Tool Deletes Microsoft Piracy Alarm

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Fred Dagg, Jun 24, 2006.

  1. Fred Dagg

    Fred Dagg Guest

    On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:10:33 +1200, MaHogany <>
    exclaimed:

    >http://www.cio.com/blog_view.html?CID=22417
    >
    >"" A security analyst has released a tool that lets users remove Windows
    >Genuine Advantage Notification, part of Microsoft’s controversial
    >campaign against software counterfeiting. ... WGA will be embedded within
    >Windows Vista, Microsoft has said. ""
    >
    >There we have it - M$ Windows Vi$ta will have spyware embedded right in
    >the OS itself.


    Those that don't steal software have nothing to worry about.
     
    Fred Dagg, Jun 24, 2006
    #1
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  2. Fred Dagg

    MaHogany Guest

    http://www.cio.com/blog_view.html?CID=22417

    "" A security analyst has released a tool that lets users remove Windows
    Genuine Advantage Notification, part of Microsoft’s controversial
    campaign against software counterfeiting. ... WGA will be embedded within
    Windows Vista, Microsoft has said. ""

    There we have it - M$ Windows Vi$ta will have spyware embedded right in
    the OS itself.


    MaHogany

    --
    1/ Migration to Linux only costs money once. Higher Windows TCO is forever.
    2/ "Shared source" is a poison pill. Open Source is freedom.
    3/ Only the Windows boxes get the worms.
     
    MaHogany, Jun 24, 2006
    #2
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  3. On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:07:31 +1200, someone purporting to be Fred Dagg
    didst scrawl:

    > On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:10:33 +1200, MaHogany <>
    > exclaimed:

    *SNIP*
    >>There we have it - M$ Windows Vi$ta will have spyware embedded right in
    >>the OS itself.

    >
    > Those that don't steal software have nothing to worry about.


    Really? You don't mind if your computer "phones home" several times a day,
    reporting back goodness knows what?

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Jun 24, 2006
    #3
  4. Fred Dagg

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Fred Dagg" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:10:33 +1200, MaHogany <>
    > exclaimed:
    >
    >>http://www.cio.com/blog_view.html?CID=22417
    >>
    >>"" A security analyst has released a tool that lets users remove Windows
    >>Genuine Advantage Notification, part of Microsoft's controversial
    >>campaign against software counterfeiting. ... WGA will be embedded within
    >>Windows Vista, Microsoft has said. ""
    >>
    >>There we have it - M$ Windows Vi$ta will have spyware embedded right in
    >>the OS itself.

    >
    > Those that don't steal software have nothing to worry about.


    Exactly.
    Not being able to get free security updates from Microsoft is real
    brainwave.
    LOL

    And David keeps going on about security issues with Microsoft products, yet
    now he doesn't want people to be able to close any newly discovered security
    holes up.
    The fool has really out did himself this time.

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jun 24, 2006
    #4
  5. Fred Dagg

    E. Scrooge Guest

    "Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:07:31 +1200, someone purporting to be Fred Dagg
    > didst scrawl:
    >
    >> On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:10:33 +1200, MaHogany <>
    >> exclaimed:

    > *SNIP*
    >>>There we have it - M$ Windows Vi$ta will have spyware embedded right in
    >>>the OS itself.

    >>
    >> Those that don't steal software have nothing to worry about.

    >
    > Really? You don't mind if your computer "phones home" several times a day,
    > reporting back goodness knows what?
    >
    > --
    > Matthew Poole


    There's no need for it phone home every day at all. I do the updates
    manually when it suits me to, not when it suits Microsoft at times that
    won't suit me. I like to see what I'm getting and to see how long it's
    going to take to get it.
    Managing the updates instead of letting Microsoft doing it behind ones back
    is all very easy. Besides Microsoft don't offer updates every day, be damn
    lucky if it's even once a week on average. Those on "auto" are only going
    to have their PCs reporting in all for nothing most of the time.

    E. Scrooge

    E. Scrooge
     
    E. Scrooge, Jun 24, 2006
    #5
  6. On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:56:20 +1200, someone purporting to be E. Scrooge
    didst scrawl:

    >
    > "Matthew Poole" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...


    >>>>There we have it - M$ Windows Vi$ta will have spyware embedded right in
    >>>>the OS itself.
    >>>
    >>> Those that don't steal software have nothing to worry about.

    >>
    >> Really? You don't mind if your computer "phones home" several times a day,
    >> reporting back goodness knows what?


    > There's no need for it phone home every day at all.

    *SNIP*
    > lucky if it's even once a week on average. Those on "auto" are only going
    > to have their PCs reporting in all for nothing most of the time.
    >

    It's not the auto-update that phones home, it's the GA checker.
    Auto-update is a pull system that only gets what's advertised, but GA
    pushes information back to MS. Look it up, there's plenty about it on the
    web.

    --
    Matthew Poole
    "Don't use force. Get a bigger hammer."
     
    Matthew Poole, Jun 24, 2006
    #6
  7. Fred Dagg

    Keith Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > On Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:10:33 +1200, MaHogany <>
    > exclaimed:
    >
    > >http://www.cio.com/blog_view.html?CID=22417
    > >
    > >"" A security analyst has released a tool that lets users remove Windows
    > >Genuine Advantage Notification, part of Microsoft?s controversial
    > >campaign against software counterfeiting. ... WGA will be embedded within
    > >Windows Vista, Microsoft has said. ""
    > >
    > >There we have it - M$ Windows Vi$ta will have spyware embedded right in
    > >the OS itself.

    >
    > Those that don't steal software have nothing to worry about.
    >

    So you don't mind a private company entering your home at any time to
    search it for stolen goods? After all all you "have nothing to worry
    about".

    Besides the unauthorised search itself, it is also uses resources on
    your PC for a fruitless (daily) investigation. Is an O/S suddendly
    become stolen overnight?
     
    Keith, Jun 24, 2006
    #7
  8. Fred Dagg

    Max Burke Guest

    > Keith scribbled:

    >> says...


    >>> "" A security analyst has released a tool that lets users remove
    >>> Windows Genuine Advantage Notification, part of Microsoft?s
    >>> controversial campaign against software counterfeiting. ... WGA
    >>> will be embedded within Windows Vista, Microsoft has said. ""
    >>> There we have it - M$ Windows Vi$ta will have spyware embedded
    >>> right in the OS itself.


    >> Those that don't steal software have nothing to worry about.


    > So you don't mind a private company entering your home at any time to
    > search it for stolen goods? After all all you "have nothing to worry
    > about".


    > Besides the unauthorised search itself, it is also uses resources on
    > your PC for a fruitless (daily) investigation. Is an O/S suddendly
    > become stolen overnight?


    OTH I'm quite happy that when I go into my bank (or use telephone or online
    banking in my home) my bank *insists* that I prove I have the right to
    access my accounts using their systems and staff to access my money each and
    *EVERY* time I want to do that.

    I personally have have no objection at all with Microsoft (or any other
    software manufacturer) verifying that *I* am legally using and complying
    with the EULA that *I* agreed to when I purchased that licence.

    If anyone is to blame it's those that pirate software and those that think
    they have a right to use licenced software without having to comply with
    that licence.

    Dont like paying for the licence or the terms of the EULA? Then dont use it.
    Find something that you DONT have to pay for or has an EULA that you can
    accept. EOS.

    If anyone is to blame for the existence of WGA it's the pirates and those
    that borrow, beg, and steal then whine and bitch about it not being fair
    they have to prove they have a legal right to use the software.

    --

    Replace the obvious with paradise.net to email me
    Found Images
    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
     
    Max Burke, Jun 25, 2006
    #8
  9. T'was the Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:17:32 +1200 when I remembered Matthew
    Poole <> saying something like this:

    >Really? You don't mind if your computer "phones home" several times a day,
    >reporting back goodness knows what?


    I thought it was once every 90 days or so?
    --
    Cheers,

    Waylon Kenning.
     
    Waylon Kenning, Jun 25, 2006
    #9
  10. Fred Dagg

    Keith Guest

    In article <>, says...
    > > Keith scribbled:

    >
    > >> says...

    >
    > >>> "" A security analyst has released a tool that lets users remove
    > >>> Windows Genuine Advantage Notification, part of Microsoft?s
    > >>> controversial campaign against software counterfeiting. ... WGA
    > >>> will be embedded within Windows Vista, Microsoft has said. ""
    > >>> There we have it - M$ Windows Vi$ta will have spyware embedded
    > >>> right in the OS itself.

    >
    > >> Those that don't steal software have nothing to worry about.

    >
    > > So you don't mind a private company entering your home at any time to
    > > search it for stolen goods? After all all you "have nothing to worry
    > > about".

    >
    > > Besides the unauthorised search itself, it is also uses resources on
    > > your PC for a fruitless (daily) investigation. Is an O/S suddendly
    > > become stolen overnight?

    >
    > OTH I'm quite happy that when I go into my bank (or use telephone or online
    > banking in my home) my bank *insists* that I prove I have the right to
    > access my accounts using their systems and staff to access my money each and
    > *EVERY* time I want to do that.
    >
    > I personally have have no objection at all with Microsoft (or any other
    > software manufacturer) verifying that *I* am legally using and complying
    > with the EULA that *I* agreed to when I purchased that licence.
    >
    > If anyone is to blame it's those that pirate software and those that think
    > they have a right to use licenced software without having to comply with
    > that licence.
    >
    > Dont like paying for the licence or the terms of the EULA? Then dont use it.
    > Find something that you DONT have to pay for or has an EULA that you can
    > accept. EOS.
    >
    > If anyone is to blame for the existence of WGA it's the pirates and those
    > that borrow, beg, and steal then whine and bitch about it not being fair
    > they have to prove they have a legal right to use the software.
    >
    >

    But I did pay for my O/S. In fact I paid extra to get XP Prof.

    MS pushed out WGA as a priority update. In other words they disguised it
    as a security patch. Who reads a EULA? especially on "security" patch.

    WGA fulfills MS's own definition of spyware. Would you mind if your bank
    installed spyware on your PC without your permission (just to protect
    your account of course)?
     
    Keith, Jun 25, 2006
    #10
  11. Fred Dagg

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Max Burke wrote:
    >
    > I personally have have no objection at all with Microsoft (or any other
    > software manufacturer) verifying that *I* am legally using and complying
    > with the EULA that *I* agreed to when I purchased that licence.


    Exactly so, couldn't agree more. You are quite correct. That really does
    seem fair. MS EULA insists on PA, so the software is verified once after
    installation. Slight hassle, but job done, move on and use the software.

    But then MS changes the terms 3 years after the software is purchased
    and slyly installs some spyware that phones home every day; even sending
    details like my hard drive serial number.

    I didn't sign up for that. At all.
     
    -=rjh=-, Jun 25, 2006
    #11
  12. Fred Dagg

    Invisible Guest

    On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 18:02:44 +1200, Waylon Kenning
    <> wrote:

    >T'was the Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:17:32 +1200 when I remembered Matthew
    >Poole <> saying something like this:
    >
    >>Really? You don't mind if your computer "phones home" several times a day,
    >>reporting back goodness knows what?

    >
    >I thought it was once every 90 days or so?


    ZoneAlarm indicates mine phoning on every boot.
     
    Invisible, Jun 25, 2006
    #12
  13. Fred Dagg

    Jonno Guest

    "Invisible" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 18:02:44 +1200, Waylon Kenning
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>T'was the Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:17:32 +1200 when I remembered Matthew
    >>Poole <> saying something like this:
    >>
    >>>Really? You don't mind if your computer "phones home" several times a
    >>>day,
    >>>reporting back goodness knows what?

    >>
    >>I thought it was once every 90 days or so?

    >
    > ZoneAlarm indicates mine phoning on every boot.
    >
    >

    Have a look here then if you wish to stop it.
    http://blogs.zdnet.com/Spyware/?p=831
     
    Jonno, Jun 25, 2006
    #13
  14. Fred Dagg

    Max Burke Guest

    > Keith scribbled:

    >> Max Burke says...


    >>>> "" A security analyst has released a tool that lets users
    >>>> remove Windows Genuine Advantage Notification, part of
    >>>> Microsoft?s controversial campaign against software
    >>>> counterfeiting. ... WGA will be embedded within Windows
    >>>> Vista, Microsoft has said. "" There we have it - M$ Windows
    >>>> Vi$ta will have spyware embedded right in the OS itself.


    >>> Those that don't steal software have nothing to worry about.


    > So you don't mind a private company entering your home at any
    > time to search it for stolen goods? After all all you "have
    > nothing to worry about".


    > Besides the unauthorised search itself, it is also uses resources
    > on your PC for a fruitless (daily) investigation. Is an O/S
    > suddendly become stolen overnight?


    >> OTH I'm quite happy that when I go into my bank (or use telephone
    >> or online banking in my home) my bank *insists* that I prove I
    >> have the right to access my accounts using their systems and staff
    >> to access my money each and *EVERY* time I want to do that.


    >> I personally have have no objection at all with Microsoft (or any
    >> other software manufacturer) verifying that *I* am legally using
    >> and complying with the EULA that *I* agreed to when I purchased
    >> that licence.


    >> If anyone is to blame it's those that pirate software and those
    >> that think they have a right to use licenced software without
    >> having to comply with that licence.


    >> Dont like paying for the licence or the terms of the EULA? Then
    >> dont use it. Find something that you DONT have to pay for or has an
    >> EULA that you can accept. EOS.


    >> If anyone is to blame for the existence of WGA it's the pirates and
    >> those that borrow, beg, and steal then whine and bitch about it not
    >> being fair they have to prove they have a legal right to use the
    >> software.


    > But I did pay for my O/S. In fact I paid extra to get XP Prof.


    You paid for a *licence* to use the OS. And you were apparently happy to pay
    the price and accept the terms and conditions of buying and using the
    licence.

    > MS pushed out WGA as a priority update. In other words they disguised
    > it as a security patch.


    That ALL pop up an EULA window that you *have to either accept or decline to
    install it BEFORE you can use it.*

    Spyware does NOT do that.

    > Who reads a EULA?


    You obviously should since you're making claims about the EULA that are NOT
    true.

    > especially on "security"
    > patch.


    Why dont you?

    > WGA fulfills MS's own definition of spyware.


    Cite? Reference? Links?

    > Would you mind if your
    > bank installed spyware on your PC without your permission (just to
    > protect your account of course)?


    Banks and Microsoft have NOT done that. In fact many banks are considering
    requiring their customers to install similar security software like WGA as a
    security measure for online banking. Only it's not spyware. Real spyware
    does NOT let you know it's being installed or running on your computer. The
    WGA does, and requires you to agree to it's installation. Or at least it did
    with me. How come it didn't with you?

    MS does get your permission to install WGA. Or are you saying you didn't
    have to accept any EULA for WGA when it was downloaded and installed on your
    computer?

    Those that don't steal software have nothing to worry about.

    --

    Replace the obvious with paradise.net to email me
    Found Images
    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
     
    Max Burke, Jun 25, 2006
    #14
  15. Fred Dagg

    Max Burke Guest

    -=rjh=- scribbled:
    > Max Burke wrote:
    > >
    > > I personally have have no objection at all with Microsoft (or any
    > > other software manufacturer) verifying that *I* am legally using
    > > and complying with the EULA that *I* agreed to when I purchased
    > > that licence.

    >
    > Exactly so, couldn't agree more. You are quite correct. That really
    > does seem fair. MS EULA insists on PA, so the software is verified
    > once after installation. Slight hassle, but job done, move on and use
    > the software.
    > But then MS changes the terms 3 years after the software is purchased
    > and slyly installs some spyware that phones home every day; even
    > sending details like my hard drive serial number.
    >
    > I didn't sign up for that. At all.


    Yes, you did when you clicked on the 'I accept' radio button on the EULA
    when WGA was installed.

    --

    Replace the obvious with paradise.net to email me
    Found Images
    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
     
    Max Burke, Jun 25, 2006
    #15
  16. Fred Dagg

    Max Burke Guest

    Invisible scribbled:
    > On Sun, 25 Jun 2006 18:02:44 +1200, Waylon Kenning
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > > T'was the Sat, 24 Jun 2006 23:17:32 +1200 when I remembered Matthew
    > > Poole <> saying something like this:
    > >
    > > > Really? You don't mind if your computer "phones home" several
    > > > times a day, reporting back goodness knows what?

    > >
    > > I thought it was once every 90 days or so?

    >
    > ZoneAlarm indicates mine phoning on every boot.


    It's being changed to once every 14 days some time next month....

    --

    Replace the obvious with paradise.net to email me
    Found Images
    http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~mlvburke
     
    Max Burke, Jun 25, 2006
    #16
  17. Fred Dagg

    Keith Guest

    In article <>, says...
    > > Keith scribbled:

    >
    > > WGA fulfills MS's own definition of spyware.

    >
    > Cite? Reference? Links?


    http://windowssecrets.com/comp/060615/#story1

    http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/spyware/software/msft/analysis.
    mspx

    "But an important distinction between spyware and legitimate software is
    that legitimate software should provide a clear way to turn these
    settings off or on, or to change them."

    "Deceptive behaviors. Runs processes or programs on the user's computer
    without notifying the user and getting the user's consent. Prevents
    users from controlling the actions taken by the program while it runs on
    the computer. Prevents users from uninstalling or removing the program."

    "Performance. Undermines performance, reliability, and quality of the
    user's computing experience with slow computer speed, reduced
    productivity, or corruption of the operating system."

    "Software that exhibits poor consent:
    ....SNIP..
    =3F Fails to provide explicit opt-in choices for the collection of user-
    specific information (beyond the posting of licensing terms). Notifying
    a user about the existence of licensing terms is not considered a
    sufficient means of receiving their consent for the functionality
    included in the program."


    *NOTIFYING A USER ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF LICENSING TERMS IS NOT
    CONSIDERED A SUFFICIENT MEANS OF RECEIVING THEIR CONSENT *
     
    Keith, Jun 25, 2006
    #17
  18. In article <>,
    says...
    >
    > Those that don't steal software have nothing to worry about.
    >


    Fred, switch on the brain before typing. How long exactly do you think it will
    take until the thing gets hacked and people start using it to install zombie-
    ware on your machine? Like Sony's rootkit. Nothing to worry about either, I
    suppose.

    I just needed to install the .net 2 runtimes. MS wanted to install Windows
    Genuine Advantage before letting me download. I declined and chose to use the
    'alternative verification' method instead. About 3 minutes later my firewall
    notified me that WGA was tying to phone home.

    What do you think of such underhanded tactics?

    What do you think of the trick that, when I blocked WGA my network crashed?
    It came right back up once I killed the WGA process.

    Great. Nothing to worry about. Right. Sure.

    -Peter

    --
    =========================================
    firstname dot lastname at gmail fullstop com
     
    Peter Huebner, Jun 27, 2006
    #18
  19. Fred Dagg

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Max Burke wrote:
    > -=rjh=- scribbled:
    >> Max Burke wrote:
    >> >
    >> > I personally have have no objection at all with Microsoft (or any
    >> > other software manufacturer) verifying that *I* am legally using
    >> > and complying with the EULA that *I* agreed to when I purchased
    >> > that licence.

    >>
    >> Exactly so, couldn't agree more. You are quite correct. That really
    >> does seem fair. MS EULA insists on PA, so the software is verified
    >> once after installation. Slight hassle, but job done, move on and use
    >> the software.
    >> But then MS changes the terms 3 years after the software is purchased
    >> and slyly installs some spyware that phones home every day; even
    >> sending details like my hard drive serial number.
    >>
    >> I didn't sign up for that. At all.

    >
    > Yes, you did when you clicked on the 'I accept' radio button on the EULA
    > when WGA was installed.
    >


    Not so - I had an agreement with MS when I *first* installed; 3 years
    later, they changed the terms, not me; if I don't like those terms
    (assuming that these are even fully disclosed in the EULA - and they are
    not) my *only* option is not to install WGA, and that basically makes my
    bought and paid for Windows installation useless.

    Not what I originally signed up for, at all.
     
    -=rjh=-, Jun 27, 2006
    #19

  20. >
    > Not so - I had an agreement with MS when I *first* installed; 3 years
    > later, they changed the terms, not me; if I don't like those terms
    > (assuming that these are even fully disclosed in the EULA - and they are
    > not) my *only* option is not to install WGA, and that basically makes my
    > bought and paid for Windows installation useless.
    >
    > Not what I originally signed up for, at all.


    What part of the new EULA don't you like and why? ie what do you have
    against WGA?


    Thanks
     
    Craig Whitmore, Jun 27, 2006
    #20
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