Telecom's answer to all about not having to unbundle

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by Carl Elphick, Dec 29, 2003.

  1. Carl Elphick

    Carl Elphick Guest

    (from stuff)

    Telecom is to increase its telephone line rental charge for residential
    customers by about 50c a month in February next year, the company said

    Telecom head of consumer marketing Victoria Crone said the increase
    reflected "pressure on the cost of providing free local calling to dial up
    the Internet".

    "Local calling volumes increased by 10.8 per cent in the past 12 months -
    mainly reflecting calls to the Internet - and this small increase of 1.5 per
    cent, which is in line with inflation, will help cover the cost of providing
    for the calling load," Ms Crone said in a statement.
    Carl Elphick, Dec 29, 2003
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  2. Carl Elphick

    steve Guest

    .....and no indidcation as to whether the 10.8% increase in local calls
    was residential or business?

    Telecom has juxtaposed the free-calling cost myth along side the 10.8%
    increase....without drawing a line between the two.

    Having seen Telecom 'spin' like this before, I know thay can't be trusted.
    steve, Dec 29, 2003
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  3. What they should just say is that we have to put the price up now because we
    cant put it up at any other time because of the archaic kiwishare.
    Richard Malcolm-Smith, Dec 29, 2003
  4. Carl Elphick

    sal Guest

    I wonder if that 'increase in load' only applies to dial up users, or
    users using ADSL. I wonder when more users move off dialup to
    broadband (if tele$com ever make it affordable, and now not likely due
    the to un bundling issue), if tele$com will reduce the line charges to
    reflect the lessening of the load. Tele$com always seem to increase
    their charges at Christmas, when everyones minds are on different
    things. Unfortunately I believe this company is ripping us off,
    especially as we were once its owners, but their is nothing we can do
    as they are a monopoly and have friends in high places with financial
    interests in the company.
    sal, Dec 29, 2003
  5. Carl Elphick

    sal Guest

    Thank god that the kiwi share agreeement is there, otherwise many
    people could simply not afford to call anyone, and landline calls
    would probably be almost as expensive as cellphone calls.
    sal, Dec 29, 2003
  6. Carl Elphick

    Warwick Guest

    From the Kiwi Share ..., The/Telecom Kiwi Share/kiwi_share deed_final.htm

    7.1 Principle 1 - A local free-calling option for local residential
    telephone service will be maintained for all Telecom residential customers.
    Telecom may, however, offer other optional packages (including on a
    geographical or customer segment basis and which include call and other
    charges) to those who wish to take them as an alternative.

    7.2 Principle 2 ¡V Telecom will charge no more than the standard
    residential rental for local residential telephone service. The pre-GST
    standard residential rental (as it was at 1 November 1989) will not be
    increased in real terms provided that the overall profitability of
    Telecom¡¦s fixed business, as evidenced by audited accounts prepared for
    that business, is not or will not be unreasonably impaired. Telecom may
    selectively offer lower prices (including on a geographical or customer
    segment basis) if it wishes.

    Ms Crones announcement appears to be a subversion of the kiwi share - it is
    for sure an increase in line rental.

    This might explain their peculiar attitude to adsl. It is after all a
    brilliant way of restoring bandwidth to that part of the copper network
    that deals with voice. By making dial-up more attractive than adsl they can
    then claim that load on the network justifies them violating section 7.2
    and they can do as they please with line rentals.

    I think they are thieves.

    btw I wrote to the commerce commission and asked them to voluntarily
    disclose the extent of their own shareholding in Telecom - so we could
    better 'understand a puzzling decision'. I did that as soon as the
    announcement was made - so far they refuse to answer or acknowledge the

    Warwick, Dec 29, 2003
  7. *SNIP*

    "increased in real terms" means that they're not allowed to increase by
    more than the rate of inflation (as measured by the Consumer Price
    Index) in any given year unless they can prove that their operating
    profitability will be unreasonably impacted.
    They're working precisely within the letter of the Kiwi Share, as one
    expects a company to do, but unfortunately the KS Is poorly written and
    never accounted for the possibility that Telescum's operating costs
    would drop dramatically - There's no way that it is costing them more
    this year than it did to provide the same level of service it did last
    eyar. If it is, their entire operations management team should be

    Matthew Poole Auckland, New Zealand
    "Veni, vidi, velcro...
    I came, I saw, I stuck around"

    My real e-mail is mattATp00leDOTnet
    Matthew Poole, Dec 29, 2003
  8. Carl Elphick

    madknoxie Guest

    You don't believe that, do you? If we couldn't afford to call people a
    couple of things would happen. Firstly, Vodafone would be making
    fantastic money because people would just use their cellphones instead.
    And secondly, Telecom would be making far less profit if no one was
    using their lines - something I don't think they are overly keen on.
    madknoxie, Dec 29, 2003
  9. Ah, but likewise a lower cost high speed Internet connection would also see
    increased user numbers and income from subscription fees. Still, they insist
    on charging far too much for data rather than trying to improve their
    customer base by actually making it affordable.

    The Other Guy
    The Other Guy, Dec 29, 2003
  10. Carl Elphick

    T.N.O. Guest

    But if you make the same money by charging 100 people $100 compared with
    charging 1000 people $10(and having the bonus of having your network
    under utilised and available for resale to other potential service
    providers), and my bonus was paid out on profits, not good will, I know
    which I'd choose.
    T.N.O., Dec 29, 2003
  11. The kiwi share agreement has allowed telecom to increase line rentals in
    line with inflation since it was implemented.

    Telecom has increased its line rentals by the maximum rate allowed every
    year since - and beyond that, by increasing the charges associated with
    ancilliary services well beyond the rate of inflation.

    Check what you were paying for wiring mantenance in 1990 vs what you're
    paying for wiring maintenance in 2003

    The worst part is that these extra charges are mostly option, yet telecom
    make sit very difficult to opt out of them - and if you do, they're likely
    to add it back in anyway - with the only warning you get being that it's
    reappeared on your phone bill.

    I pick out Wiring Maintenance because it's a rort - it's supposed to be an
    insurance policy for home wiring past the demarcation point, however they
    will attempt to charge you for any work past that point - or force you to
    use contractors who are not bound by the contract and will bill you
    Uncle StoatWarbler, Dec 29, 2003
  12. Carl Elphick

    al Guest

    How true!
    al, Dec 29, 2003
  13. I pick out Wiring Maintenance because it's a rort - it's supposed to be an
    When you have overground wiring the demarc is the master socket. I only have one
    socket and they still tried to bill me for coming out and swapping it for a 2
    wire socket when I was having line issues. Swapping the socket didnt do anything
    (as you would expect) and it wasnt solved till they fixed a junction on the street.

    Took several phone calls to get that one sorted out..
    Richard Malcolm-Smith, Dec 29, 2003
  14. Thank god that the kiwi share agreeement is there, otherwise many
    And if dialup wasnt to cheap to use, then more people would have to go on
    broadband connections meaning there would be more incentive to build better

    Face it, cheap dialup is holding back people moving to good connections. If they
    had suceeded in making 0867 chargable then there would be a lot more people
    getting ADSL, Cable and wireless connections meaning more customers for those
    providing alternate networks.

    If I was telecom I would just run all voice phone lines via some form of IP
    network that means that you could best get 14,400, all they have to offer under
    the kiwishare.
    Richard Malcolm-Smith, Dec 29, 2003
  15. Carl Elphick

    T.N.O. Guest

    heh, were you listening into my conversation with a friend last night...
    thats exactly what I said, except we were talking about nationwide phone
    noise introduction to drop connections to 14.4 or worse... although
    then(potentially) lack of bandwidth could become an issue.
    T.N.O., Dec 29, 2003
  16. Carl Elphick

    DUser Guest

    No its not.
    The dialup they have is adequate for their needs.
    Web pages and email work just fine on dialup, and most people just buy CDs
    because downloading is piracy.
    They have no need to download software because their perception is that it
    is full of viruses and they can't take it back to the store.
    Higher speed internet access is a low priority
    DUser, Dec 29, 2003
  17. Carl Elphick

    Lennier Guest


    Look at every instance of deregulation.

    In all instances of deregulation and privatisation, the only exception
    being the protection afforded by the Kiwishare, the actual cost to
    ordinary persons has gone up considerably in real terms.

    If the Government of the day had not insisted on the Kiwishare then most
    likely there would be more instances of people not having a telephone than
    there are.

    You see... Not everyone in NZ can afford to have a landline AND a
    cellphone AND ASDL AND own a flash car AND a large house in Remurera AND
    wear bespoke suits.

    Lennier, Dec 29, 2003
  18. Carl Elphick

    Lennier Guest


    Broadband is prohibitively expensive in NZ.

    Most NZers with an Internet connection only want the Internet connection
    in order to read email and to surf the WWW.

    For them Broadband is a complete waste of money at it's present price

    Lennier, Dec 29, 2003
  19. Carl Elphick

    madknoxie Guest

    Hahaha, the Govt is making sh*tloads more money from Telecom now than
    when they owned it. Telecom actually turns a profit now, and what does
    that mean? Millions and millions of dollars in taxation.

    Actually, looking at this instance of deregulation, its far cheaper for
    me now to ring people in Aussie, or any other country for that matter. I
    guess that doesn't count though...

    Look at the airwaves, I now get to choose from a number of commercial
    and non-commercial radio stations all catering for a different tastes.

    I disagree that the cost goes up in real terms, I just think different
    people are paying for it. When the Govt makes losses with its SOEs, we
    all pay for it. When they are privatised, the user pays. Whats wrong
    with that?
    madknoxie, Dec 30, 2003
  20. Carl Elphick

    madknoxie Guest

    I agree, but we are talking about phone calls which more or less have
    been around for generations. Broadband is still relatively new and these
    'geniouses' at Telecom still don't understand it yet. There is hope, but
    by my sig you can see how cynical I am about it.
    madknoxie, Dec 30, 2003
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