TSA restricts lithium batteries on airplanes

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by TH O, Dec 29, 2007.

  1. TH O

    Guest Guest

    bingo.
     
    Guest, Jan 13, 2008
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  2. So the batteries with dangerous elemental lithium in them aren't a
    fire hazard, and the ones without elemental lithium are the fire
    hazard. Which was as I suspected: the dangerous nature of elemental
    lithium has nothing to do with the case.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 13, 2008
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  3. TH O

    John Navas Guest

    Different newsgroup.
     
    John Navas, Jan 13, 2008
  4. TH O

    acl Guest

     
    acl, Jan 13, 2008
  5. TH O

    John Navas Guest

    That's not what it says.
     
    John Navas, Jan 13, 2008
  6. TH O

    Guest Guest

    what's even more stupid is after confiscating the nail clipper, one can
    then go to an airport vendor and buy another nail clipper, inside
    security.
    el al interviews every passenger for suspicious behaviour. it doesn't
    matter if you have scissors or nail clippers or a big bottle of
    shampoo. if something doesn't add up, they'll detain you for a while
    and you might not even fly. el al thought that richard reid, the shoe
    bomber, was suspicious so they seated an air marshall next to him.
     
    Guest, Jan 13, 2008
  7. TH O

    Roger (K8RI) Guest

    Heavy duty AA...0.8 Grams.

    Roger (K8RI)
     
    Roger (K8RI), Jan 13, 2008
  8. TH O

    Roger (K8RI) Guest

    I don't find you in the data base, at least under this name.
    I only found one entry under the last name and he's a mechanic.

    Roger
     
    Roger (K8RI), Jan 13, 2008
  9. It explains the fire hazard of lithium-ion batteries quite correctly,
    which has nothing to do with the inflammatory properties of the metal
    lithium. My point was simply that those who "explain" the fire hazard
    of lithium-ion batteries by referring to the presence of
    known-to-be-inflammatory elemental metallic lithium have got their
    chemistry mixed up. You only find metallic lithium in lithium anode
    batteries, which are quite different from lithium-ion batteries, and
    as far as I know are not a fire hazard.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 13, 2008
  10. TH O

    John Navas Guest

    I must have missed that. Where exactly in TSA materials does it say
    that "known-to-be-inflammatory elemental metallic lithium" is the issue?
     
    John Navas, Jan 13, 2008
  11. It doesn't. Other posters in this thread did.
     
    Chris Malcolm, Jan 14, 2008
  12. TH O

    John Navas Guest

    You're probably making at least one assumption that isn't valid. ;)
     
    John Navas, Jan 14, 2008
  13. TH O

    Roger (K8RI) Guest

    Nope.

    Any one on the net can be any one or anything. One's persona becomes
    their credibility. We can claim most anything about anything, but
    when we make statements about ourselves, like other statements in this
    thread, we often see either: cite examples or proof. In my case any
    one can find I am a Private pilot, single engine land, Instrument
    rated. A bit of searching will find I fly a Beech Debonair (the
    forerunner of the Beech F-33 Bonanza) licensed at N833R which is a
    high performance, complex, retract. As far as aircraft go it's big for
    small planes and small for big planes and rather demanding to fly,
    particularly on instrument approaches compared to other like sized
    planes.

    All of that was part of my sig until I changed readers and have never
    gotten around to putting it back. As I one did consulting for computer
    systems my real phone number and address used to be on my home page.

    I could claim anything, but I'm just me which years of presence on the
    net will confirm. I could claim to be a retired fighter pilot (wish I
    could) and few would be able to tell the difference, but as I said,
    I'm just me. Being, male (old man), retired, and middle class, there
    is little reason for me to not use my real name and information.
    Besides, it's been on the net for so long I doubt I could hide it any
    way.

    But getting back on topic:Almost every pilot's top fear is fire and
    far more so in a 3100#, near 200 MPH, single engine plane carrying 100
    gallons of gas than in a much larger aircraft. Most of the cites for
    fires due to Lithium batteries were not due to batteries shorting to
    each other, but due to internal structural failure. A manufacturing
    defect as it is. The fire hazard is not due to the metal lithium as
    many think, but due to the tremendous energy capacity of the battery
    coupled with an extremely low internal resistance. Thus an internal
    short causes rapid heating and a fire that is self sustaining until
    the energy is gone. I've seen films/videos of some rater intense fires
    from self destructing laptops with the Sony batteries. (cost them a
    mint in recalls) In the case of a bulk shipment I agree that the mass
    of Lithium coupled with the intense energy discharge can create quite
    an intense fire that takes cooling to put out before it burns out.
    Then it would depend on the number and type of battery in the bulk
    shipment. It would not be a good idea for a bulk shipment to be packed
    with other flammables.

    BUT to go beyond that, even the old alkaline AAs in a pocket with
    loose change or keys can create a fire. As has been shown on here, so
    can a AA Lithium IN a flashlight where it can't short to anything. Any
    battery with enough energy capacity can create enough heat to create a
    fire. IF the Lithium can do so by itself then banning loose ones while
    not banning all others makes no sense. Well packed and spread out the
    danger would be less. OTOH if Laptops have been shows to
    spectacularly self destruct and some really were spectacular, then it
    would make at least as much sense to ban laptops entirely. They after
    all have shown a larger propensity to catch, or cause fires. However
    the PC thing to do is ban the individual Lithiums as it's acceptable
    to most people and sounds like the TSA is doing something helpful.
    While banning laptops would not fly with the general public, let alone
    business travelers.

    However you appear to have made up your mind so this is my last post
    in this thread
    ..
    Roger (K8RI)
     
    Roger (K8RI), Jan 15, 2008
  14. TH O

    John Navas Guest

    "Rules clarified on flying with lithium batteries"
    <http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-01-11-lithium-batteries_N.htm>

    The Department of Transportation has reissued its message -- which
    apparently got lost in translation the first time around -- regarding
    new restrictions on how batteries can be carried on airliners.

    As of Jan. 1, travelers can no longer pack loose batteries (i.e.
    those not installed in electronic devices) in checked bags. However,
    unlimited loose batteries are allowed in carry-on bags, though the
    agency "strongly recommends" separating them in individual zippered
    bags or compartments if they aren't in their original packaging.

    One exception: Passengers toting lithium batteries that have 8 to 25
    grams of equivalent lithium content are limited to two uninstalled
    batteries in each carry-on. Most consumer electronic goods such as
    laptops, digital cameras and cellphones use batteries that fall far
    short of that content. The rule was implemented to reduce the risk of
    lithium battery fires.
     
    John Navas, Jan 15, 2008
  15. TH O

    John Navas Guest

    "Rules clarified on flying with lithium batteries"
    <http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-01-11-lithium-batteries_N.htm>

    The Department of Transportation has reissued its message -- which
    apparently got lost in translation the first time around -- regarding
    new restrictions on how batteries can be carried on airliners.

    As of Jan. 1, travelers can no longer pack loose batteries (i.e.
    those not installed in electronic devices) in checked bags. However,
    unlimited loose batteries are allowed in carry-on bags, though the
    agency "strongly recommends" separating them in individual zippered
    bags or compartments if they aren't in their original packaging.

    One exception: Passengers toting lithium batteries that have 8 to 25
    grams of equivalent lithium content are limited to two uninstalled
    batteries in each carry-on. Most consumer electronic goods such as
    laptops, digital cameras and cellphones use batteries that fall far
    short of that content. The rule was implemented to reduce the risk of
    lithium battery fires.
     
    John Navas, Jan 15, 2008
  16. TH O

    John Navas Guest

    You actually are.
    The issue has been clarified by the TSA -- see my latest post -- and
    I don't think we disagree as much as you seem to think.
     
    John Navas, Jan 15, 2008
  17. TH O

    ASAAR Guest

    What you can't hide is your knowledge, credibility and generosity,
    which wouldn't be diminished even if you never had provided your
    identity. This ng has a number of valuable contributors, and you're
    certainly one of them. :)
     
    ASAAR, Jan 16, 2008
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