To DVD ot not To DVD? (DVD ot PVR)

Discussion in 'Computer Information' started by Bazzer Smith, Sep 1, 2006.

  1. Bazzer Smith

    Agamemnon Guest

    What's more it will put an end to video piracy since who is going to
    manufacture expensive iPods just to sell one film.
     
    Agamemnon, Sep 1, 2006
    #21
    1. Advertisements

  2. Bazzer Smith

    Pyriform Guest

    Well, I have some sympathy with your wish that things were other than they
    are, but they aren't. It is not (in general) possible to convert the DVB
    transport stream into a valid DVD format without a significant amount of
    processing, despite the fact that they both use MPEG-2. And I'm sure you
    would be the first person on here complaining if your new PVR/DVD-R wrote
    DVDs that your aunty's DVD player couldn't play. You'd be telling us how
    stupid it all was.
    You'll find something not to like, trust me.
    I've reviewed what I've written, and determined that all the correct words
    are present, and most of them are in the right order. If you still don't
    understand what I'm saying, it is probably beyond my power to assist you
    further. I do note, however, that you have now slipped in the requirement to
    be able to record complete multiplexes. You really are never satisfied, are
    you?
    Right. So you've moved from complaining about there not being any twin tuner
    PVRs with built-in DVD-Rs to denouncing the DVD format itself. That's
    progress of a sort, I suppose. So we'll take your original requirement off
    the list, shall we?
    Yes, quite right. Everybody but you is a fool.
    Betamax didn't really last that long. It suffered a slow, lingering death
    following a not very illustrious career (and I speak as someone who still
    has a Sony C7 in his loft - about £1500 worth of kit, at 2005 prices,
    apparently). DVD, on the other hand, has been phenomenally successful.

    [Remaining rant about how things keep changing snipped]
     
    Pyriform, Sep 1, 2006
    #22
    1. Advertisements

  3. Bazzer Smith

    Agamemnon Guest

    Then make the PVR DVD combo with a faster processor.
    Its stupid because the DVD player format should have been designed to
    playback MPEG files as data. DivX players can already do that with MPEG-4 so
    why not MPEG-2.
    Its too expensive, and too slow. 25 GB in 1 hour is ridiculous. Its cheaper
    to buy a stand alone portable HDD and back up to 300 GB on that instead in
    the same hour. What's more the data on the HDD can easily be altered whereas
    that on the BD disc will not.

    Here you go. 300 GB external drive for only £90. That's cheaper than an
    internal SATA drive of the same capacity.

    http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/specpage.html?MAX-U15E30

    Whereas a 50 GB BD-RE disc will cost £45. THEY MUST BE OUT OF THEIR RAVING
    MINDS !

    http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/storage/0,39020366,39282192,00.htm
    You obviously cannot understand a simple question. Who wants a DVD recorder
    with two DVD decks ?
    Replace it with an Ethernet port. After it took me an hour to burn one and a
    half hours of programming onto DVD compared to only 15 minutes when I burned
    it as data I have decided that DVD-Video is a waste of time. In future I
    will get a PVR and copy the programmes I want to keep on my computer as
    data, and if I want to watch them I will transfer them back or wait for a
    PVR that as well as having an Ethernet port can also play back video files
    off a network drive. After all a video iPod can already do most of that
    already.
    Yes that seems to be mostly true for the people running these consumer
    electronics companies. I pity then.
    It cost £700 when it originally came out over 20 years ago so its probably
    more than that.
    So was Vinyl and where's that now. Nobody ever used it as a recording
    format.
     
    Agamemnon, Sep 2, 2006
    #23
  4. Bazzer Smith

    Bazzer Smith Guest


    well maybe not but u r harldy the sixth Iman
     
    Bazzer Smith, Sep 2, 2006
    #24
  5. Bazzer Smith

    Marky P Guest

    New vinyl sales are increasing year on year. It's a small percentage
    admittedly, & it will never be a mainstream product again but as a
    vinyl junkie, thought I'd better mention it. And yes, they do still
    make vinyl records :)

    Marky P.
     
    Marky P, Sep 2, 2006
    #25
  6. Bazzer Smith

    Pyriform Guest

    We'll try this one last time, shall we?

    We have:

    a) single tuner Freeview HDD/DVD-R recorders.
    b) twin tuner Freeview HDD recorders.

    We want:

    Twin tuner Freeview HDD/DVD-R recorders.

    I discussed the implications of adding a second tuner to case (a). You would
    need a second MPEG-2 encoder (and the license to go with it). This has
    nothing to do with wanting a second DVD deck. Of course, there are other
    many other design issues I didn't even touch upon.

    I discussed the implications of adding a DVD-R to case (b). Only one MPEG-2
    encoder needed, but issues surrounding user expectations of how the machine
    should work.

    Either way, there are significant technical issues to solve. It's not just a
    case of adding a £20 DVD writer into the case, as many people seem to think.
    It's certainly possible that workable solutions will emerge in the future,
    but I wouldn't hold your breath.
     
    Pyriform, Sep 2, 2006
    #26
  7. Bazzer Smith

    Agamemnon Guest

    Do you have any idea how a HDD PVR works ?

    The bit stream is written directly do disk. You can even dump the entire
    multiplex to disk. Its already MPEG so it does not need a second MPEG-2
    encoder when a two tuners are used with a DVD recorder and a HDD.
     
    Agamemnon, Sep 2, 2006
    #27
  8. Bazzer Smith

    Pyriform Guest

    Yes. It's fairly evident that you don't know how any of this technology
    works, however - and frankly, I'm bored trying to explain it to you.
     
    Pyriform, Sep 2, 2006
    #28
  9. Bazzer Smith

    Agamemnon Guest

    No. Its abundantly clear that you not only don't understand the technology
    but you can't understand English either.
     
    Agamemnon, Sep 2, 2006
    #29
  10. If you mean "it's already mpeg so is in a suitable format to be written
    to a dvd video disk" you're wrong.

    As has already been explained, the spec for the broadcast transport
    stream is far less restrictive than that for dvd video data. A killer
    problem is that dvd video data has to have one of a small number of
    resolutions; the transport stream doesn't have the same restriction.

    The result? Such streams can only be recorded to dvd video after
    transcoding. That is a slow & costly process.

    No one is going to want to wait that long when instructing their
    recorder to in their minds merely 'copy' data from the hard drive to a
    dvd. The only way to avoid that delay is to ensure the data is written
    to the hard drive in that format in the first place, which means real
    time transcoding support for /all/ sources of video data.
    ....so the above is still wrong.
     
    Michael Rozdoba, Sep 2, 2006
    #30
  11. Bazzer Smith

    Pyriform Guest

    Nicely put. However, I'm fairly sure the guy is ineducable and we're both
    wasting our time!
     
    Pyriform, Sep 2, 2006
    #31
  12. Bazzer Smith

    Agamemnon Guest

    No I do not. Its already MPEG so it can be written directly to the hard
    drive without the need for further compression.
    I hope that the developers of Blu-Ray are not equally as stupid. Should have
    stored the entire thing as data from the start, like DivX.
    PVRs do not transcode the data that's on the hard drive. They record it and
    play it back as broadcast.
    The above is right. You have no idea how a HDD PVR works.
     
    Agamemnon, Sep 2, 2006
    #32
  13. Bazzer Smith

    Agamemnon Guest

    Another person that has no idea how a HDD PVR works.
     
    Agamemnon, Sep 2, 2006
    #33
  14. My Humax PVR9200T demonstrates that the above is incorrect. VideoRedo
    can quickly reduce the transport stream to elementary streams without
    transcoding, and DVDAuthor can quickly produce burnable files from them.

    Matti
     
    Matti Lamprhey, Sep 2, 2006
    #34
  15. Bazzer Smith

    Mike Henry Guest

    No it doesn't. The part about broadcasts not being restricted to the
    small number of valid DVD-Video resolutions is perfectly correct. The
    part about those invalid DVD-Video resolutions needing to be re-encoded
    if you want to make a DVD from them is also correct. We've been around
    this loop before (the "As has already been explained" part).
    That is only if the broadcast was at a suitable resolution for DVD
    (720x576, 704x576, 352x576 (625/50)). VideoRedo is excellent and knows
    that if the resolution and bitrates are valid, then it only needs to
    change the GOP size (which involves re-encoding a minimal number of
    frames, hence the speed). Other software such as Nero loves re-encoding
    an entire file from scratch given the slightest whiff of a chance, and
    too many frames in a GOP is one of the excuses it jumps on.

    However the only way to produce a valid DVD-Video from a 540x576
    broadcast is to re-encode every single frame to one of the resolutions
    that DVD-Video allows.
     
    Mike Henry, Sep 3, 2006
    #35
  16. Bazzer Smith

    Mike Redrobe Guest

    That produces a "slightly" non standard DVD.
    It will probably play fine on many players which aren't fussy - but it
    isn't guaranteed, and is out of spec.

    Most freeview resolutions are not part of the DVD spec, so in order
    to make a fully compaible and standard compliant DVD Video,
    you would have to re-encode *every frame*. That takes a long time...

    E.g. BBC are standard DVD resolution (720x576) but most others
    are 544x576 .. which is not in the DVD standard..
     
    Mike Redrobe, Sep 3, 2006
    #36
  17. Bazzer Smith

    Ian Guest

    After praising Film4 for lack of logo and fewer ads, I'm now finding
    that I can't make DVDs of their movies because of the "long GOP".

    Could this be deliberate?
     
    Ian, Sep 3, 2006
    #37
  18. I've only tried making a DVD from one Film4 offering (The Trouble With
    Harry), using VideoReDo/DVDAuthor from a Humax file, and that was no
    problem at all.

    However, it may be that VideoReDo silently 'improved' the GOP lengths.

    Matti
     
    Matti Lamprhey, Sep 3, 2006
    #38
  19. Bazzer Smith

    Mike Henry Guest

    Perhaps it doesn't produce a log file. But yes, as I said in my other
    posting, it is very good and can change the GOP length (which will
    involve re-encoding a number of frames from scratch, but not the whole
    file).

    Now try the same on a channel that broadcasts at 544x576 or 540x576. It
    cannot be done without re-encoding every single frame.
     
    Mike Henry, Sep 3, 2006
    #39
  20. Why would you need 2 encoders? As there is only 1 DVD drive, only 1 MPEG2
    bitstream needs to be transcoded ready to write to DVD. If multiple
    bitstreams need to be transcoded, it would need to carry out these
    serially, with the attendant delay.

    Bruce S.
     
    Bruce Stewart, Sep 3, 2006
    #40
    1. Advertisements

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.