Some benefits after returning to U.S.A

Discussion in 'Computer Support' started by john north, Apr 15, 2010.

  1. john north

    john north Guest

    An american friend who is just coming up for retirement after working nearly
    all his life in Japan, is thinking that he will only be allowed to continue
    working at his present company in Japan if they pay him less than half of
    what he is currently earning. That reduced money would be a big struggle for
    him to survive on.

    He does not think there will be any alternative for him, than to accept this
    reduced pay. He would like to return to America, but since he did not
    contribute to any pension schemes, he thinks this would not be possible
    since he would have no income to survive on there.

    Coming from Europe myself I guess I automatically have faith that the state
    will somehow come through for us in straightened circumstances. But do not
    have any knowledge of what the situation would be in the U.S.A or in fact
    how to find out exactly what benefits might be available for a returning
    american citizen.

    Bearing in mind he has spent nearly all his working life working outside of
    the U.S.A., and has made no pension contributions, would be grateful to
    learn of what his circumstances would likely be, income wise in terms of
    basic benefits; if he just took the plunge and returned to his homeland.
    john north, Apr 15, 2010
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  2. john north

    Jay Hanig Guest

    I would assume he went to Japan to earn more money than he could have
    earned in America. He worked out there his entire adult life and never
    gave any thought to retirement? Now he wants us to tote the bill?

    I resent him putting his hand out. He could have saved some of his
    considerable income, or he could have potentially earned less while
    participating in the various retirement plans of American companies
    along with the government run Social Security. Now he wants me to help
    support him through my taxes? He's got some nerve.

    BTW, it's considered respectful to refer to Americans as "Americans"
    with a capital "A", just as we would refer to the citizens of Japan as
    "Japanese" with a capital "J".

    Jay Hanig, Apr 15, 2010
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  3. john north

    richard Guest

    Plenty of people have done the same thing.
    If he is expecting the US government to help him out because he is broke,
    forget it. Ain't gonna happen.
    If his job is available in the USA, what's stopping him from working there?

    My father retired from his previous job of 33 years. Did that stop him any?
    Hell no. Even though he could have sat around the house doing nothing all
    day, he went to work as a consultant for another 15 years.

    I'm nearly 60 now. Retired from trucking a few years ago. I have my plans
    of going to school to learn something new. No reason why your friend can't
    go back to school for another career.
    richard, Apr 15, 2010
  4. Your father had gumption, was a smart man. He also invested wisely.
    You didn't retire, you quit when your successful father died and left
    you a sizable seven-figure inheritance. This is not private information;
    you said so yourself on your web site.

    When you run low of cash, "All I have to do is phone the attorney and
    have more money sent to my bank account."
    What? There's a school for "mall cop?"
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Apr 15, 2010
  5. john north

    freeisbest Guest

    Your friend might want to think about retirement by assessing his
    real assets: health, time, friends, relatives, possessions, marketable
    skills. You say he earned enough to live in Japan during the boom
    years, which suggests a very large income by U.S. standards. He is
    well ahead of the game if his job will continue, even at reduced pay.
    Unless he has very unusual skills, the U.S. job market is a guarantee
    of greater poverty than he's facing in Japan. That said, I do
    understand from personal experience that one can simply reach the end
    of one's working life.
    Imho the most important questions are where he was living all
    this time, whether he speaks the language fluently, whether he is in
    comfortably conversant with Japanese life, wether he has Japanese
    friends and family. Is he in Tokyo, where it takes a rich man to live
    a middle-class life. If so, does he own his apartment. Is he in a
    town/village somewhere, living in his own house with his Japanese wife
    and children. Does he have any investments anywhere in the U.S.
    If he didn't contribute to U.S. pension funds, I suspect he
    hasn't read the simple requirements for collecting the American old-
    age pension.
    I'm sorry those questions are not as helpful as you hoped for, but
    here's a start:


    If you are among the growing number of Americans who spend part of
    their career working outside the U.S., you may wonder what effect this
    will have on your Social Security taxes and benefits. Fortunately, the
    United States has concluded Social Security agreements with a number
    of other countries that help you avoid double taxation while working
    abroad and also help protect your future benefit rights.
    Your work overseas may help you to qualify for U.S. benefits if it
    was covered under a foreign Social Security system.
    One of the main purposes of the international agreements is to
    help people who have worked in both the United States and the other
    country, but who have not worked long enough in one country or the
    other to qualify for Social Security benefits. Under the agreement, we
    can count your work credits in the other country if this will help you
    qualify for U.S. benefits. However, if you already have enough credit
    under U.S. Social Security to qualify for a benefit, we will not count
    your credits in the other country.
    If we have to count your foreign work credits, you will receive a
    partial U.S. benefit that is related to the length of time you worked
    under U.S. Social Security. Although we may count your work credits in
    the other country, your credits are not actually transferred from that
    country to the United States. They remain on your record in the other
    country. It is therefore possible for you to qualify for a separate
    benefit payment from both countries.
    For more information about the agreements, including details about
    specific agreements in force, read
    If you will receive a pension from a foreign government based on
    your work, the amount of your Social Security benefit may be affected
    by the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP).

    Agreement Country
    Nov. 1, 1978 Japan

    For more information about other agreements, read How International
    Agreements Can Help You.
    freeisbest, Apr 15, 2010
  6. It's called "Kaplan University" and you can go online...

    You has to Goggle for "Mall Kop Degree" and it's like
    the first hit.


    PS, there *might* be a course in "Walmart Greeter" too,
    and eligible for a Pell Grant assistance.


    I AM Bucky Breeder, (*(^; ; and *I* approve this message,
    read straight off of Sarah Palin's Cheat-Sheet-Palm notes.

    HELP! I cain't find teh "Any Key" :

    Repent! The end is near.... So, smoke 'em if you got 'em.
    Bucky Breeder, Apr 15, 2010
  7. Now here's an example of real life decisions having real life consequences.
    The "state" here in the United States is us, the American taxpayer and the
    American voter. Exactly what is the rationale of this friend of yours that
    he be treated differently than the rest of us?
    Lawrence Akutagawa, Apr 15, 2010
  8. he can fly to europe and drown himself in the bosphorus! OMG :p yeah i
    said it
    �b�b�b�, Apr 15, 2010
  9. The politically-inspired responses from the ignorant denizens of this
    newsgroup are probaly incorrect. The US and Japan do indeed have a
    "Totalization Agreement" which might enable him to get *some*
    benefits. For details see:

    "Agreements to coordinate Social Security protection across national
    boundaries have been common in Western Europe for decades. Following
    is a list of the agreements the United States has concluded and the
    date of the entry into force of each. Some of these agreements were
    subsequently revised; the date shown is the date the original
    agreement entered into force."

    Italy November 1, 1978
    Germany December 1, 1979
    Switzerland November 1, 1980
    Belgium July 1, 1984
    Norway July 1, 1984
    Canada August 1, 1984
    United Kingdom January 1, 1985
    Sweden January 1, 1987
    Spain April 1, 1988
    France July 1, 1988
    Portugal August 1, 1989
    Netherlands November 1, 1990
    Austria November 1, 1991
    Finland November 1, 1992
    Ireland September 1, 1993
    Luxembourg November 1, 1993
    Greece September 1, 1994
    South Korea April 1, 2001
    Chile December 1, 2001
    Australia October 1, 2002
    Japan October 1, 2005
    Denmark October 1, 2008
    Czech Republic January 1, 2009
    Poland March 1, 2009
    Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley, Apr 15, 2010
  10. From the original post -

    "...he did not contribute to any pension schemes..."

    "Bearing in mind he has spent nearly all his working life working outside of
    the U.S.A., and has made no pension contributions..."

    The reference you cite talks about Social Security payments having been made
    to either country. Original post says no pension contributions have been
    made, whereby the operative presumption is that no Social Security payments
    have been made to either country. Note well that the original post is
    seeking information of possible government - "state" - benefits.

    Clearly if he did not contribute to any private plans, he gets no benefits
    from any private plan. So the context of the original post is not that of
    any private plan, but of a government one. Now he not having made any
    contributions to a government plan, the original post asks what government
    benefits are available to him. The reference you cite is valid in the
    context of him having made contributions to the one government plan or the
    other. But - to repeat - he has made no contributions to any - repeat,
    any - "pension schemes". Given his situation of having made absolutely no
    pension contributions at all - least of all to any government plan - the
    reference you cite is a non sequitur vis a vis his situation.
    Lawrence Akutagawa, Apr 15, 2010
  11. john north

    Pony Guest

    A Thank You to:
    Lawrence Akutagawa and
    Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley.
    Excellent information.
    John North;
    Your friend possible can research the cost of living in different parts
    of the U.S.A.and what income is needed for retirement, using the
    internet. Keeping in mind cost of living increases and health care.
    Most people in the U.S.A. with the exception of receiving Social
    Security and Medicare, if paid into these programs, are left to their
    own devices concerning retirement.
    Wish your friend a comfortable retirement.
    Pony, Apr 15, 2010
  12. You don't know that for a fact - the original post was not that
    Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley, Apr 17, 2010
  13. You don't know that for a fact - the original post was not that

    Of course not. You are right. I do not know for a fact. On the other
    hand, how do you interpret

    "...he did not contribute to any pension schemes..."

    "Bearing in mind he has spent nearly all his working life working outside of
    the U.S.A., and has made no pension contributions..."

    To clarify the situation, perhaps the original poster can make precisely
    clear whether the individual concerned did make contributions to a
    government plan. And if there were indeed such contributions, then the
    original poster can perhaps also clarify those two statements I quoted from
    the original post.
    Lawrence Akutagawa, Apr 17, 2010
  14. Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley, Apr 17, 2010
  15. Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley, Apr 17, 2010
  16. What the cited article does not explain is what kind of pension benefits -
    if any - a person who has not paid any premiums can get. This - not
    coverage - is the issue posed in the original post.


    "You can receive the Old-age Basic Pension at the age of 65 if you have been
    covered under the National Pension and Employees’ Insurance systems. To
    satisfy contribution requirements, your total insurable periods* need to be
    25 years or more.

    "* Your total insurable periods include your contribution-paid period,
    contribution-exempted period and other qualifying period when you are
    covered as the Category ?, Category ? or Category ? insured persons.

    "Benefit Amount

    "(Yen)792,100 / year (full benefit amount for 40 years of contribution

    "If you have not contributed or have been exempted from payment, the amount
    (Yen)792,100 x (?+?+?+?+?) / 40 years * x 12
    ?Number of contribution-paid months
    ?Number of full contribution-exempted months** x 1/3
    ?Number of three-quarter contribution-exempted months** x 1/2
    ?Number of half contribution-exempted months** x 2/3
    ?Number of one-quarter contribution-exempted months** x 5/6
    * Shorter for some people, depending on date of birth
    **Depending on your income or according to the National Pension Law, you may
    be granted an exemption of full- or partial- amount of contribution

    Given that the friend in the original post has made no contributions and is
    not exemption eligible (read the article for exemption
    eligibility...basically, you have to be disabled/poor, you have to apply for
    the exemption, and the exemption has to have been approved), my take from
    this passage is that his benefit is zero. If your conclusion from reading
    this passage and the cited link is different, please explain.

    And I still am interested in your take of those two passages in the original
    post that I quoted:

    "...he did not contribute to any pension schemes..."

    "Bearing in mind he has spent nearly all his working life working outside of
    the U.S.A., and has made no pension contributions..."

    While - as I said - I don't know for fact that that he did not make any
    contributions to a government plan, allow me to logically observe the
    1. If he contributed to a private pension plan, those two statements would
    be false.
    2. If he contributed to the Japanese government pension plan, those two
    statements would be false.
    3. If he contributed to the United States government pension plan, those two
    statement would be false.

    So given that the two statements are true, my understanding logically is
    that he contributed nothing to a private pension plan, to the Japanese
    government pension plan, and to the United States government pension plan.

    If your understanding differs from mine, I eagerly look forward to your
    explanation of how your understanding is logically consistent with those two
    Lawrence Akutagawa, Apr 18, 2010
  17. If he is age 65 or more, he might qualify for SSI - see

    But SSI - Supplemental Security Income - is not Social Security benefits.
    It reads more like a welfare program rather than a pension program. Read
    the criteria for SSI:

    Income criteria
    Countable income no more than SSI Federal Benefit rate
    The SSI Federal Benefit rate currently (2010) is
    $674 per month for an individual
    $1,011 per month for a couple

    Resource criteria
    Countable assets no more that $2,000 for individual, $3,000 for couple

    If I understand the presented explanation, if you have zero countable income
    the SSI Federal Benefit rate is the maximum benefit you can receive given
    you meet the resource criteria. That is something, which is hands down
    better than nothing, but not one heck of a lot of something.
    Lawrence Akutagawa, Apr 18, 2010
  18. john north

    Rod Speed Guest

    But he isnt japanese, he's american.
    Rod Speed, Apr 18, 2010
  19. That means the population of Japan, not the racial/ethnic group.

    Until and unless john north (the original poster) clarifies the exact
    situation that he is aluding to, in detail, I don't think an exact and
    correct response is going to be forthcoming (including from me).
    Rubaiyat of Omar Bradley, Apr 19, 2010
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