Still Confused About Fibre

Discussion in 'Broadband' started by Jim, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. Jim

    Jim Guest

    I'm still confused about where the bits of a fibre
    installation go.

    My BT socket is in the hall. My router upstairs.

    Zen's blurb implies that the modem installed
    by Open Reach may be located up to 30 metres
    from the BT socket via a 'data cable' supplied
    by O.R.

    I had understood that the the 'VDSL modem' had
    to be installed near to the BT socket and the 1s
    and 0s it outputs went via this data cable to
    my router's WAN port. Which is correct?

    Zen also state that this data cable (whatever
    sort of data it carries) can be left lying around
    for me to route to the computer equipment/modem
    in my own time, which I would prefer. Is this
    also correct? It seems reasonable.
    Jim, Jul 24, 2014
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  2. Jim

    Graham. Guest

    You mean this, under "What must you provide?"

    As it connects the master socket to the modem, it is clearly the
    unfiltered phone line carrying the VDSL signal.

    You may prefer to leave the modem near the socket and run CAT5e/CAT6
    to the router.

    Some ISPs have embraced a single box solution, not sure about Zen

    Some VDSL faceplates and VDSL modems use RJ45 rather than RJ11 sockets
    so the supplied lead may turn out to be a long Ethernet patch lead
    Graham., Jul 24, 2014
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  3. The incoming telephone cable is hardwired to the master socket. There
    are two socket connections on it, a standard BT phone connector and a
    data socket. The phone outlet is already filtered so you don't need
    additional filters.

    A pluggable cable goes from the data socket to the VDSL modem which
    Openreach will supply and fit. The shorter the better, but if they say
    you can have it up to 30 metres away, then you can.

    A standard ethernet cable goes from the VDSL modem to your router. The
    length of this cable can be anything up to the maximum length for
    ethernet, which I can't remember but I've used at least 30 metres with
    no trouble. Those Homeplug or Powerline ethernet adaptors can be used
    here too.

    The two boxes, modem and router, don't need to be physically next to
    each other but they need an ethernet connection between them. Where
    you place them physically is up to you.

    So you have two data cables, BT wallbox to modem, and modem to router,
    and either or both of these cables can be up to 30 metres (possibly
    longer for the second one), which gives you quite a bit of freedom. If
    you do want to use Powerline adaptors, you can only use them on the
    ethernet route, *after* the modem.

    Phone wiring is completely separate, and plugs directly into the BT
    master socket.
    Yes. I'm not sure if the Openreach engineer is obliged to install the
    extension cable, but I expect he'll be glad to leave it to you.

    Roderick Stewart, Jul 24, 2014
  4. Jim

    Andy Burns Guest

    I don't think the 30m refers to them leaving you a long patch cable, but
    is the maximum distance they'll be prepared to relocate the master
    socket by (ISPs can order FTTC with or without this socket relocation
    Andy Burns, Jul 24, 2014
  5. Jim

    Woody Guest

    The usual limit of Ethernet is 100m if not carrying PoE, or
    60m if it is.
    Woody, Jul 24, 2014
  6. It's actually the former but in practice you'll often find the latter
    ends up getting done.

    Be wary if it's a contractor that's sent to do the install. I've seen a
    fair few examples where they seem completely oblivious to the whole
    extension kit thing.
    Plusnet Support Team, Jul 25, 2014
  7. Jim

    Mike Civil Guest

    Another option is to use powerline adapters to link the modem and
    router. Can be dependant on mains wiring topology but certainly works
    here (currently linking an HG612 and an RT-N66U).
    Mike Civil, Jul 25, 2014
  8. Jim

    John Weston Guest

    ....and contractors who make demands for the installation that
    aren't strictly required, according to the Openreach or sound
    engineering standards, such as the "best" placement for the
    VDSL modem and its cabling and refuse to install the OpenReach
    faceplate in place of a previously used third-party ADSL one.
    It works fine, though, but I'll bet if there is a problem, it
    will be a point of blame and excuse for charges being raised...

    Make sure your ISP is fully aware of, and answers, all the
    installer's questions, since it is their installation. Any
    answers you provide could result in a future dispute.

    In my installation, a few days later my ISP diagnosed
    "...Service found to be affected by existing network" which
    needed an extended visit from the real Openreach to get it all
    working - the problem was between me and the exchange:
    "...Fault associated with Openreach Proactive Infrastructure
    Event" so it could be unrelated, but...
    John Weston, Jul 25, 2014
  9. Jim

    Brian Mc Guest

    : >my router's WAN port. Which is correct?

    : The incoming telephone cable is hardwired to the master socket. There
    : are two socket connections on it, a standard BT phone connector and a
    : data socket. The phone outlet is already filtered so you don't need
    : additional filters.

    I had an OpenReach engineer for my Fibre installation back in March.

    My old master socket was by the front door and there was no space for the
    new (larger) VDSL master socket. Also I had no power anywhere near there.

    My engineer was happy to crimp the incoming phone line onto a cable pair
    leading directly to an extension socket - and then to make this extension
    socket into the new master socket. As extension wiring will be - at least
    - two pairs (4 wires) other extensions can still be wired in downstream of
    the new master socket.

    It gave me exanctly the solution I wanted and is worth asking about!
    Brian Mc, Jul 25, 2014
  10. Jim

    Davey Guest

    Be aware of a LOT of opposition to the use of these devices, due to the
    fact that they turn your house wiring into a large RF radiator.
    Check out the thread: 'Wifi Extender to replace Powerline'
    in this NG, and there was at least one more robust discussion somewhere
    Davey, Jul 25, 2014
  11. Jim

    Martin Brown Guest

    There isn't all that much opposition to them - there are a handful of
    opponents mostly radio hams and the usual tin foil hat brigade claiming
    that "the sky is falling" and "polluting our precious bodily fluids".
    (shades of General Jack D. Ripper)

    Up to you whether or not you take them seriously or not. I couldn't
    detect any significant problem off mine even at point blank range.

    I prefer hard wired connections though for faster reliable links. YMMV

    Martin Brown
    Martin Brown, Jul 25, 2014
  12. Jim

    Graham. Guest

    Ah, the old proactive infrastructure event ploy.
    Graham., Jul 25, 2014
  13. Jim

    Davey Guest

    If you followed the arguments on the two or three Newgroups where they
    were well discussed, there was a strong consensus about their evilness.
    I have no agenda either way; if my specific Wifi connection fails, then
    I can use them as a fallback. And I live in a village, with no ham
    operators in close proximity.
    The 'ban-plt' website does indeed read as though it is put together by
    rejects from UKIP for being too radical.
    Davey, Jul 25, 2014
  14. Jim

    Jim Guest


    Today it transpires, according to Zen's tech
    support, that either the modem can go next to the
    BT faceplate, or the 'data cable' can go from the
    faceplate to the VDSL modem somewhere else.
    Or if you wish you can have the modem output,
    a digital signal, on the data cable. So they say.
    I'm wondering if the data cable provided by OR has
    non-standard connectors and so be intended to carry
    the unfiltered line. Presumably the modem's output
    will acceot a standard CAT5/6 connector (?)
    They don't.
    Jim, Jul 25, 2014
  15. Jim

    Jim Guest

    I think I'd prefer a short connection on the
    input to the VDSL modem and the longer one between
    the modem and the router.
    ... you won't find anything to do with poweline
    in my house ...

    Clearer now. I'll opt for the modem-router
    data on the long cable.
    Jim, Jul 25, 2014
  16. Jim

    Jim Guest

    I don't see how they could relocate the master
    socket unless they'd agree to put the modem on an
    existing telephone extension (very unlikely).
    Jim, Jul 25, 2014
  17. Jim

    Jim Guest

    More than adequate for me,
    Jim, Jul 25, 2014
  18. Jim

    Jim Guest

    No way! I have a low-noise HF environment;
    I intend to keep it that way.
    Jim, Jul 25, 2014
  19. Jim

    Jim Guest

    I understood they're not supposed to do that.

    My present faceplate was provided by BT and
    my extensions use three conductors (presumably
    the ringer isn't implemented).
    Jim, Jul 25, 2014
  20. Jim

    Jim Guest

    Very wise. I use a TP-Link extender. Works
    a treat and keeps the HF spectrum clean.
    Jim, Jul 25, 2014
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