Starting your own business

Discussion in 'A+ Certification' started by Tom Miller, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. Tom Miller

    Tom Miller Guest

    Smackedass mentioned starting your own business.

    There was an excellent 2 part article several years ago by a guy who started
    his own pc support/repair business. He was quite detailed. If you can't
    find the articles on Slashdot you can e-mail me. I can send you copys.

    I also like a couple of books. One is "Small Business for Dummys." It is
    in its 2nd Edition. If you have read anything about small business advice
    books you will understand how unusual that is. If your an amatuer
    web-designer there is a good starting a home based web design company book
    by Jim Smith (2nd Edition).

    The US Small Business Adminstration has a number of courses that you can
    take online for free. I especially recommend "Managing the Digital
    Business" if you have a high-speed connection to the internet. It does a
    lot of guest lecturers. And the dialup connection isn't sufficient no
    matter what I tried.

    Starting a business on the side can be your way into capitalizing on your
    new skills as an A+. However, you should not try this business if your
    traveling extensively as part of your main (current) job. The kind of
    support a lot of people want is "hands on" (eg. desktop support) rather than
    telephone support.

    Tom Miller, A+, Mcp, Mos, Cna5.1, and lots of Brainbench certs.

    --
     
    Tom Miller, Oct 18, 2006
    #1
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  2. Tom Miller

    smackedass Guest

    For me, the main reason why I feel that I MUST work for myself, is my
    experiences working in the corporate world. I absolutely LOATHE politics,
    and it often felt like IT was at the epicenter of the political element. It
    pains me to be aware that there are people who work long and hard to gain
    certs like A+, MCSE, etc., who are about to seek work in an extremely
    competetive industry; and when they get there, the political realities of
    corporate culture are the routine and dictum. It doesn't really matter what
    you know, or how hard you are willing to work; your efforts are bound by the
    IT department's budget, and by your ability and willingness to know whose
    ass you're supposed to be kissing at any given moment.

    (Gee, I don't sound bitter, do I?)

    If you work for yourself, you develop and breed your relationships with your
    own customers according to your own sensibilities; your success is enabled
    by your own knowledge and ethics, and measured by your own assessment. At
    the end of the day, of course, the bottom line is the bottom line, but it's
    up to you to do it the way that you need to; if you're honest with yourself,
    and reasonably intelligent, you can build a business, from the bottom up.
    When you get a referral from another customer, you know that you're on the
    right track. When you take in a few hundred dollars in a week, you know
    that you're on the right track. When you're baffled by some problem, that
    you research and solve within a matter of hours, or even days, you know
    you're on the right track. The corporate adage of "nothing is good enough"
    does NOT apply. Success WILL happen.

    And, if you've got kids, you can offer them one more life option when
    they're old enough to understand the value of business ownership, if they're
    so inspired.

    Enough of my penny-ante free lance philosophizing,

    smackedass
     
    smackedass, Oct 19, 2006
    #2
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  3. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    As an owner for a few years of a computer service business I wouldn't
    recommend it unless you are a glutton for punishment. The Yellow Pages
    is the ONLY effective way to advertise and it cost a LOT. They push you
    up year after year and then you make a mistake going to a bigger ad
    which just generates more bullshit calls consisting of :

    1) People looking for "free" over the phone tech support
    2) People looking for "cheap" laptop repair. Yes, physically broken
    laptops that they paid less than $1000 for originally.
    3) Sales calls
    4) People looking to "bring their broken computer somewhere to save
    money on a trip charge". Don't you like having to pay over $1000 for
    the ad to get them to call and then God knows what for rent and a nice
    office/storefront and someone to man it so they can bring the computer
    to you and demand a discount? Sorry, doesn't make fiscal sense to me.

    Referral business is way overrated by those that do not run or
    understand this kind of business. In this business your customers
    (generally) are demanding and cheap at the same time. What a combo:)
    This is why they almost ALWAYS use the Yellow Pages. They won't
    remember a flyer they got last week or a radio ad they heard. They WILL
    rifle thru the phonebook calling each ad one by one usually looking for
    the person who will come out "first". They WILL cancel any other
    appointments they've made with abandon (hint: require cc to book) when
    the "first" guy shows up at their door. Of course, I have many good
    customers ... but they can only pay so much of that $1500/month YP
    bill. One more negative sidenote ... as a computer service business
    owner don't think you can't be ripped off or "shoplifted" so to speak
    (especially if you accept personal checks). Some people in any given
    city just like to rip off small business. Tough fact of life you'll
    have to deal with sooner or later. Anyway, good luck :) and if you do
    try this biz out do yourself (and the rest of us) a favor and don't use
    undercutting as a marketing strategy!
     
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 19, 2006
    #3
  4. Tom Miller

    smackedass Guest

    Hello,

    First of all, I don't use the Yellow Pages. It just costs too damn much,
    and my ad would appear right next to all of my competitors. I get a fair
    amount of work from tear-off ads, referrals, church and school contacts,
    etc. You're right, the cost of a Yellow Page would eat too far into my
    bottom line.
    I have no problem providing free over the phone tech support for an
    established customer, so long as I have time to talk to them. I have done a
    lot of this, and I find that it reinforces loyalty and customer
    satisfaction.
    I tell people that most of the time I can't fix broken laptop hardware. I
    also recommend to them that if they do have to purchase a laptop (which I
    recommend AGAINST, for anyone except a student or business traveller), that
    they examine the options for extended and enhanced warranties, since it's
    probably the manufacturer that will be the only party to perform the work
    correctly.
    Yeah, I've gotten a few, I politely tell them to screw.
    I work out of my home. No overhead, actually the opposite of overhead--a
    tax write off

    and a nice > office/storefront and someone to man it so they can bring the
    computer
    I offer free initial onsite evaluation. Of the dozens, maybe hundreds that
    I have done, only two haven't actually hired me.
    Human nature. It sucks, but is the reality. The way that I look at it, all
    of my customers get a break from me, in one way, shape, form, or another.
    This is usually not lost on them.
    Since I don't use the Yellow Pages, I don't have this problem. Man, you're
    tough.

    when> the "first" guy shows up at their door. Of course, I have many good
    I've had one bounced check. Knock knock.

    Some people in any given
    I've been doing it for about a year and a half. I consider that to be
    beyond "trying it out".

    do yourself (and the rest of us) a favor and don't use
    Ahem...here I have a strong intellectual disagreement. First of all, I
    don't surruptitiously go around, trying to figure out what other techs
    charge. I don't think that many people do do that. Some of them, I happen
    to know. I'd say that my rate ($45 per hour) is, for the record, fair, and
    a bit on the low side. But, most of all, in the self-evident yet
    ever-evolving rules of free-market capitalism, there IS NO SUCH THING as
    undercutting. If a person is selling a service at a low enough price, that
    they can't eek out a living, then they're dying at that end, and won't be
    able to compete because they can't afford to live.

    Cheers,

    smackedass
     
    smackedass, Oct 19, 2006
    #4

  5. Are you doing business stuff @ $45/hr? That *is* a "bit on the low
    side". I can *kinda* see doing work for home users for that, but
    otherwise I think you are seriously under-valueing yourself.

    One of the toughest things I've had to learn is how important it is to
    charge ENOUGH. Businesses can & will pay (much) more than that
    because keeping their stuff running is WORTH that much to them.

    I know you'll feel a little weird at first telling businesses you
    charge $95/hr (almost like you're cheating/overcharging them), but if
    you're not charging what the market will bear, you're not letting
    "free-market capitalism" work for you.

    I know you probably think "Hey, this is easy stuff - how can I charge
    so much?" But it's not REALLY "easy". It just *seems* that way to
    you 'cause you know what you're doing. I configured a LinkSys router
    just yesterday, and the woman watched in amazement. "How do you know
    what all those numbers mean?", "How do you know what to do?".

    If you think about it, the things a Heart Surgeon does are really
    probably "easy" FOR THEM, and they have no trouble taking home at
    least $400,000/year (and no, I'm not comparing the importance of
    replacing a Hard Drive with the importance of replacing a heart).

    But what does a plumber charge? A Mobile DJ? A lawyer? Anybody who
    runs their own business?

    Anyway, enough preaching. I guess the bottom line is: don't be afraid
    to charge what the market will bear - don't make "I'm cheaper than the
    other guys" your selling point. You don't wanna be at the low end of
    the range that is charged in your area - you want people to think,
    "Hey, he's a little pricey, but he's worth it."

    And how do you know what "the market will bear"? A guy I know who's
    run his own (non-computer) business for 20 years once told me his rule
    of thumb: "If nobody complains that you charge too much, you're not
    charging enough"

    Just my thoughts.

    M
     
    mhaase-at-springmind.com, Oct 20, 2006
    #5
  6. Smackedass -

    BTW, I noticed you're using Val-pak advertising (forgive me if I've
    got the wrong guy).

    I had been giving thought to trying it...how's that working?

    M
     
    mhaase-at-springmind.com, Oct 20, 2006
    #6
  7. Tom Miller

    smackedass Guest

    It just went out 2 days ago. So far, I've gotten 1 call. Will keep you
    apprised...

    sa
     
    smackedass, Oct 20, 2006
    #7
  8. Tom Miller

    smackedass Guest

    Hello mhaase,
    All of your points (and I haven't here included all of them) are very well
    taken. I'm not even a college graduate (not even an Associates Degree), but
    I understand the principle of "market penetration", and this is the
    principle that I pursue.

    I know that some people (PC techs, and people, and companies, who are not PC
    technical) draw a distinction between home users and businesses. Where I
    live, and work (SE Massachusetts), many of my customers are both. I have
    many customers who work, and surf, and let their kids play video games, on
    the same machine. Of course, I advise against it, but that's what it is.

    Even if that weren't the case, I probably wouldn't charge businesses more
    than home users. I'm just not that cutthroat a person. Next time I raise
    my rates (yes there will be a next time!), rates will be raised across the
    board.

    Also, I'd long said to myself that if I ever had my own business, I'd only
    like to treat my customers the way that I'd like to be treated. Today, the
    Golden Rule is anachronistic, at best, but I've got my own guns to stick
    to...I'm very much a "street dude", every day I'm in the post office, the
    supermarket, the school, the bank, et al. I'm very much in tune with
    people's sensibilities, and with the economic realities of my neighborhood.
    Where I live, business is (generally) seasonal, most people know one
    another, reputations are quickly acclimated and disseminated...there are
    lots of retirees, mostly academic types, and many day to day blue collar
    service people. Not many professionals, as would be found in a
    city...before I did this I was involved in food service, and I remember a
    chef once telling me, "Don't shit where you sleep".

    smackedass
     
    smackedass, Oct 20, 2006
    #8
  9. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    First, this thread is confusing from the start. I replied because it
    appeared you were contemplating starting a computer service business ..
    not already running one?!

    Next, I really hate uneducated types like you that undercut everyone in
    this field. You are right, you don't advertise like the big boys
    because you can't run with them. It's really ALL too bad this field
    doesn't have even one "BAR" exam because it would knock riff raff like
    yourself right out of the ballpark. It's because of you that all of us
    EDUCATED, EXPERIENCED pros have to hear stories about the "guy that
    used to be down the street" who "used to charge 50 bucks to fix the
    PC". What's amusing to the point of absurdity is that the "guy down the
    street" rarely fixed anything completely, correct, and/or with legal
    software. Also, the "guy down the street" is always out of business by
    the time they call us. Gee, I wonder why?! 45/hour in Taxachusetts?!
    RIDICULOUS. You know something? Even most of the one liners here charge
    a $100 min and COL is MUCH lower than where you are at.

    Funny you also mention the corporate world while lacking a college
    degree. In nearly 10 years of software development in the corporate
    world I found the dirtiest politics to almost always be DIRECTLY
    related to the average education level on the teams. When a one or more
    lack a college degree they FEAR losing their precious job to someone
    who actually deserved it. This creates nasty politics. Anyone who has
    been there knows exactly what I'm talking about. In fact, I remember my
    first job out of college back in the mid 90's. A contractor from
    BoozAllen? told me not to ever even mention education around fellow
    consultant ... since most didn't even have a BS at the time. Thankfully
    that has changed, but not before the IT field turned upside down and a
    whole [email protected]@#$%$ load of jobs went to India because average American
    programmers were uneducated buffoons with really bad attitudes.

    In short, I recant my "Good Luck" to you!
     
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 20, 2006
    #9
  10. Tom Miller

    smackedass Guest

    Confused, indeed, you are, sir or madam. Entertaining, albeit...certainly,
    I don't have the market cornered on the PC service market OR absurdity.
    Full of complaints are you, with not much to say constructive.

    You chose to vacate a career in the all-too-precious corporate world, to
    start your own PC tech company. You seem to hate it, I don't
    understand...you can always return to the world of the make-believe, sitting
    down for meetings at a big table with a bunch of pretentious assholes,
    speaking in some strange code, going through silly motions while deciding
    which inevitables may no longer be postponed...

    Just by virtue of the word that you continue to use the word "undercut"
    demonstrates your baffling contempt for capitalism. What is a business
    person supposed to do, call up every potential competitor, pretending to be
    a customer, asking how much they charge? And THEN set my rates?

    Wait a second, let me get up from the floor...there was the time that a (now
    former) customer of the "biggest name" in town, even advertises in the
    Yellow Pages, who charges $95 per hour, after hearing (read: a REFERRAL) of
    my superior know-how, service, and diligence, contacted me. Said contractor
    charged this person "sixteen arms and seventeen legs" (I don't know how
    much, exactly) to fix some problems she had been having. Only, the problems
    weren't fixed. She called, on several occasions, to see what reparations
    the "reputable" tech company might provide. Said contractor never returned
    her calls. Luckily, the customer is an attorney; she wrote and sent a
    tersely worded letter, indicating that she needed things be made right.
    Only then did said contractor return her fee, along with a letter stating
    that she needn't contact said contractor for future concerns. Two days
    later, courtesy of yours truly, the customer had her computer up and
    running, every problem solved, for probably half the price of the
    "reputable" technician. On several occasions, she has re-hired me, and
    recommended me to others.

    That's my chestnut story, I have many similar, if not as poignant...I, too,
    wish that there were a BAR exam, the term "riff raff" is subjective and
    trite, and exists solely in the mind of the jealous and fanciful...

    Now, having swept the dust out of the corners, into the center of the
    floor...yes, Massachusetts is certainly unfairly burdened by the constraints
    of civil bureaucracy...but I used to live in New Jersey, and property taxes
    alone were many times higher than what they are here. But, here there are
    far fewer racists and homophobes, the people and environment have more
    interesting character, and the only people that are singled out for
    nickel-and-diming are the tourists. Home, sweet, home.

    Thank you for your well-wishes, but please understand that one ought be
    careful with their inferences ("legal software"), as they may ultimately
    constitute libel.

    Cheers,
    --
    Kema Computer Consulting
    Kenneth E. Newton, Proprietor
    P.O. Box 791
    Harwich Port, MA 02646
     
    smackedass, Oct 20, 2006
    #10
  11. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    You shouldn't use all these 5 dollar words your education level can't
    afford. It makes your posts barely readable.
     
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 20, 2006
    #11
  12. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    LOL. Yoda has arrived and he needs English 101.
     
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 20, 2006
    #12
  13. Tom Miller

    smackedass Guest

    Sigh...I'm riff-raff, I'm a Yoda (huh?), I'm not a big boy, my grammar is
    not perfect, I use too many $5 words, and my posts aren't readable. You
    can't see from where you are, but my toenails need clipping, and you can't
    smell from where you are, but my breath is bad. Thank God for Binaca, or I
    might not be getting all of this referral business...

    Yes, all of these things may be true. What I've yet to hear from you,
    however:

    1) an explicit definition of "undercutting", and why it's bad. As I've
    stated, I think there's no such thing as "undercutting", anyway.

    2) why it's not good to treat a customer like you'd like to be treated
    yourself, and

    3) why you're doing something that you hate, and that apparently, you're
    having a lot of trouble making any money at.

    Another thing I forgot to mention is that when I'm talking to a customer, I
    tell them that I don't consider other technicians to be my competition, so
    much, as I do the market for new computers. Sometimes, I even bring along a
    copy of Parade magazine (which is the source of many of my $5 words); on the
    last page of each issue, Dell has an ad of their current offering. The new
    boxes are usually between $300 and $400. That way, if I fix someone's old
    box for $180, and they're talking to a friend the next day, and they mention
    that they could have gotten a new computer for a little bit more, I can't be
    accused of obfuscation.


    --
    Kema Computer Consulting
    Kenneth E. Newton, Proprietor
    P.O. Box 791
    Harwich Port, MA 02646
     
    smackedass, Oct 20, 2006
    #13
  14. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    If you were a real professional with a college degree you'd understand
    it's NOT a majority referral business (as I've stated before). True
    professions never are. Why do you think attorneys and doctors dominate
    most YELLOW PAGE listings?! Of COURSE referrals are a component of any
    good business ... but NOT the bread and butter as a fly by night
    undercutting slackey like you make it out to be. You say that because
    you can't AFFORD REAL advertising on what you charge!
    Listen. I (and a few others) have already tried to get it thru your
    rather thick skull. Undercutting is EXACTLY what you do and what you
    are (currently) all about. You have no real investment in this
    PROFESSION. You admit you have no college degree and what some certs?!
    You go out and try to scare up business any way you can so long as it
    doesn't cost too much. Then, you try to keep the business by charging
    roughly half of the going rate of any professional outfit. When people
    dislike you or your work, they'll eventually call a PROFESSIONAL shop
    .... and statistically will stick with that type of business for a long
    time. You can't begin to hire anyone on what you charge and it would be
    rather scary for your clients if you did (hope you can figure out
    why!). Why don't you try this and report back? Charge what I charge for
    2 weeks. $49 per half hour. I charge the same rate for business as
    residential and because I'm a nice guy I usually wind up discounting as
    much as an hour for some customers depending on the circumstance.
    Anyway, it would be fun to see how many of your "great" customers keep
    doing business with you when you are no longer bending over for them.

    I do. In fact I treat them MUCH better than I get treated by most other
    business I deal with in and out of town. What's your point?! Where did
    you come up with that bullshit?!
    Actually, we could and should take this a step further as to WHY people
    like you even THINK they should be in this PROFESSION when you ARE MOST
    CERTAINLY NOT QUALIFIED!!! You don't need more than common sense to
    realize most things in life happen for an identifiable reason. The IT
    field is no exception. In the past 10 years we've seen a HUGE loss for
    all Americans in this field. Argue if you will but it's an undeniable
    fact it's due to jerkoffs like you. "Falling" into a field you
    initially know nothing about. Self teaching, taking certs, etc... but
    never getting a BSCS DEGREE or Masters for that matter. I heard a quote
    the other day that many IT managers today were failing realtors from
    the early 90's. Doesn't surprise me a bit.

    See, when you follow a college degree with EXPERIENCE we call that a
    PROFESSION. We call the people in it, PROFESSIONALS. Attorneys and
    doctors are not in this sad boat since they REJECT people like you. You
    simply WOULD NOT be practicing or working on computers for clients at
    this time IF the requirements were even half of what they are in a
    field like law. If you wanted to, you'd have to do your proverbial
    "homework" and put in your proverbial "dues".

    You don't find attorneys (like I find computer guys) in my town or ANY
    TOWN scooting around town on motor scooters (yes motor scooters) with a
    pack of discs and a $40 rate. A smoke in one hand and some el cheapo
    customers on the other. As a GROUP they've got more sense than that.
    Who would pay $200/hour for an attorney?! Most would rather pay a good
    computer tech more money than they would a slimey attorney. The
    question is WHY and the answer is oh so simple. THAT IS WHAT ATTORNEYS
    COST. Furthermore, if you really know a lot (or even a little) about
    computers and software you know as well as I do that an attorney is not
    generally smarter or having oh so much more difficult work than a
    computer tech or a doctor for that matter. ALL of these things are
    technical and involve acquired SKILLS and KNOWLEDGE which is put into
    EXPERIENCE. The only HUGE difference is the computer field simply
    allows the unqualified - or I should say has historically allowed the
    unqualified. As further proof on this you only have to compare job
    listing for software dev, tech support, etc from today to 10 years
    back. 10 years ago, few required a college degree. Nowadays, almost all
    of them do. Why do you think that is?! (don't even bother answering.
    I'm sure you'll say some bullshit about the computer science degree not
    being around that long. It's been around since the 70's (or earlier?).
    THAT'S LONG A FRICKING NUFF! You were probably toddling around in the
    70's like I was. Go figure!).

    Why did I migrate into this field from software development when I was
    making $100+ an hour on a smooth 8 hour day? That's a whole other
    discussion but as you could imagine it relates directly to what I have
    outlined above and the general decline of the IT field. Also, I did
    this work part time while doing software for about a 2 year period. I
    made a LOT of money (for me) but is was difficult at best balancing two
    jobs. I had to make a choice and believe it or not the mundane PC
    service won over one expiring contract after another. I don't see how
    you would know about this anyway. Seriously, even though I was
    surrounded by uneducated types when I started ... I was surrounded by
    folks with more education and experience than I have as I moved up the
    ladder. Again, the uneducated inexperienced jerks were still there and
    still causing more problems than ever ... but only as a legacy. It's my
    firm belief that the computer field will eventually turn as professions
    such as medicine and law but UNFORTUNATELY that will probably be
    complete in about oh say another 50 years and I'll probably have
    shuffled off this mortal core by then.
     
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
    #14
  15. Tom Miller

    smackedass Guest

    smackedass, Oct 21, 2006
    #15
  16. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    In other words, you've got nothing more to say! Speaking of anger, you
    are 100% correct. I am angry at UNEDUCATED IMPOSTERS in this field. I
    don't think "anger" is the best word though since I've been feeling the
    same way for about 10 years now ... or since I graduated from college
    and was greeted with all you jerkoffs!
     
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
    #16
  17. Tom Miller

    smackedass Guest

    And somehow, lil ole me up here in Massachusetts is raining on your parade
    down in Fla. Go figure.

    From: The thick-skulled, riff-raff, Yoda, non big boy, undercutting,
    non-professional, fly-by-night, unqualified, jerkoff

    aka smackedass

    aka

    Kenneth E. Newton, Proprietor
    Kema Computer Consulting
    P.O. Box 791
    Harwich Port, MA 02646
     
    smackedass, Oct 21, 2006
    #17
  18. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    I guess lack of education always goes hand in hand with illogical
    ramblings?! What/how have you "rained on my parade"? Since it hasn't
    "sunk in" yet ... the point of this tirade is what you are and what you
    represent ... or more importantly what you aren't or don't represent.
    As I've stated, there are still PLENTY of jerkoffs like you floating
    around out there trying to make a buck in a field they have NOT
    properly entered. Two bit hustlers - and I'm not talking about the
    dance which I happen to be pretty damn good at! LOL.
     
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
    #18
  19. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    Yes yes ... on a Friday night here I've read your way too LONG list of
    accomplishments as if ANYONE CARES!!! It is funny how you came out of
    nowhere with all that tripe. Why is it that you uneducated types ALWAYS
    feel the need to overcompensate, overtime, and brag about every little
    thing you've ever done in the field you lack even the most basic
    educational requirements for?! For example, back around '99 I (almost
    singlehandedly) developed an e-commerce and catalog framework for a
    large mountain bike company. I used server side Java (exclusively) and
    this was when Java was in its infancy. The whole thing actually worked
    well and they still use it to this day. but ........... SEE ...........
    THIS IS THE DIFFERENCE between me and a dipshit like you. I don't feel
    the need to fart about anything I've done in this field unless I'm
    asked or otherwise obliged to!

    What you perceive as arrogant, lazy, etc... about the "degreed" people
    is just that - YOUR WARPED PERCEPTION. See, it's warped because you are
    WAY too busy spinning your wheels trying to showboat among all those
    "degreed" people. Trust me, it's mostly lost on them and they are
    probably quite happy when you leave, get fired, etc. After you make an
    INVESTMENT as a PROFESSIONAL in a CAREER ... the rest is just that - A
    CAREER. It's a job. We "degreed" people don't have this burning need to
    PROVE anything while on the job. This is not to say there aren't
    stupid, lazy, or otherwise crummy "degreed" workers. It is to say that
    your perception is completely WRONG.

    " Just like the 100% degreed IT dept. I had to fight with on a weekly
    basis because of all the boners they pulled. They didn't give a crap
    about anyone but themselves."

    Do you realize how damn stupid you sound? Just read that out loud. YEAH
    , the fact they hold a college degree IN the field must have SOMETHING
    to do with your opinion on the "boners" they pulled.

    " Graduated? They gave you a diploma to get your sorry ass off
    their
    campus. At least you are not in my part of the state."

    Even smarter yet. You have some proof on this? LOL.

    You're just mad like just about EVERY uneducated IT worker I've EVER
    had this convo with. I've seen a guys face turn red (literally) when
    this topic comes up. It's the least I can do :) At least I can have
    such conversations on the Internet nowadays without fear of revenge
    from some angry uneducated dimwit on the job. Judging by your sig, you
    are probably also one of those blowhards that equates "military
    experience" with a college degree. Yeah I'm right aren't I? What an
    ahole. I worked with PLENTY of ex-mil. Been there, done that.
     
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
    #19
  20. Tom Miller

    TwoBearCatz Guest

    Oh really?! So WHAT exactly do we use in this "IT field" to distinguish
    professional people? Is a college education merely a "joke" ... or is
    it just a "joke" in this particular field of study?

    Sorry, but I truly believe you'd stop seeing your doctor if you found
    out he skipped out on med school and "just took a few certs" to get the
    job. Now, Barry ... why would you do that?! What does a silly "piece of
    paper" have to do with anything after all? ;)
     
    TwoBearCatz, Oct 21, 2006
    #20
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