Up to 38Mb and up to 76 Mb

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by David, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. David

    David Guest

    The annual consideration of ISP as arrived.
    A year ago ISPs were offer me 2 FTTC services at up to 38Mb and up to 76
    Mb. My present searches are only locating services of up to 38Mb, is
    this something others have noted?

    I'm on up to 38Mb with estimates of 30Mb and wondering why now my line
    will not support faster.
    Plusnet quoted me both services but both estimated 30 Mb.
    David, Feb 23, 2015
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  2. David

    Mark Carver Guest

    That's right, because your line will only sync at around 30 Mb/s.

    ISPs offer two versions of FTTC, one that is capped at 38 Mb/s, and the
    other that is capped at 76 Mb/s. However the 76 Mb/s version is only any
    good for folk who live nearer to the cabinet, and can therefore attain a
    speed of 39 Mb/s or higher.
    Mark Carver, Feb 23, 2015
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  3. Usually you have to have 76Mb/s down in order to get 19Mb/s up (rather
    than 9.5Mb/s up).

    But maybe a line that can't go over 38Mb/s down isn't going to be
    capable of going faster than 9.5Mb/s up either?
    Brian Gregory, Feb 24, 2015
  4. David

    Mark Carver Guest

    Probably not in most cases. I was on a 76/20 connection.
    Actual speeds for me are 33 down, and 6.5 up. I recently
    downgraded to a 38/10 connection, which of course made absolutely
    no difference to my speeds, but has saved me 7 quid/mth
    Mark Carver, Feb 24, 2015
  5. David

    David Guest

    That's how I would have ended up if I had proceeded with my purchase of
    Plusnet and BT "faster" services by paying more for same speed.
    Seems a bit dishonest to me but of course as always when buying anything
    buyer beware.
    Present ISP Sky declined to offer me faster.

    Do we know what the BT Network are doing about the problem of limit of
    38Mb on lines?
    Is it an area thing from a particular cabinet or just some lines from it
    being in poor condition?
    EG I can't but my neighbour next door might to able to because his
    copper is better.
    David, Feb 24, 2015
  6. The agents who sell the services probably just don't understand. I was
    offered the 76Mb/s service even though the BT availability check
    website indicated that the line wasn't capable of giving me more than
    about 30, so it would be more sensible for me to opt for the 38Mb/s
    service. I actually get about 26 down, 5.5 up, with which I am quite
    happy, but if I hadn't reasoned the figures out for myself I'd
    probably have ended up with a performance that was no better on a more
    expensive service. As you say, buyer beware.

    Roderick Stewart, Feb 24, 2015
  7. David

    Martin Brown Guest

    What they understand is that their bonus is bigger if they sign you up
    to the fastest service irrespective of whether the line will take it!
    The BT availability service sometimes underestimates what the line is
    capable of - mine says upto 2Mbps but I sync at 5320 Mbps and the BRAS
    is now back up to 4500. Anything stable above 3500 will stream HD video.

    There should perhaps be a heuristic anecdotal guide as to what sync
    speed you need to get on the 38M service to stand a sporting chance of
    getting a noticeably faster connection on the 76M one. Can anyone
    provide data points for sync rates @ 38 and 76 on the same line?

    This is all fine for geeks, but it perhaps should be publicised on one
    of the consumer affairs programmes. It is sharp practice to sell a
    headline "faster" speed service that is no better than the 38M one.
    Martin Brown, Feb 24, 2015
  8. David

    Brian Mc Guest

    : Do ISPs tend to let you change from one speed package to another based on
    : the actual speed that your router achieves, which usually isn't known until
    : FTTC/VDSL has actually been turned on and the router has been installed in
    : the place in the house where you want it.

    For VDSL the Openreach speed predictor isn't bad - as it "knows" the cable
    length to the FTTC cabinet quite accurately.
    Brian Mc, Feb 24, 2015
  9. David

    David Guest

    I find that reply very interesting as I've just finished talking to the
    OR engineer on that subject.

    He told me the OR speed predictor works on postcode to the cabinet and
    thus is a straight line and not actual cable length. This results in
    the higher Estimate of 30Mb than my actual 27Mb. He did have an App to
    measure from my home to the cabinet showing the cable route with its
    connections on the way. It goes a very varied way too, starting by going
    in completely wrong direction and has a length just short of 1Km.

    I was also told this distance was the reason why I would not gain any
    more speed by upgrading to up to 76MB service, surprising to me he said
    in his experience it could well be less speed, I got lost on that.

    His visit was to reset my line and now I'm getting 37Mb with 6dB noise
    Margin, so a few days will tell what the OR DLM thinks of my use and
    interference on the line and adjustment it makes.

    David, Feb 24, 2015
  10. David

    Brian Mc Guest

    : I find that reply very interesting as I've just finished talking to the
    : OR engineer on that subject.

    : He told me the OR speed predictor works on postcode to the cabinet and
    : thus is a straight line and not actual cable length.

    I suppose that you (or rather he!) COULD be correct!

    With ADSL it was always emphasised that the straight line distance to the
    exchange was meaningless as the cables took less direct routes. Openreach
    took this into account - and I presumed they would now do the same for
    "distance to cabinet!
    Brian Mc, Feb 24, 2015
  11. David

    Flop Guest

    But he doesn't know what type of cable it is.
    Flop, Feb 24, 2015
  12. David

    Roger Mills Guest

    Well, I'm on PlusNet's Unlimited Fibre[1] which is technically capped at
    38M but I'm getting 50M down and 15M up. Go figure!

    [1] As opposed to Unlimited Fibre Plus - which is up to 76M
    Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
    Roger Mills, Feb 24, 2015
  13. But presumably it is calibrated against the straight line distances
    of test premises, rather than a wire of that length, so that is is
    right for an "averagely wiggly" route.

    Otherwise it would be (a) stupid or (b) deliberate misrepresentation.

    Your route is presumably more then averagely wiggly.

    -- Richard
    Richard Tobin, Feb 24, 2015
  14. I believe we provision both services on 80/20 and then throttle the
    throughput back at our side. Sounds like you're lucky enough for
    something not to be working as it should ;)
    Plusnet Support Team, Feb 25, 2015
  15. David

    Mark Guest

    That would explain why my sync speed was higher than 40Mbps for a
    short time yesterday, despite being on a 40Mbps product.
    Mark, Feb 25, 2015
  16. David

    David Guest

    Bob What does the future hold for those of us, like myself who can have
    up to 38 and up to 76 but only only 30Mb in both cases due to a line
    length from cabinet of 1Km.

    I'm not out in a rural area but in a completely built up city suburb
    area, will more and nearer cabinets to be provided to cut length from
    cabinets to a distance the benefits of high speed broadband can be
    obtain for those who would like to choose.

    Virgin look to have a cabinet in every street but not BT.

    David, Feb 25, 2015
  17. David

    Mark Carver Guest

    I'm in the same position as you, but what are you restricted from doing
    by being capped to 30 Mb/s ?
    There's your answer, RF coax, rather than 19th Century, never designed
    to carry *DSL, twisted pair between cabinet and home.
    Mark Carver, Feb 25, 2015
  18. Or just a better twisted pair or pairs.

    Coax Ethernet stops at 10Mb/s AFAIK but UTP (cat5/6 etc) Ethernet goes
    up to 1Gb/s.
    Brian Gregory, Feb 25, 2015
  19. David

    Mark Carver Guest

    Over what distance though ? 100 to 200 metres for CAT 6 @ 1 Gb/s ?

    Virgin's coax transmission is modulated RF of course, not Ethernet
    Mark Carver, Feb 25, 2015
  20. David

    David Guest

    That is the official estimate, which is high.

    Actual as been 27Mb

    Everything doing so far working ok.

    Have just got a Smart UHD TV, I understand Netflix for one will be
    providing UHD material which will need that at least. So in future may
    well need more speed so would be nice to know the future will get a
    nearer cabinet to have the choice of up to 76MB service. ( ISPs will
    sign me up for it but speed will be same as up to 38Mb which of course
    is cheaper.)
    OR engineer was with me yesterday and said in fact to be put on the up
    to 76 result would be worse due to line length of almost 1 Km, did not
    make sense to me.
    At present after his reset I'm on 37Mb but of course BT DLM will get to
    work on that as soon as it senses any interference.

    As regards Virgin they offer 50, 100 and 150 Mb services with their in
    your street cabinet.

    David, Feb 25, 2015
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