Sony, Toshiba join forces for next-generation DVD standard

Discussion in 'DVD Video' started by Radeon350, Apr 21, 2005.

  1. Radeon350

    Radeon350 Guest

    Sony, Toshiba join forces for next-generation DVD standard

    Two groups led by Toshiba Corp. and Sony Corp. that have been at odds
    over the standard for next-generation DVDs have reached an agreement
    and are in the final stages of deciding on a third standard, it has
    been learned.

    The two sides are reportedly aiming to come to an agreement on the new
    high-capacity standard this month. If a single standard is adopted, it
    will avoid incompatibility such as that which occurred between VHS and
    Beta video players and tapes.

    Japanese firms have been aiming to launch a next-generation DVD
    standard at the end of this year. Toshiba Corp. and NEC Corp. have been
    promoting the low-cost HD DVD format. Sony Corp. and Matsushita
    Electronic Industrial Co. (Panasonic), on the other hand, have favored
    the higher-capacity Blu-ray Disc standard. The two standards are
    incompatible, and both sides have been at odds over them for the past
    three years.

    In the entertainment industry, Warner Bros. and Universal have remained
    in the HD DVD camp, while others such as Walt Disney and 20th Century
    Fox have supported Blu-ray. Under such opposition, digital content such
    as movies would be viewable only with the corresponding player, and
    this conflict has threatened to hinder software sales.

    In a bid to reach a compromise, Sony Corp. and Toshiba Corp., which
    have led the two opposing groups, have come together and are reportedly
    in the final stages of reaching an agreement. They are reportedly
    looking to produce a "third standard" that incorporates the benefits of
    both formats. (Mainichi Shimbun, Japan, April 21, 2005)

    http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/20050421p2a00m0bu010000c.html
    _______________________________________________________________________________


    (Unless this is a mistranslation, it appears that THE DEAL has been cut
    ..... and a lot sooner than expected)




    here's another similar report from yesterday:

    ___________________________________________________
    http://www.reuters.com/audi/newsArticle.jhtml?type=technologyNews&storyID=8242617

    Report: Sony, Toshiba Discuss Single DVD Standard
    Wed Apr 20, 2005 04:11 PM ET

    NEW YORK (Reuters) - Sony Corp. (6758.T: Quote, Profile, Research) and
    Toshiba Corp. (6502.T: Quote, Profile, Research) are working on an
    agreement that could come as early as this month to jointly develop a
    new unified standard for next-generation DVDs, The Nihon Keizai Shimbun
    reported in its Thursday online edition.

    The report said Sony and Toshiba stepped up closed-door negotiations
    around February to find a resolution to the standoff between their
    competing products. As the leaders of the two camps supporting rival
    standards, Sony and Toshiba have waged a three-year battle that
    involves nearly 200 companies worldwide.

    After reaching a basic agreement that a unified standard would be
    desirable, they are now looking to develop a hybrid standard that takes
    advantage of each standard's strengths, the Nikkei said.

    Sony is said to have proposed using Blu-ray's disc structure and HD DVD
    software technology. Toshiba has presented the idea of using HD DVD's
    disc structure, which is closer to that of current DVDs, and employing
    Sony's multi-layer data-recording technology, the report said.

    Although the companies have yet to forge a detailed agreement, the
    talks are expected to produce a workable solution since both companies
    are likely to be eager to avoid a repeat of the VHS-Beta videocassette
    war.

    The Nikkei report said Sony and Toshiba have already begun briefing
    Walt Disney Co. (DIS.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and AOL Time Warner
    Inc. (TWX.N: Quote, Profile, Research) , as well as Hollywood movie
    studios, for approval of a unified standard and to pave the way for the
    signing of an official agreement between the rival camps.
    ___________________________________________________
     
    Radeon350, Apr 21, 2005
    #1
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  2. It's Deja-vu all over again.
     
    Matthew L. Martin, Apr 21, 2005
    #2
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  3. Radeon350

    RichA Guest

    Figures these two greedy studios would be supporting Blu-Ray.
    I remember they were the LAST studios on-board with DVD when it
    arrived. They let Warner and MGM, etc, do all the ground work.
    That piece of s--- Michael Eisner may be gone from Disney, but
    his greedy spirit lives on.
    -Rich
     
    RichA, Apr 22, 2005
    #3
  4. Radeon350

    Alpha Guest

  5. Radeon350

    Rod Speed Guest

    Or the original news article just got it wrong. Wota surprise.
     
    Rod Speed, Apr 22, 2005
    #5
  6. Radeon350

    SlimJim Guest

    I'll believe in the unity when I see results. Personally, I think this will
    be decided just like everything else--they both will release their product
    and only one will emerge the winner through stores and studios. Just like
    divix/dvd, HDcable&Directv/voom, vhs/beta, etc. And sadly, just like
    everything else, some will choose the right one others will have an
    expensive coaster or something for target practice. When they come out,
    choose wisely!
     
    SlimJim, Apr 23, 2005
    #6
  7. Radeon350

    Guest Guest

    Or don't choose at all. Wait until the market's direction is clear. It
    isn't as if high def discs will allow you to see something you couldn't
    otherwise see. It's just an improvement in resolution.

    My guess is that Both Sony and Toshiba are well aware that 2 incompatible
    standards will prove to be a disaster. They're going to do everything in
    their power to avoid making this mistake. Also, keep in mind that players
    for Blu-Ray or HD-DVD will also have to play standard DVD and CD. The cost
    of this backwards compatibility will be a major factor in the success (or
    failure) of high def.

    Norm Strong
     
    Guest, Apr 23, 2005
    #7
  8. Radeon350

    RichA Guest

    Of course, it seems like going Blu-Ray will make this cost
    much higher than HD-DVD. Someone has to pay for an completely
    new disc manufacturing technology, HD is close to current DVD
    in configuration, while Blu-Ray is nothing like it.
    -Rich
     
    RichA, Apr 23, 2005
    #8
  9. Which will indeed let you see things you couldn't otherwise see.
    But it could still happen anyway. Think how wars happen, even though
    everybody proclaims "we don't want war".
    Why should the cost of this backwards compatibility be different for
    Blu-Ray versus HD-DVD?
     
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Apr 24, 2005
    #9
  10. Its capacity is falling behind, though.

    Consider that when the first CD-ROMs came out in 1985, typical hard
    drive capacities were 20-40MB, so CDs were *huge*. It wasn't until the
    early 1990s--nearly a decade later--that hard disks of the size of a
    CD-ROM became commonplace.

    Then DVDs came out in 1996, and typical hard drives were equalling their
    capacity by about a year later.

    Now these new Blu-Ray/HD-DVD discs are already only a fraction of the
    size of typical hard drives--and they haven't even come out yet!

    Makes you wonder about optical storage, doesn't it?
     
    Lawrence D¹Oliveiro, Apr 24, 2005
    #10
  11. Radeon350

    Rod Speed Guest

    Doesnt matter a damn compared with picking the format that wont fly.

    What matters is how many DVDs are needed for say TV
    program seasons etc. Its still quite acceptible/practical.
    Irrelevant to what makes sense with DVD format today.
    Nope.
     
    Rod Speed, Apr 24, 2005
    #11
  12. Radeon350

    Black Locust Guest

    For DVD-Rom/PC purposes perhaps, but for movies and tv series(which is
    what DVDs are primarily used for), I think they're still more than
    sufficient. I mean, the capacity of your standard audio CD has long
    since fallen behind todays standards, yet it's still hanging in there
    with no replacement format in sight. Makes you wonder how much life is
    left in the current DVD standard? I think a lot more than 'some' people
    are predicting.
     
    Black Locust, Apr 25, 2005
    #12
  13. Radeon350

    Black Locust Guest

    Could be just a couple months or even possibly a year or so. I honestly
    hope they do delay the launch because I have no interest in them right
    now and all they'll do at this point is add a lot of confusion to the
    already overcrowded DVD market. I don't even have an HDTV yet. And until
    I do, I'll be ignoring these discs...
     
    Black Locust, Apr 25, 2005
    #13
  14. Radeon350

    Steve K. Guest

    There are two. DVD-Audio and SACD. They have been around quite awhile
    now. One of the reasons (among many) why they have not taken off is
    because everyone's attention in on low quality digital downloads that
    have DRM. It's amazing how these record companies are obsessed about
    protecting these low quality files when their higher quality tracks on
    CD's are wide open. Just craziness.
     
    Steve K., Apr 25, 2005
    #14
  15. Radeon350

    Rod Speed Guest

    Yeah, me too. Sure, a single physical disk would be better for say
    TV program seasons and for movie series, but its no big deal really.
    Nope, not with the change to mp3 on the CD.

    And any decent DVD player will play music off DVDs too.
    Yes there is, mp3 and DVD.
    Yeah, while ever movies fit on them, its likely to have a long life.

    Likely at least as long as CDs have had.
     
    Rod Speed, Apr 25, 2005
    #15
  16. Read "historical reasons". At the time the CD audio format was being
    developed, "digital" was a new and wonderful thing. It had to be a
    simple format because you couldn't build consumer appliances with
    full-fledged computers in them, to do decompression, DRM or anything
    like that. The idea of using CDs for computer data came later, which is
    why CD-ROMs hold less data than audio CDs (the normal audio CD error
    correction isn't quite good enough for computer data, so additional
    error correction needs to be included).

    For DVDs, it's quite the other way around. The DVD format is primarily a
    computer data format, and DVD-Video, DVD-Audio and all the other DVD
    applications simply build on this computer data format--put any such
    disc into your PC and you'll see a UDF filesystem with files on it.

    With Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, I assume they're doing the same thing as with
    DVD: the discs are designed first and foremost to hold a computer
    filesystem, and all applications are built out of files stored in the
    filesystem.
     
    Lawrence D'Oliveiro, Apr 26, 2005
    #16
  17. Radeon350

    Black Locust Guest

    I said replacement format. :) These 2 tragic failures couldn't even
    replace each other. Go check the CD your section at your local Best Buy
    some time. I think you'll be surprised by the number of customers in
    there digging through them. For what's now a technically "obsolete"
    format that's fighting rampant piracy in the form of MP3 downloads, it's
    still doing pretty well.
     
    Black Locust, Apr 26, 2005
    #17
  18. Radeon350

    Black Locust Guest

    You mean DVD-A? Those things were dead before they even got a chance to
    take off.
    MP3 isn't a replacement format for CD. All an MP3 is, is a compressed
    version of the raw data tracks on a CD. Without CDs, MP3s cannot even
    exist. You can't make MP3s to distribute on the internet until someone
    gets their hands on the original CD copy of the recording
    Agreed. Hell, if Laser Discs can last for 20 years with just a little
    niche status, DVDs can certainly hold on for at least another 10 years
    considering they're now the mainstream format of choice. When even
    Grandma has a DVD player, that solidifies it's long life IMO. As proven
    by the fact that even now, VHS is STILL not entirely dead, 30 YEARS(!!)
    after it's introduction. When a format penetrates as many households as
    VHS did and now DVD has done as well, it proves very difficult for the
    technology to simply just die overnight.
     
    Black Locust, Apr 26, 2005
    #18
  19. Radeon350

    Rod Speed Guest

    Sure, but any decent DVD player will play mp3 off data DVDs now.
    Sure is on that capacity question you brought up.
    Irrelevant on that capacity question you brought up.
    Wrong. They can be created from scratch if you want.
    Only if its come from CD in the first place.

    And music can be distributed in mp3 format too.
    Yeah, taint gunna happen.
     
    Rod Speed, Apr 26, 2005
    #19
  20. Radeon350

    Steve K. Guest


    It's still craziness to run around trying to protect low quaity files
    when higher quality ones are wide open.
     
    Steve K., Apr 29, 2005
    #20
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