ThumbsPlus and an "ORIENTATION" flag in Jpeg photos ?

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by QuienEs, Oct 10, 2004.

  1. QuienEs

    QuienEs Guest

    My wife was given hundreds of large [around 2MB ea] old scanned family
    photos - the idea being for me, the techie, to show them to her with a
    ThumbsPlus 6 slide show. A large percentage of them need to be
    rotated 90 degrees clockwise for proper viewing on a PC

    The person who scanned them says he didn't rotate them because there
    would be a loss of quality - the idea here being that if they were to
    be printed it's better that they were not pre-rotated. I don't
    necessarily agree with his "loss of quality" belief, but that's not
    my main question.

    He says that those that need rotation-on-viewing have some sort of
    internal flag [put in by him] and that he believes there is a way in
    ThumbsPlus to tell it to inspect that flag during a slide show and
    rotate them before display. If that's true with Thumbs I cannot find
    the option.

    The question is how do I get to that option in Thumbs, or in any other
    popular program capable of doing slide shows ?

    FYI, I know how to easily copy them from the data-DVD to my hard
    drive and sort the thumbnails by orientation, then apply a batch
    rotate to those that need it- and that's my next step if I can't find
    any hidden secrets from readers of this ng.

    TIA, QE in NJ
     
    QuienEs, Oct 10, 2004
    #1
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  2. QuienEs

    Mike Fields Guest

    Just looked at the Thumbs Plus web page and couldn't find what I
    was looking for, but I seem to remember that the new version 7
    (I have not downloaded my copy yet) supports the "rotation flag"
    or maybe it is called an "orientation flag" -- something like that
    in the EXIF header on JPEG pictures. Some cameras create
    this flag to tell the orientation of the camera when the picture
    was taken ... I don't have a clue what it does if you are shooting
    straight up .. maybe it just does not matter. I seem to remember that
    from earlier emails on the new features in version 7. You might
    also want to check out the Thumbs Plus newsgroups from
    Cerious -- they have their own news server for their support.
    -- the server is news.cerious.com and there are several support
    groups with lots of good info in them.

    mikey
     
    Mike Fields, Oct 10, 2004
    #2
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  3. QuienEs

    QuienEs Guest

    Thanks Mikey, for your help. I configured another instance of Agent,
    for news.cerious.com and searched all the headers for
    {ROTATE} | {ORIENTATION} and have a lot of reading to do.

    At first blush, it looks like the feature has been implemented in one
    or more recent releases, and that it is causing problems for some
    users because their cameras don't do the EXIF tag/flag correctly.

    Anyway, the charm was you suggesting the right word "rotate",
    that gets me much more reading material.

    Cheers, QE
    ================


    On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:11:54 GMT, "Mike Fields"

    |Just looked at the Thumbs Plus web page and couldn't find what I
    |was looking for, but I seem to remember that the new version 7
    |(I have not downloaded my copy yet) supports the "rotation flag"
    |or maybe it is called an "orientation flag" -- something like that
    |in the EXIF header on JPEG pictures. Some cameras create
    |this flag to tell the orientation of the camera when the picture
    |was taken ... I don't have a clue what it does if you are shooting
    |straight up .. maybe it just does not matter. I seem to remember that
    |from earlier emails on the new features in version 7. You might
    |also want to check out the Thumbs Plus newsgroups from
    |Cerious -- they have their own news server for their support.
    |-- the server is news.cerious.com and there are several support
    |groups with lots of good info in them.
    |
    |mikey
    |
    ||> My wife was given hundreds of large [around 2MB ea] old scanned
    family
    |> photos - the idea being for me, the techie, to show them to her
    with a
    |> ThumbsPlus 6 slide show. A large percentage of them need to be
    |> rotated 90 degrees clockwise for proper viewing on a PC
    |>
    |> The person who scanned them says he didn't rotate them because
    there
    |> would be a loss of quality - the idea here being that if they were
    to
    |> be printed it's better that they were not pre-rotated. I don't
    |> necessarily agree with his "loss of quality" belief, but that's
    not
    |> my main question.
    |>
    |> He says that those that need rotation-on-viewing have some sort of
    |> internal flag [put in by him] and that he believes there is a way
    in
    |> ThumbsPlus to tell it to inspect that flag during a slide show and
    |> rotate them before display. If that's true with Thumbs I cannot
    find
    |> the option.
    |>
    |> The question is how do I get to that option in Thumbs, or in any
    other
    |> popular program capable of doing slide shows ?
    |>
    |> FYI, I know how to easily copy them from the data-DVD to my hard
    |> drive and sort the thumbnails by orientation, then apply a batch
    |> rotate to those that need it- and that's my next step if I can't
    find
    |> any hidden secrets from readers of this ng.
    |>
    |> TIA, QE in NJ
    |>
    |>
    |>
    |
     
    QuienEs, Oct 10, 2004
    #3
  4. QuienEs

    Mike Fields Guest

    Glad I could help -- one of those things that only takes seconds to
    find in a search engine .... after you spend HOURS figuring out
    what the key word is to search for !!

    mikey
     
    Mike Fields, Oct 10, 2004
    #4
  5. QuienEs

    Gadgets Guest

    For compatibility with other apps, you might want to rotate them any way.
    Rotating once is going to cause so minimal a quality loss it's not going to
    matter. Rotate 20 times and you'll see some change... the pixel calcs just
    aren't perfectly accurate.

    Cheers, Jason (remove ... to reply)
    Video & Gaming: http://gadgetaus.com
     
    Gadgets, Oct 10, 2004
    #5
  6. Hi

    I don't think there's any photo program out there that 'automatically'
    recognizes if an image is rotated or not (how does it know?). Only a
    human can 'tag' the image to tell the software. If you're interested,
    Adobe Photoshop Album 2 is a good software for tagging images.

    Gary Hendricks
    www.basic-digital-photography.com
     
    Gary Hendricks, Oct 11, 2004
    #6
  7. Newer Canon and Nikon cameras record the orientation of the photo in the EXIF
    information, and smart software can rotate the picture when downloading it. My
    Olympus cameras can be told to rotate pictures during the review on the LCD,
    and the camera sets the orientation flag (I believe my friend's 717 can also do
    this). My download software does this autoration, and it is fairly useful. I
    am hoping that my next camera will automatically set the orientation flag.
     
    Michael Meissner, Oct 11, 2004
    #7
  8. QuienEs

    Paul Coen Guest

    I'm going to guess (and it's only a guess) that the Minolta Maxxum 7D will
    as well. The original Maxxum 7 film camera can detect orientation -- the
    informational LCD panel on the back of it will change the display to the
    appropriate direction - horizontal, right side down, left side down (no, it
    doesn't recognize upside-down :). I'd be surprised if they don't extend
    that to recording orientation on the digital model.
     
    Paul Coen, Oct 11, 2004
    #8
  9. Given the right program, 90 degree rotation of JPEG images can be
    completely lossless. It does /not/ need to involve "pixel calcs" at all.

    Software example:
    PIE - Picture Information Extractor www.picmeta.com

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Oct 11, 2004
    #9
  10. They mention having the LCD rotate the images based on the orientation of the
    camera, so it would make sense that they would record the orientation in the
    EXIF fields. But sometimes camera companies do silly things. Upside down
    would be useful when the camera is mounted on a tripod with a reversable center
    column for macro shots.
     
    Michael Meissner, Oct 12, 2004
    #10
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