Starting your own business

Discussion in 'A+ Certification' started by Tom Miller, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    Oh really?! So WHAT exactly do we use in this "IT field" to distinguish
    professional people? Is a college education merely a "joke" ... or is
    it just a "joke" in this particular field of study?

    Sorry, but I truly believe you'd stop seeing your doctor if you found
    out he skipped out on med school and "just took a few certs" to get the
    job. Now, Barry ... why would you do that?! What does a silly "piece of
    paper" have to do with anything after all? ;)
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
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  2. Tom Miller

    smackedass Guest

    It seems as though the only points of this discussion that this TwoBearCatz
    has to offer are:

    If you don't have a college degree AND if you don't advertise in the Yellow
    Pages AND if you don't charge the same half-hourly fee as this person does,
    you're an thick-skulled, riff-raff, Yoda, non big boy, non-professional,
    fly-by-night, unqualified, jerkoff, impostor.

    And everyone is entitled to their opinion. And all that this person has had
    to offer are opinions. He/she could be an eighth grade dropout and be
    typing from a jail cell, for all the rest of us know.

    And when a person had nothing but opinions to offer AND are unwilling to
    divulge who they are, for fear of accountability, or being caught in a lie,
    they are a coward. In my opinion. And looking down at some of this
    person's other posts, whenever he/she meets disagreement, he/she can only
    resort to ridicule. Sad, sad, sad. Inasmuch as I strongly agree with them
    about the problem of software piracy, he/she undermined whatever credibility
    that they might have had, not too far along into that thread.

    The original point that I made in my original post, was, and I copy and
    It pains me to be aware that there are people who work long and hard to gain
    certs like A+, MCSE, etc., who are about to seek work in an extremely
    competetive industry; and when they get there, the political realities of
    corporate culture are the routine and dictum.

    PURELY opinion, and purelely related to the scope of this newsgroup, and
    some of the posts that I have recently seen.

    At this point, I encourage anybody who agrees with the gist (if there is
    any) or any component of TwoBearCatz' statements to please clarify them, in
    a cogent, objective, specific fashion. Because I really am interested in
    hearing about it. I'm not interested in participating in a petty,
    predictable, knee-jerk flame war.

    Thank you.

    Kema Computer Consulting
    Kenneth E. Newton, Proprietor
    P.O. Box 791
    Harwich Port, MA 02646

    aka smackedass
    smackedass, Oct 21, 2006
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  3. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    I wouldn't waste my time talking to the "problem people" in this career
    and put down my name or business to connect myself with the likes of
    YOU! In case you hadn't noticed, I'd like to see your type ELIMINATED
    from this field. As pointed out ... that's already happening as far as
    the new job market is concerned.
    BLAH BLAH BLAH. Now, THAT is your opinion. Oh, and there is another
    thread I created for piracy. It was met with a lot of piracy supporters
    (typical of this NG). Feel free to show your support!
    It pains me for you to even suggest that there is even decent chance
    someone with ONLY certs would or *should* start off well in this field.
    That's piss poor advice on your part. For the millionth time, a
    certification is just that! It's an EXTENSION of your base skill set
    and education. A+ and MCSE are great examples. They are narrowly
    focused certs on specific areas of computer science - PC hardware,
    operating systems (MICROSOFT), networking, and .... in the case of MCSE
    - solitaire.
    Instead of hiding behind a few other blowhards in this group and
    calling me a troll ... why don't you simply TRY this and make yourself
    look as smart as you claim to be!?

    ANSWER THE QUESTION AND QUIT DODGING IT. I haven't dodged a single
    question you've asked.

    I guess I'll have to type it yet again for ya!

    The question is :

    WHY do you think YOU should be allowed to work in this field as either
    an employee or a business owner without so much as a Bachelor's Degree
    in Computer Science? WHAT makes you think you can "write off" an entire
    education you obviously know nothing about by virtue of what you say
    and the fact you don't have it!


    If you actually try to answer, keep the following in mind about the
    ever repeated nonsense I'm sure you'll come up with that repeated ONLY
    by others like yourself.

    - Most IT jobs require the degree today. Nearly ALL "higher" pay or
    skill level IT jobs require it with a plus for a Masters or higher
    - YES, many "PC technician"? type jobs also require it , except for
    "Level 1" type posts. Also, just because the job scrip doesn't say it's
    required .. that doesn't mean they aren't looking for it. Furthermore,
    you'd be surprised just how much the CS program relates to the
    PC/General Hardware/General Software troubleshooting field. It's hard
    to imagine doing all the tasks I do with my business without having any
    of the education background I have ... even though it's been nearly ten
    years and I've been doing mostly software development for that period!
    On top of that, I only have a Bachelor's!

    In short, education in any field is mostly about two components which
    you probably have not heard much about in your narrowly focused
    self-taught cert driven foolery.

    - Breadth of knowledge
    - Specific skills and related knowledge to your particular major
    - A proven accomplishment. Yes, as much as those without degrees hate
    to admit ... it IS a registered educational accomplishment. To this
    day, it's the only one of its kind. Let's face it, very FEW of us will
    ever be "Bill Gates" in this world. For the lion share, it's important
    to have some sort of "BAR" in any profession. Higher education is the
    ONLY reliable way to accomplish this goal. The fields of medicine, law,
    and just about every other respectable PROFESSION agree. Computers and
    IT aren't the same as janitors and fast food worker. Sure, we like to
    joke about it ... but at the end of the day we all know it's a sad
    state of affairs when the former janitor of the building is the new IT
    manager just because he "knew the right guy" inside.
    - Relating back to some of your other drivel ... "I, too,
    wish that there were a BAR exam, ". Realize this would force you out of
    the field right now and make you go back to school. In the case of a
    real "BAR" ... some graduate studies as well. Do you read what you
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
  4. Tom Miller

    MF Guest

    Um, it's coil. "shuffle off this mortal coil."

    Back to school, big guy.

    MF, Oct 21, 2006
  5. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    What an ASTOUNDING "poke" you've made in my arguments for education and
    against undercutting. The wizards in this NG never cease to amaze me.
    Seriously, you should join a debate club. I bet you'd win every time
    and make all the girls laugh! ;)
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
  6. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    Yep, and I just read it again. "very FEW of us will ever be "Bill
    Gates" Sorry, I didn't add "as Bill Gates has NO COLLEGE DEGREE".
    I could imagine you wouldn't hold a BS in anything.
    no Go Noles!
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
  7. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    Yeah thanks for that lazy, dysfunctional WRONG idea. Thanks for
    shipping millions of tech jobs at all levels to INDIA where education
    in IT is not only a requirement, but a virtue! Don't even start with
    the low pay thing. If you are in "IT" or do any research you'll soon
    see that's just nonsense when it comes to IT. Some managers may "think"
    they are saving money but the reality is most Indians make some GOOD
    money in IT - especially the H1B's working here in the US. Also,
    equally QUALIFIED Americans are FAR more efficient and inventive than
    most Indians ... but that tends to be lost in a sea of hajis nowadays.
    There are several large consulting services providers here that ONLY
    work with Indians. Most have many exclusive contracts. The shit is
    locked up now! :(

    Fortunately, your 80's and 90's thinking is being all but abandoned by
    most hiring managers today. The job postings CLEARLY reflect this. If
    you've been in the business for the past 10 years like I have ... you'd
    know this well. Unfortunately, MUCH damage has been done to the field.

    By the way, your man Bill Gates hires more offshore people now than
    ever! Why do you think that is? You think he wants a staff of people
    like you and smackedass here? THINK AGAIN. The reality is American IT
    workers have shot themselves in the foot ... both feet! It was done
    with a gun loaded with arrogance and no credentials. Even after 10
    years in this field, a BSCS, and loads of good experience I have a
    certain degree of blind respect for those with education higher than
    mine (except for MBA's - that's another story). The same goes with
    experience, but not nearly as much as education ... because experience
    is not entirely verifiable. Anyone can say ANYthing and in this field
    and they certainly do a LOT of that on resumes.
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
  8. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    You are correct, because it is totally unnecessary. Why would i spend
    and what do you make and do? how did you get your post? could an
    American get to your post at your company with your current educational
    background and NO experience right now (off the street)? be honest.
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
  9. Tom Miller

    smackedass Guest

    Like I said, this individual may very well be an 8th grade dropout typing
    from a jail cell, for all we know. Anybody can get away with saying or
    doing anything they want to, if they can avoid accountability.

    smackedass, Oct 21, 2006
  10. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    Are you insane!? Accountability for WHAT?! Look, don't take you deep
    seated feelings of inadequacy out on me and this thread! You uneducated
    types sure can be some bad apples and crazy loose cannons! LOL.
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
  11. Tom Miller

    Tom Miller Guest

    Another way to know your not charging enough is when your business reaches
    the point where you have more work than you have time to do it. Raising
    your rate(s) should reduce the amount of work and gain you more money in the

    Tom Miller, Oct 21, 2006
  12. Tom Miller

    smackedass Guest

    Thank you Tom. That much is part of my business plan, and I was going to
    mention that, but then I allowed myself to get sucked into trolldom. I've
    pulled myself out of that ditch.

    Yes, as I'd observe the trends and rules of capitalism, when I reached a
    point when I was billing out 30 hrs. per week consistently, I was going to
    again raise my rates.

    BTW, I haven't gotten to read your articles, but thank you very much for
    sending them along, they look very interesting.

    smackedass, Oct 21, 2006
  13. Tom Miller

    Tom Miller Guest

    Dear TwoBearCatz,
    Surely you have something better to do than upset your digestion. Go take
    an anti-acid and stop reading this thread! Its bad for your blood

    Tom Miller, Oct 21, 2006
  14. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    LOL! True True. However, once I get going on the old Computer Science
    and undercutting rant it's really hard to stop! If I knew this field
    was over 50% unqualified arrogant blowhards I would have stepped into a
    different major in college. Oh well.. *when* I build up enough savings
    I intend to try for law school. Then, hopefully someday these rants
    will be a thing of the past!
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
  15. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    THINK. That IS the point. It's a "chicken and egg" situation
    reminiscent of ad for a local community college I saw on TV the other
    day. You can't get EXPERIENCE without the job, you can't get the JOB
    without the EDUCATION. Again, you are kicking in the dysfunctional "old
    school IT" where people of dubious background with little or no higher
    education DID get hired. Of course, this still goes on today ... but
    seems to be drying up in most places.
    This is a VERY slippery slope but at least you said "non-programming".
    Perhaps you can understand my frustration with the fact my focus has
    been primarily in software development (yes riddled with uneducated
    overpaid idiots!). For example, when you work with "Microsoft
    Certified" uneducated "programmers" ... guess what their answer to
    every programming task is?! VISUAL BASIC! LOL. They even tried patching
    VB with web apps before Visual Studio was released and became "better"
    followed by .NET. Some of these "apps" always find a way of hanging
    around. They are like booby traps for everyone because most "old
    school" uneducated VB types might as well be Italian too because they
    only like spaghetti code.
    ....and even if you were part of my family I would be a total hypocrite
    to say "that's cool" because it's NOT. Face it. You bring this field
    down to a level beneath plumbers and electricians with a story like
    that. Even THEY have higher bars of entry than "luck" and "hard work".
    I don't know what part of PRO FES SION you people don't understand
    1. a vocation requiring knowledge of some department of learning or
    science: the profession of teaching. Compare learned profession.
    Just remember, when your house is built of cards it comes crashing down
    pretty easy with the slightest puff of wind. When/if it blows down
    you'll only have your "experience" to go on without an education. You
    run into a hiring manager like me ... you know what my answer will be.
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
  16. God damn right. I've got a PhD, and I get so f'ing angry when I see all these
    uppity kids with their little old degrees thinking they can call themselves
    professionals! What a joke! Running a computer repair business with only a BSc?
    Ha!! But boy, do they love to run around telling everyone how clever they are.
    And jealous? You've never seen anything like it. When I worked on the 'bins,
    collecting garbage it was just the same. Thinking they knew how to empty into a
    truck like we real pro's could. You should've seen 'em! Makes tears roll down
    my cheeks with laughter just thinking about it. Try telling them though? They'd
    get so shitty. Long tirades of self-serving bullshit, showing nothing but their
    ignorance, but, hey, it gave the rest of us a laugh. Just like this TwoBearCatz
    moron. Who's he trying to kid, pretending he can repair 'puters with his puny
    little degree? I bet he's got a couple of ol' PhDs working for him that do the
    real work. I mean, he tried it in the programming business, and failed pretty
    spectacularly, didn't he? Heh, Heh. Oh hell, there I go again, just gotta wipe
    them tears away, give me a minute, folks. Now, where was I? Oh, yeah. I mean,
    take the other day, I had this call out to this old lady who wanted me to
    install Windows XP for her. Ha! Try and do that with your little old BSc!!!!!
    'Course, being a PhD an'all, I make sure I have it printed on all my business
    cards - in fact, to be fair to the customer, I include all my qualifications,
    even the one from the Psych people saying I'm certifiably sane. Now that's a
    good one that is; how many you guys and good ladies got one of those? Not many
    I'd take a good guess. So I's the only one here who can prove he's sane! Get
    over that one mister jealous guy! 'Course, things got a bit tough in the
    garbage business, and they had to lay off all us PhD-types. When they
    introduced them wheely-bin things, well I guess we just couldn't cut it any
    longer. Had to leave it to the Professors. Sad to see it go, of course, but I'm
    not bitter, I look back at the old team now, and I'm kinda proud I was there at
    the beginning, know what I mean? I give the Prof's a wave, when I see 'em
    driving by - can't say I don't get that old twitch in the shoulder though! Ah
    well, makes me walk taller for a ways, 'till I falls over, but that's another
    story. Anyways, guess I'm taking up too much o' your time here, with my little
    ramblings. Gotta go, anyway, things to do, people to see, 'puters to repair,
    you know how it goes. Oh, sorry TwoBearCatz, you don't do you, you have to get
    the others to do it for you. Oh well, see Ya.
    Fred the Ferret, Oct 21, 2006
  17. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    "BSc"? BS CS. You *might* want to finish that GED *before* you try to
    make a "funny" post about higher education. Just a suggestion.
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
  18. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    "Try and do that with your little old BSc!!!!! "

    A motorcycle is it? LOL.
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
  19. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    You READ about as good as you RANT. The electricians make more than you
    do because they are better than you. They don't allow someone to become
    an electrician with some "luck" and "hard work". It takes a little more
    than that.

    "I got my job because I can do the job...end of story."

    I think others would beg to differ with that OPINION. That must be the
    dumbest remark you've made all day!
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
  20. Tom Miller

    smackedass Guest

    Maybe it's time to stop feeding the troll. Trolls can be fed shit and
    dumpster juice, and they'll be happy and healthy.

    smackedass, Oct 21, 2006
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