Sony DSC-P32

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mario Celija, Jul 23, 2006.

  1. Mario Celija

    Mario Celija Guest

    Hy, I have a problem with my sony DSC-P32 digital camera, When I take a
    photo with flash on, i get something like this

    http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6459/dsc01667vd3.jpg

    (look above the flag)

    I think, maybe flash is broken...
    Or some dust got on the lens...

    Any of your opinions???
     
    Mario Celija, Jul 23, 2006
    #1
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  2. Mario Celija

    m Ransley Guest

    Ghosts-spirits, post more.
     
    m Ransley, Jul 23, 2006
    #2
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  3. Mario Celija

    Mario Celija Guest

    did you see the photo?,

    i don't know - its like bubbles of watter
     
    Mario Celija, Jul 23, 2006
    #3
  4. Mario Celija

    ASAAR Guest

    From the EXIF data it looks like the lens used its widest aperture
    and was zoomed to a very wide angle setting. I don't know how the
    front of the lens is situated with respect to the flash, but perhaps
    this allowed the lens to pick up a bit of the off-axis light from
    the flash, creating reflections (those globular things) or flare.
    If at the same lens settings you always get those globes when the
    flash is used, try fashioning a crude lens shade from opaque paper,
    either taping it to the P32 or just holding it in place while taking
    a few shots, to see if the globes remain or disappear. Without the
    lens shade, do you have the same problem with flash shots when a
    smaller aperture is used and the lens is zoomed out to a longer
    focal length?
     
    ASAAR, Jul 24, 2006
    #4
  5. Mario Celija

    Bill Funk Guest

    This is dust in the air, a common phenomenon with compact P&S cameras.
    The flash is close to the lens, and often dust is illuminated enough
    to show as out-of-focus blobs.
    Or, maybe you've managed to capture the spiritual aura of some dead
    pirates? :)
     
    Bill Funk, Jul 24, 2006
    #5
  6. Mario Celija

    ASAAR Guest

    That's the first thing I thought of, since it has been discussed
    here before. But it if was dust near the lens, it would have been
    much brighter. No?

    Arrrrrh!
     
    ASAAR, Jul 24, 2006
    #6
  7. Mario Celija

    DHB Guest

    They are almost certainly caused by light from the flash being
    reflected back into the lens form airborne particles very close to the
    front of the lens. Don't take my word for it, recreate them by doing
    the following:

    Have somebody shake a piece of clothing like a cotton tea
    shirt or slap a couch pillow a foot of so in front & above your camera
    & then take a wide angle flash picture within a second of doing so.
    You might be amazed @ just how many prarticals you just released back
    into the air & just photographed.

    Another interesting thing I have observed is just how
    reflective most airborne particals are to Near InfraRed light which
    most people call Infrared for short. If you have a video camera
    (camcorder) or a day/night video camera with built-in N.I.R. LEDs, you
    can see these particals in motion by doing the same type of experiment
    as I suggested you might want to try with your digital camera (but
    without the flash). Note, it should be obvious that this would work
    best if done @ night or inside in a poorly illuminated room. A black
    or dark backgrounds will help too.

    I am still amazed @ some of the airborne "stuff" I have
    recorded using inexpensive CMOS N.I.R. illuminated video cameras that
    I have setup to record nocturnal yard visitors. The best part of this
    is that it does not take much of my time since it records while I am
    asleep. At 1st, I programmed a VCR to record @ the time of night I
    hoped for activity but many nights I got nothing & had to sit there &
    watch for activity while it fast forwarded along.

    Now I have various sensors around the area where each camera
    is aimed & they trigger the VCR to turn on for X amount of time when
    it detects activity in the area of the camera's view. Eventually I
    will replace the my VCR with a DVR (Digital Video Recorder) but that's
    another expense I don't need just yet.

    Sorry about the long response but I hope you or others found
    something in it of value.

    Respectfully, DHB


    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
    or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
    is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
    to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
     
    DHB, Jul 24, 2006
    #7
  8. Mario Celija

    Mario Celija Guest



    Thanks for your help. I tried that thing with the couch pillow. With
    flash turned ON and OFF. The photos were both taken with AUTO settings,
    I've got these results:

    1st photo with FLASH OFF

    parameters are:

    Aperture value: F2,8
    Shutter speed: 1/8
    Exposure Value: 0,0
    ISO: 320
    Metering mode: spot
    flash OFF

    link: http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/6567/dsc01716of7.jpg



    2nd photo with FLASH ON (ghosts came back)

    parameters are:

    Aperture value: F4,0
    Shutter speed: 1/40
    Exposure Value: 0,0
    ISO: 160
    Metering mode: spot
    flash ON

    link: http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/8452/dsc01717tu6.jpg



    I think is dust in the air, but why isn't there when flash is turned off?
    Is this normal?
    BTW, Bill Funk - spirital auras of dead pirates was my firs idea :D
     
    Mario Celija, Jul 24, 2006
    #8
  9. Mario Celija

    DHB Guest

    Because these airborne particles don't reflect much light &
    they are in motion, so not enough light is reflected from them to make
    them visible in most non-flash illuminated pictures. The exception
    might be in a room will a direct beam of sun light shining across a
    dark background, in which case you may be able to see the particles by
    eye.
    Yes it's fairly common with built-in flash on a P&S camera
    both because of the angle of illumination (lens & flash very close
    together) & the very strong & brief illumination from the flash that
    seems to freezes them in place. Understand that these particles being
    called "dust" that can show up as these out of focus *orbs* can be
    almost anything from water vapor, pollen, shedded skin or you name it.
    Also I believe that this effect happens far more with digital cameras
    for 2 reasons:

    1> We tend to take far more pictures with them than we ever would have
    considered doing with film because of the cost. So you have a greater
    chance of encountering this effect.

    2> Many of the airborne particles are especially reflective of near
    infrared & all digital camera sensors have some sensitivity to record
    near inferred light because their built-in IR-cut filter is not 100%
    efficient.

    The most pronounced effect I ever got was years ago when I
    photographed a few new rooms in a friend's house. There were so many
    of these *orbs* that it almost looked like it was snowing indoors.
    The pictures were taken the day after the fiberglass insulation was
    installed so it's very likely that they were caused by tiny particles
    of airborne fiberglass that we kicked back up just by walking around
    in the rooms. That's proof enough for me of the need to wear a filter
    mask when installing fiberglass insulation. What you normally can't
    see can sometimes harm you.
    Here is an interesting observation of mine & other's.
    Although these *orbs* can be easily explained, others & myself have
    noticed a disproportionate accuracies of them over or very near
    certain people in group pictures. So either it's just a coincidence
    or?

    Respectfully, DHB


    "To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
    or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
    is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
    to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918
     
    DHB, Jul 24, 2006
    #9
  10. Mario Celija

    Bill Funk Guest

    Not as seen in many other shots of the same sort of dust, no.
    It's out of focus by a large margin, which means that the dusts' image
    covers more of the sensor than if it wer ein good focus, meaning the
    light the dust reflects is also spread out, making it dimmer than you
    might expect.
     
    Bill Funk, Jul 24, 2006
    #10
  11. Mario Celija

    ASAAR Guest

    The pictures I've seen before of illuminated dust were much
    brighter, almost resembling round, fuzzy snowflakes, and they
    appeared in much greater numbers than these few blobs and were
    distributed more randomly than these, many of which in this shot are
    positioned along an arc. A blob not lying along the arc, which is
    barely touching the right side of the flag close to its top has a
    nearly identical but much dimmer sibling just to its right. To me
    they appear more like internal lens reflections than light scattered
    by dust near the lens, but if the OP is satisfied that the blobs
    were caused by dust, that's fine with me.
     
    ASAAR, Jul 24, 2006
    #11
  12. Mario Celija

    Bill Funk Guest

    The flash on this camera is on the upper-right corner. Dust would be
    expected to be in that corner of the image, and it is. The cone of
    light from the flash would illuminate that corner of the area
    immediately in front of the lens there more than in the rest of the
    image.
    Where would reflections come from? Why are none of the reflections in
    a pattern, as they usually are?
     
    Bill Funk, Jul 25, 2006
    #12
  13. Mario Celija

    ASAAR Guest

    But there is a pattern, as I described. Two of them. Most of the
    orbs appear along the path of an arc, and the other two were also
    mentioned (the near identical siblings). It's certainly possible
    that true randomness could have produced this pattern, but all of
    the previous shots of flash illuminated dust particles had them
    scattered in obviously random patterns. If it's dust, the particles
    can't be too close to the lens, or they'd be completely blocked from
    the flash's light. And if they're an inch or two in front of the
    lens, then any particle within the lens's image circle (over the
    sensor) should have been lit by the flash, unless the lens extends a
    great deal beyond the front of the camera. Interesting idea though,
    and if you or I had access to a P32 I'm sure it would either be
    quite easy to figure out what's happening, or non-reproducibility
    might indicate a defect in the OP's camera. Seeing where the globes
    appear in some of the other OP's other shots might also provide some
    clues.

    As for where other causes of the reflections, the time the picture
    was take (assuming accurate EXIF data) was after 9 PM, so there may
    have been a Coleman lantern's bright mantle glowing off to the side,
    bouncing off internal surfaces of the lens causing the blobs. Or
    maybe it's caused by a different type of "dust", but you'd have to
    read some of Philip Pullman's "His Dark Materials" novels (The
    Subtle Knife, etc.) to know what that's all about. :)
     
    ASAAR, Jul 26, 2006
    #13
  14. Mario Celija

    Bill Funk Guest

    OK, it's possible.
     
    Bill Funk, Jul 26, 2006
    #14
  15. Mario Celija

    ASAAR Guest

    As you can see here, you're not the only one that's typing
    challenged. :) I used to often post followup corrections, as you
    did a couple of hours ago, but I rarely do that anymore.
    Fortunately I catch many of the typos, but unfortunately, many of
    them get by spell checkers. Proofing before posting is good policy.
     
    ASAAR, Jul 26, 2006
    #15
  16. Mario Celija

    Bill Funk Guest

    Proofing? What's that?
     
    Bill Funk, Jul 27, 2006
    #16
  17. Mario Celija

    ASAAR Guest

    Proofreading.
     
    ASAAR, Jul 27, 2006
    #17
  18. Mario Celija

    Bill Funk Guest

    You're not giving enough credit.
     
    Bill Funk, Jul 27, 2006
    #18
  19. Mario Celija

    ASAAR Guest

    It's your turn to explain. I have no idea what you mean by that.
     
    ASAAR, Jul 27, 2006
    #19
  20. Mario Celija

    Ol' Bab Guest

    In the ghost hunting world these are called Orbs. For a while
    they had the woo-woo crowd really "snowed" (note pun). I
    believe only a minority still insist these are ghost or
    ectoplasm images. Try a search on orbs, there was quite a few
    sites.

    Ol' Bab, a photographer who really wanted to Believe...
     
    Ol' Bab, Jul 28, 2006
    #20
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