Update on my SMART problem.

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by R. Giggs., Oct 27, 2012.

  1. R. Giggs.

    R. Giggs. Guest

    I am having problems posting so trying to keep it brief.

    I have now managed to reboot without the SMART problem,
    it reboots as normal with no mention of SMART problems.
    However when I check the drive with varius tests it still reports it as
    not suporting SMART and has no SMART stats availlable.
     
    R. Giggs., Oct 27, 2012
    #1
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  2. R. Giggs.

    Paul Guest

    I'd have to go read the ATA spec, to see if there is a way
    to disable SMART. It really shouldn't get turned off.
    (If you don't like it, you just ignore it :) )

    SMART reports passively collected statistics (like how
    many sectors have required reallocation). But there are
    also some internal tests it can run. It's possible
    things like Seatools or the WD Diagnostics trigger these.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.M.A.R.T

    "Self-tests

    SMART drives may offer a number of self-tests:

    Short

    Checks the electrical and mechanical performance as well
    as the read performance of the disk.

    Long

    A longer and more thorough version of the short self-test,
    scans the entire disk surface"

    HTH,
    Paul
     
    Paul, Oct 27, 2012
    #2
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  3. R. Giggs.

    R. Giggs. Guest

    I seem to remember I could run a smart test from the bios on the good drive,
    i ran the short test but there was an option to run a longer one, however
    I could not run them on the bad drive, there was no option to because
    ut said smart was not supported (or similar message).
    That was before I cured the boot problem so it might have changed, however
    I can't run the test from any of the disk utilities from windows so I very
    much doubt
    I will be able to do a bios one.


    Something here about the drives and thier problems:-

    http://datacent.com/datarecovery/hdd/samsung/SP2514N


    "One of the most common problems Samsung SpinPoint hard drives experience is
    burnt cuircuit board(PCB). Samsung drives are very vulnerable to power
    overheating and power surges. Often bad power supply unit combined with
    power streak is enough to burn spindle driver chip on the electronics and
    make data inaccessible. Should this occur the computer would reboot itself
    or shutdown completely, you would normally notice acrid smell and smoke and
    the drive will no longer spin up"

    and

    "Samsung hard drives could also suffer from firmware problems. If part of
    firmware becomes corrupted the drive fails to initialize correctly and stops
    working as expected. The drive usually sounds normal but does not identify
    in BIOS or shows up with zero capacity. If you attempt to boot up from such
    drive or read any data from it you would get "Primary Master Hard Disk
    Fail", "No operating system found" or "Disk boot failure" or some other
    SMART error on boot up. "
     
    R. Giggs., Oct 28, 2012
    #3
  4. R. Giggs.

    Paul Guest

    Yes, at one time, there were a few data recovery web pages that
    were worth reading.

    Now, they put that content on the web pages, for SEO purposes.
    (So their data recovery company page will appear in search results,
    not as a means to help you.)

    It's true, there was a WD or Seagate drive at one time, that had a
    spindle motor controller IC that would burn up. A later model of
    the IC in question, would stop that (it ran cooler).

    The drive has a couple transient protection devices on the +5V and
    +12V rails. They're intended to stop inductive transients when
    drives are hot inserted in servers. If a desktop computer ATX supply
    has a sustained overvoltage problem on either of those rails,
    the transient protection device burns. This would happen on any
    brand of drive. So we could write up a web page full of mournful
    warnings, for something that is an inevitable part of the design.
    (If you don't have transient protection, the drive could be
    fried for other reasons.)

    Your evidence seems to suggest the SMART subsystem has shut
    down on the drive. But I don't see a mechanism for it. The
    controller board on the drive, has its own processor and
    firmware. SMART is just a routine to run, for that firmware.
    The controller is still reading the disk, so the hardware
    part of it would seem to be working. The only question would
    be, what would cause the SMART routines to stop running.

    http://smartlinux.sourceforge.net/smart/faq.php

    "How to disable S.M.A.R.T. ?

    S.M.A.R.T. monitoring can only be disabled from the system BIOS
    (Basic Input/Output System).

    S.M.A.R.T. remains enabled on the drive.
    "

    And that's my understanding as well, that if the drive
    supported SMART in the first place, it will always
    be running. The drive is always gathering statistics.

    *******

    OK, I checked my copy of the Hitachi Feature Tool manual,
    and there is a setting to enable or disable SMART. Why
    this would have changed on your drive, is a mystery. If you
    use the Hitachi (formerly IBM) tool, there is no guarantee
    it will work. It's not guaranteed to work with all brands
    (but the ATA spec is a standard). But the tool is worth a try.
    See page 18. The text here suggests some drive brands, the
    setting (disable) will not survive from session to session.
    The manual is about 5.9MB.

    http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/downloads/FTool_User_Guide_215.pdf

    Samsung has a tool as well. There are download links, next to
    a list of commands the tool runs. The search term that got
    me here was "ESTOOL", but HUTIL is mentioned as well.

    http://www.samsung.com/sec/consumer/learningresources/hdd/utility.html

    Generally, a lot of disk tools like that, they're designed to
    run from a DOS floppy. Sometimes, the package will include
    a copy of FreeDOS. Seagate does that with their Seatools for DOS
    for example. The only problem you might run into (at least
    in Seagate's case), is they don't always have driver support
    for just every disk storage interface under the sun. My last
    two computers, Seatools can't "see" disks on my computer.
    Only the older computers worked with it. From that perspective
    (driver support), there is no guarantee that kind of tool will
    be able to see the disk. But you can still try it if you want.

    Paul
     
    Paul, Oct 28, 2012
    #4
  5. R. Giggs.

    R. Giggs. Guest

    the drives and thier problems:-
    Well first things first, I tried to boot up today and go straight into
    the BIOS to look at the SMART suff for the drive however it just hung and
    I could not get in at all. Indeed I could not boot up basically whether I
    selected
    the boot menus the bios or left it to boot normallynothing worked.
    I did get the SMART screen once but I have never got past that before.

    So I don't realy seem to be getting anywhere.
    One thing I do notice when I remove the bad drive is that at boot I can hear
    the drive spinngnig up, so that never happens with the bad drive on
    (usuallly).

    So I am unsure how to explain what is happening, maybe the drive draws too
    much
    power?

    Anyhow I can't really do anything unless I can boot with the drive
    connected..

    It seems hit and miss whether I can boot up with th bad drive on,
    unpredictable
    behaviour, so that is either mechanical or electricl problems.

    I may have a go at booting with just the bad drive on, it shold have more
    power
    that way,, mind you that might kill it for good and posibly the whole
    computer - lol
     
    R. Giggs., Oct 28, 2012
    #5
  6. R. Giggs.

    R. Giggs. Guest

     
    R. Giggs., Oct 30, 2012
    #6
  7. R. Giggs.

    R. Giggs. Guest

    "
    Well just an update, I have not been able to boot up witht he bad drive on
    at all
    really, it had been a bit random if I could boot up with it connected but
    recently I
    can't see to boot with it conencted at all.
    Anyhow I was down the computer store (PC world) and noticed they had some
    reasonable priced IDE enclosures which was a surprise, however they were
    'pre-owned'
    anyhow I got one and connect the bad drive and it worked perfectly fine.

    So it makes it annoying that it does not work in my PC, however at least I
    have
    easy access to the data on it, whcih seems to be all there and in good
    order.

    I think theere may be a BIOS update fot the computer which might possible
    help
    but I think that requires a floppy drive which I don't have. Also I don't
    think I would attempt that
    untill I have another PC incasse it does not work and leaves the PC
    unbootable.
     
    R. Giggs., Oct 30, 2012
    #7
  8. R. Giggs.

    R. Giggs. Guest

    Well just an update, I have not been able to boot up witht he bad drive on
    http://www.tech-forums.net/forums/f84/hp-pavilion-zt3000-help-bios-s-m-r-t-hdd-error-191285/

    Above thread about similar SMART bios problems.
    The guy put in a new drive and got the same smart error!
     
    R. Giggs., Oct 31, 2012
    #8
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