Still Confused About Fibre

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by Jim, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. Jim

    Jim Guest

    You're very dismissive of whom you call 'hams'.
    Why should they put up with their space being
    invaded by the effects of those who are too inept
    to wire a network or install a wireless system?

    The radio amateurs have a prior claim to the
    spectrum after all!
    Jim, Jul 25, 2014
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  2. Jim

    Martin Brown Guest

    No there wasn't. There were a couple of extremely vociferous anti CLP
    nutters whose "evidence" such as it was consisted of YouTube clips.
    And you should treat it with the appropriate very large sack of salt.

    I would advise anyone to take a look at the website you mention and
    compare it to the one wanting to ban the lethal dihydrogen monoxide.

    If they still believe in ban-plt then that is up to them
    Basically they are mainly fringe tin foil hatted nutters.

    Martin Brown
    Martin Brown, Jul 25, 2014
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  3. Jim

    Roger Mills Guest

    Assuming there's a decent cable running between current master and
    extension positions, they'll just use that to extend the incoming pair
    to the current extension position, and move the master socket there.

    As long as the intermediate cable has got two or more pairs, one pair
    can be used - if desired - to carry the filtered phone signal back to
    the original master position, where an extension socket can be installed.
    Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
    Roger Mills, Jul 25, 2014
  4. Jim

    Roger Mills Guest

    Three conductors are rarely needed these days, because most modern
    phones can generate their own ring signal from just 2 wires. The third
    conductor is very undesirable anyway, because it's unbalanced and acts
    as an aerial to pick up interference. If you've got any phones that *do*
    need the third wire, simply plug an ADSL filter into their socket and
    plug the phone into the filter. The filter will generate the ring signal.
    Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
    Roger Mills, Jul 25, 2014
  5. Jim

    Graham J Guest

    Jim wrote:
    The filtered faceplate has a connector for the unfiltered signal. For
    the old ADSL filters and the new VDSL filters this connector will accept
    a RJ45 plug. Many here have doubted this fact, indeed I did so myself
    until I actually tried it.

    Where an OR engineer has to site an ADSL router or a VDSL modem at some
    distance from the master socket, and for whatever reason does not want
    to move said master socket, he (I've never known OR employ ladies for
    this function; perhaps we would be better served if they did) will make
    up an extension cable with an RJ45 plug on one end and a wall-mounted
    RJ45 socket on the other. So the location of the modem/router is
    effectively fixed, since he will staple the cable in place and fix the
    socket. He will probably use Cat5 cable although in the past I have
    seen this done with 3-pair (probably Cat-3) cable.

    There is an element of non-standardisation about this. Ordinarily RJ45
    connectors are described as 8p8c, that is 8 positions with 8 contacts.
    Following the same logic, RJ11 is 4p4c. The RJ11 aligns with the centre
    of the RJ45, that is with contacts 3,4,5,6.

    The unfiltered output of the faceplate filter can be descibed as 8p4c.
    In reality it is only 8p in that the aperture is the correct size
    (width) for the RJ45 plug. Not only are there no contacts in positions
    1,2 and 7,8 but there are not even any plastic guides that would in a
    more normal socket carry the metal contacts.

    On an RJ11 plug there are shoulders of insulating material, outside the
    lines of contacts 1 and 4. If you plug an RJ11 into a standard RJ45
    socket these shoulders will interfere with the contacts for pins 1,2 and
    7,8. This might do permanent damage to the socket.

    However the unfiltered output of the faceplate filter has nothing where
    the shoulders of an RJ11 plug are placed, so there is nothing to damage.

    The tidiest way to avoid any problem is to make a cable with RJ11 at one
    end, and RJ45 at the other. This could be done by cutting off the RJ11
    plug from one end of the cable supplied with the modem/router and
    fitting an RJ45 in its place. The 4 wires of this cable must connect
    into contacts 3,4,5,6 of the RJ45 plug.
    Graham J, Jul 25, 2014
  6. Jim

    Kraftee Guest

    It the furthest they are supposed to run, attached of course not left laying
    around for anybody to trip over.

    Oh by the way, why is everybody forgetting the IDC on the filter? This
    removes the problem of having to squeeze the incorrectly supplied cable
    (round 2 pair) into the incorrectly sized RJ11 plugs (suited more for the
    flat multicore).

    It's BTs buying power, they can't even buy the correct parts for the job
    they just buy the cheapest.

    Forget about the RJ11/RJ45 plug at the filter head, just use the IDC it is a
    far more sturdy and elegant solution.
    Kraftee, Jul 25, 2014
  7. Jim

    Kraftee Guest

    No, well not legally or contractually as it will destroy any demarcation
    point between internal network (not maintained by OP) and external network
    (maintained by OP).
    Kraftee, Jul 25, 2014
  8. That would be my recommendation. VDSL has frequencies up to 12MHz,
    which is shortwave, so the less convoluted the cabling inside the
    house and the fewer joins the better you would expect it to work. My
    master socket is just near the front door where the cable enters the
    house, and the cable connecting it to the modem is about 2 metres.

    Roderick Stewart, Jul 25, 2014
  9. Why is it their space? Isn't it everybody's space? If a piece of
    technology provides benefits for many and inconveniences a few, how
    would you expect a democratic society to deal with the matter?

    Roderick Stewart, Jul 25, 2014
  10. Jim

    Andy Burns Guest

    They run a multipair cable (cat5?) from the existing master to where you
    want the new master, fit the VDSL interstitial and faceplates there, and
    run an extension back to to the original location in one of the other
    pairs ...
    Andy Burns, Jul 25, 2014
  11. Jim

    Andy Burns Guest

    Indeed, I have one of the clarity ADSL plates with unfiltered as well as
    filtered extension capability, made by Pressac same as the BT ADSL plate
    I believe, but with a different PCB on the back - not needed to alter
    any VDSL wiring yet and not likely to get it myself for years
    Andy Burns, Jul 25, 2014
  12. Jim

    Graham. Guest

    Well said Jim.
    And I am also of the generation that doesn't use the "H" word, that
    was reserved for the Yanks and Tony Hancock.
    Graham., Jul 26, 2014
  13. Apparently a standard has been defined but it still allows these devices
    to generate up to 10000 times more interference than was allowed before
    some idiot invented these devices :-(
    Brian Gregory, Jul 26, 2014
  14. Jim

    Davey Guest

    In the previous discussions, there were references to a (BBC?) study of
    over 200 reported cases of interference, the vast majority of which were
    'settled'. The problem was, that there was no indication of how they
    were settled; were they deemed to be incorrectly identified, and so
    eliminated from the count; or were they real, but eliminated by
    switching off something; or something else entirely? Without that
    knowledge, there was nothing of any use to be derived from the report.
    Davey, Jul 26, 2014
  15. Jim

    Roger Mills Guest

    Well, it's what I've got - installed by BT.

    It dates back to when I had Home Highway installed. They ran a 3-pair
    cable from the original master position to the place where I wanted the
    HH box. One and a half pairs of that went back to the original master
    position to connect up with the existing extension wiring.

    When HH was replaced by ADSL, the same arrangement was carried forward,
    with the new NTE5 replacing the HH box.
    Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
    Roger Mills, Jul 26, 2014
  16. Jim

    Brian Mc Guest

    : > original master position, where an extension socket can be installed.

    : No, well not legally or contractually as it will destroy any demarcation
    : point between internal network (not maintained by OP) and external network
    : (maintained by OP).

    Welll a genuine OpenReach engineer had NO difficulty doing it for me!

    The incoming phone cable is firmly crimped onto the extension pair so there
    IS demarcation!
    Brian Mc, Jul 26, 2014
  17. Yes it's all rather vague.

    Actually this is the link I meant to post:
    Brian Gregory, Jul 26, 2014
  18. Jim

    Brian Mc Guest

    : >
    : >I had an OpenReach engineer for my Fibre installation back in March.

    : I understood they're not supposed to do that.

    Why ever not? My incoming cable phone is now crimped firmly through to the
    extension (as was! - now the master socket - the old master is no longer
    in use) so there is no real problem.My OpenReach engineer certainly did
    not seem to think it was anything out of the ordinary!
    Brian Mc, Jul 26, 2014
  19. Jim

    Roger Mills Guest

    In my case, jelly crimps are used behind the socket at the old master
    position - and the incoming pair is carried up to the new master
    position. I assume that the new master is now the demarcation point.

    The fact that my extension wiring uses a pair in BT's extension cable
    is neither here nor there!
    Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
    Roger Mills, Jul 26, 2014
  20. Jim

    Kraftee Guest

    Ok, how will you break it down to test whether the fault is on your network
    or Openreachs'?

    Remembering of course the Openreach do not maintain any wiring inside the
    Kraftee, Jul 26, 2014
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