wood Guest

    Not running them till they go flat is a really good idea :), spike loads
    aren't a big effect.
     
    Duncan Wood, Jan 27, 2011
    #20
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