The ethics of returning cameras to the dealer.

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by irwell, Jun 16, 2007.

  1. irwell

    irwell Guest

    We all expect our cameras to be in pristine condition when we buy
    them as new from the dealer.

    How about the dealer when the customer returns a camera he
    does not like?

    Over on Dpreview one writer sent back a Sony camera he did
    not like. He also wrote that he had performed Eddy Current tests at
    his lab to see if the case was metal, or not.

    Asked if he has informed the dealer of the test, no reply so far.

    Maybe the NDT is safe, but would anyone really buy a new camera
    that has been subjected to unknown tests?
     
    irwell, Jun 16, 2007
    #1
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  2. irwell

    Shawn Hirn Guest

    The camera should be sold at a discount either as used, open box, or
    refurbished. I assume the merchant charged a restocking fee to offset
    the cost of this return.
     
    Shawn Hirn, Jun 16, 2007
    #2
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  3. irwell wrote:
    ...
    And why would anyone really care if the case was metal or not?
     
    Joseph Meehan, Jun 16, 2007
    #3
  4. irwell

    ben brugman Guest

    Yes, should,
    But if you want to be reasonably sure that you actually get a new camera,
    buy at a place that does not accept returned camera's or only in a sealed
    box.

    If you want to have the freedom to return the camera, you should accept
    that you can receive a camera that has been returned.

    ben
     
    ben brugman, Jun 16, 2007
    #4
  5. More than "should"; there are fairly stringent federal laws forbidding
    the sale of used merchandise as new. (Not that they aren't ignored at
    times).

    Back when I was in retail, we were small enough that we had very few
    returns (less likely to return something you've actually been able to
    handle and have demonstrated), and avoided restocking fees for customer
    relations. We just ate the loss.
     
    Scott Schuckert, Jun 16, 2007
    #5
  6. Depends. Did the dealer or the camera manufacturer include the words
    "satisfaction guarenteed" in any of the advertising?

    I have returned things that were defective and had them replaced under
    warranty.
     
    Ockham's Razor, Jun 16, 2007
    #6
  7. irwell

    george Guest

    How about the people who "cherry pick" lenses? I've seen postings from
    people who've said that they've purchased four (and returned three)
    "samples" of a particular lens before they got a "good one". Should you
    take the first one and deal with warranty service to "make it good"???
     
    george, Jun 16, 2007
    #7
  8. irwell

    Bill Funk Guest

    It was RichA.

    --
    THIS IS A SIG LINE; NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!

    Hillary Clinton gave a high school commencement
    speech at Constitution Hall in Washington D.C.
    on Wednesday. She loves speaking at school
    graduations. Normally when she tells people
    how they should live, they are not required
    to sit still for it.
     
    Bill Funk, Jun 16, 2007
    #8
  9. irwell

    ASAAR Guest

    <g> I'm glad I wasn't eating when I saw that.
     
    ASAAR, Jun 16, 2007
    #9
  10. I rather suspect (given the current dry cleaner/lost pants lawsuit)
    that the words "satisfaction guaranteed" will shortly disappear from
    the earth. I'D certainly never make such an open-ended promise.
    Different scenario. In most, but not all cases, the distributor will
    take back a certain number of "bad on initial use" items from the
    retailer. A store that abuses this may have the privilege revoked.
     
    Scott Schuckert, Jun 17, 2007
    #10
  11. That's tough. Something like a lens, which definitely does vary in hard
    to detect ways, SHOULD be possible to evaluate before "final" purchase
    - in an ideal world. But that creates a real nightmare for the
    retailer. He's at the least (assuming the distributor won't take them
    back) going sell three lenses below cost.

    If I were still in retail cameras, I'd really have to deny the return
    or charge a nasty restocking fee.

    So I guess I'd recommend what I actually do these days - luck of the
    draw when you buy a lens, and if it's truly off-spec send it back for
    repair. (or try to).
     
    Scott Schuckert, Jun 17, 2007
    #11
  12. That's normal when you're buying Canon's L glass. If I'm going to be
    spending $1,200+ for a lens I sure as hell am going to pick the best of the
    litter. Of course, the new Mk III with "AF Micro-adjustment" is supposed to
    eliminate this to a point.







    Rita
     
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=, Jun 17, 2007
    #12
  13. irwell

    Colin_D Guest

    You can bet that most pro photogs who have any clout with a wholesaler
    will have cherry-picked the crop of new cameras and/or lenses before
    they even get to retail.

    I had a relative (uncle) who worked at a university, and his department
    were in the market for good camera, this was back in the sixties, so
    they contacted the wholesaler of Rollei equipment and had *twenty* f/2.8
    Planar-equipped rolleiflexes shipped to the uni, from which they
    selected one, and sent the other 19 back.

    This appears to be fairly common practice with departments of large
    organizations. What price the private individual who gets the pick of
    the rejects after the big boys have had their selection?

    Colin D.
     
    Colin_D, Jun 17, 2007
    #13
  14. In Denmark, all mail-order purchases can be returned within 14 days for
    a full refund. It's stated in the law, with exemptions for food and
    such. Internet-bases stores count as mail-order.

    The rationale behind it is just what you suggest: The customer has a
    right to evaluate a product before purchase.
    On the other hand, one could argue that it's not a fair bargain if one
    of the parties feels cheated or dissapointed when he learns about what
    he really got out of it.

    I have no real solution for the current case, where it's hard to
    evaluate the products and thus to differentiate the prices, based on
    quality.
     
    Toke Eskildsen, Jun 17, 2007
    #14
  15. irwell

    Ron Hunter Guest

    If the court does anything OTHER than awarding the plaintiff the cost of
    the pants, and charging HIM for the cost of the defendant's legal fees,
    then the idea of justice in the courts had gone over to the dark side.
    The suit is frivolous, and downright punitive. The plaintiff should be
    held in contempt of court for such a ridiculous suit.
     
    Ron Hunter, Jun 17, 2007
    #15
  16. What ever gave you the idea that courts and justice have anything to do with
    each other?

    jue
     
    Jürgen Exner, Jun 17, 2007
    #16
  17. irwell

    Dave Devine Guest

    Same here in Germany. Of course, this leads to people "buying" a camera
    or video camera just before an event, using it at the event then
    "deciding" that it wasn"t what they really wanted and returning it, no
    questions asked and postage paid. In effect, a no-fee rental.
    You can't tell me that retailers are not adjusting their prices to cover
    their costs involved here. So now the small amount of people who had
    been ripped off via mail order are protected at the expense of literally
    everyone.

    Dave
     
    Dave Devine, Jun 17, 2007
    #17
  18. Some people are just naive. Winning in court hinges around having the
    better liar, or should I say lawyer. Truth and justice are always left
    outside on the marble steps of the courthouse.






    Rita
     
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=, Jun 17, 2007
    #18
  19. Dave Devine wrote:
    []
    I see that as morally wrong. It does then lead me to the question,
    though: how much testing is reasonable?

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Jun 17, 2007
    #19
  20. I'm sure that happens, but have no idea about how much.
    Of course they are. But somehow they still manage to generally have
    significant lower prices than the over-the-counter stores. There's
    advantages and disadvantages to both ways of selling (and buying).
    Historically, there has been a lot of reluctance among the danes to buy
    things on the net. By introducing rules such as the 14 day return
    policy, more people feel safe and therefore uses the shops. It's a lot
    easier to know about general rules than to have to dig through every
    new netshop's written policy on returns, warrenties and such. Although
    this makes it harder to run a shop, there is more customers overall. At
    least that's one theory.

    I guess this comes down to ones view on politics and I won't claim that
    the danish way in inherently better for the market overall. But I do
    claim that it is a mistake to see things as narrow as you present it.


    Now, how do we turn this back to photography?
     
    Toke Eskildsen, Jun 17, 2007
    #20
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