Should have bought the 5D a year ago :(

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by W, Feb 23, 2007.

  1. W

    W Guest

    How depressing now that the rumour/reality mill seems to be saying no
    5D rreplacement until a year from now :( Especially after the double
    rebate has ended. Ugggghhhhh!
     
    W, Feb 23, 2007
    #1
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  2. W

    george Guest

    Even more tragic would be if so many who own Nikon equipment and are hoping
    for a Nikon FF and NOT switching systems to get it, wind up both not getting
    a Nikon FF body AND keeping Canon FF sales numbers lower than they'd be
    otherwise such that Canon decides to discontinue FF bodies.

    Don't you still have a little bit of time to get your $600 rebate?
     
    george, Feb 23, 2007
    #2
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  3. W

    Eric Miller Guest

    Not for me. I'll be expecting my rebate check from Canon any month now . . .

    In the meantime, I have no regrets on purchasing my 5D. The noise levels
    at 1600 ISO and overall IQ are amazing. I realize, after buying it, that
    it is probably all the camera that I will ever need. I have wide angle
    again and it's sweet.

    Eric Miller
     
    Eric Miller, Feb 23, 2007
    #3
  4. W

    C J Campbell Guest

    It never pays to wait for the next model. You could have been taking pictures
    for a year now, instead of waiting for the next model. Maybe the 5D
    replacement will take slightly better pictures than the 5D. You will probably
    need a microscope to see the difference. So now you have a bunch of nothing.
    Surely, even the photos from a 5D are better than nothing.

    No matter what camera you buy, it will be obsolete anywhere from six months
    to a year from now. Tough. There are still plenty of people doing very good
    photography with their D1s or even, <shock>, film.
     
    C J Campbell, Feb 23, 2007
    #4
  5. W

    bugbear Guest

    For the medium term, they'll always be a better, cheaper
    camera next year.

    At some point you have to decide for yourself
    that your use of the camera in the time between
    now and the hypothetical better camera justifies
    the difference in price.

    An analogy, from the early 1980's (Apple II and
    Commodore pet days...)

    A guy wrote to a magazine saying
    "I'd like to get a computer
    to do my accounts, but the sort
    of computer I want will be 300 pounds
    cheaper next year. What should I do?"

    reply:
    "If computerising your accounts
    won't save you 300 pounds a year,
    you shouldn't do it. If it will
    save you 300 pounds a year, buy
    a computer now"

    BugBear
     
    bugbear, Feb 23, 2007
    #5
  6. W

    Paul Rubin Guest

    I think the hope is that the 5D successor will cost a lot less. So
    you get to choose between a 5D today, or a comparable camera AND a
    couple of decent lenses for the same expenditure when the successor
    comes out.

    The successor may also be smaller, like the Rebel series is smaller
    than the ancient D30 (not to be confused with the 30D). The 30D and
    5D were breakthrough cameras in sort of the same way, but the
    technology has to make its way down to more affordable cameras.
     
    Paul Rubin, Feb 23, 2007
    #6
  7. W

    W Guest

    Well I have a 20D so I have been shooting. I don't know that the "next
    5D" will be cheaper. I am hoping it will have all the technology
    evolution (better sensor fill factor, lower sensor noise, 14 bit A/D,
    cleaning, mo' megapixels and whatever else) of the 1dMkIII. I guess I
    didn't expect that the 5D model would last as long as 2 1/2 years (if
    it doesn't come out until 2008). I think the rebates on the current
    model ended a few days ago.

    Overall, I am quite satisfied with my 20D. It takes great shots. BUT,
    I don't like the crop factor (I want my 24mm lens to be wide again).
    Whenever I purchase my next body, it will be full frame whether it is
    the current or next 5D. I expect I won't lust for another upgrade for
    years after that. If I had known for a fact that the 5D replacement
    won't come till 2008, I probably would have jumped on the double
    rebate. My fear was/is that I would have had the 5D and then within
    six months Canon released the new 5D with a bunch of significant
    improvements. Oh well, I think my 20D battery needs recharging....
     
    W, Feb 23, 2007
    #7
  8. My guess is you really didn't want the 5D or you would have bought it. My
    suggestion is buy it and enjoy it since it is one sweet camera with the
    proper lenses.







    Rita
     
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=, Feb 23, 2007
    #8
  9. W

    Paul Rubin Guest

    I don't think any really enormous improvements are possible in the
    near future. Just incremental ones, like going from the 20D to the
    30D. Frankly if I had the bucks for it, I'd probably just buy a 5D
    and stop paying attention to new cameras, the 5D will be viable for at
    least a decade. My 1980-vintage Nikon F3 is still going strong--in
    the genre of manual focus 35mm film cameras, yes, sure, there were
    some slight advances made in later years, but obsoleting the F3
    required departing the genre altogether and introducing completely new
    technology. And there isn't anything new like that on the DSLR
    horizon.
     
    Paul Rubin, Feb 23, 2007
    #9
  10. W

    W Guest

    Don't know that I totally agree with that. The changes Canon
    implemented in the 1DMkiii(higher fill factor, lower noise circuitry,
    14 bit A/D, anti-dust cleaning sensor, live view), are more
    significant than the 20D->30D. I would hope this technology would all
    make it into the next 5D.
     
    W, Feb 24, 2007
    #10
  11. W

    Paul Rubin Guest

    Yeah none of that stuff is really overwhelming though. And I think
    the higher fill factor is because of the cmos sensor, which has its
    own tradeoffs. The 14 bit a/d is probably the most significant.
    According to Roger Clark's measurements the circuit noise is already
    close to the quantum limits, if I understand his articles correctly.

    I'm skeptical of the dust stuff.
     
    Paul Rubin, Feb 24, 2007
    #11
  12. W

    Skip Guest

    I doubt that a 5D successor will cost appreciably less, if you look at the
    pricing of the last few generations of bodies, the prices have stayed
    somewhat stable, the feature set has expanded. That's not to say that Canon
    may, or may not, introduce a lower priced full 35mm frame body at some point
    in the future.
     
    Skip, Feb 24, 2007
    #12
  13. W

    Skip Guest

    If you look at what has been done to the 1D mkIII, you'd see that there are
    a lot of features that could be implemented that most would not consider
    incremental ones, like 14 bit sampling, higher frame rate (if you take the
    dual processor/10.5 fps of the 1D mkIII, that would imply a frame rate of
    about 6 fps for a single processor), dust removal/mapping, and that wouldn't
    even bring in a higher resolution, possible with the new pixel/sensor
    design.
     
    Skip, Feb 24, 2007
    #13
  14. W

    Paul Rubin Guest

    All those improvements are incremental. The 14 bit sampling is the
    really significant one, since it means the electronics are using the
    sensor's whole dynamic range. It will be great if they do that with
    the 5D successor.
     
    Paul Rubin, Feb 24, 2007
    #14
  15. W

    Skip Guest

    No, _each_ improvement is incremental, but taken as a whole, they are not.
    Any one of them would not be a reason to move to a different camera, in my
    opinion, but the totality, if offered in a 5D successor, probably would be.
     
    Skip, Feb 24, 2007
    #15
  16. W

    W Guest

    You bring up an intersting point (about the 14 bits - increased
    dynamic range). I believe ISO selection just sets a gain in the
    amplifier coming out of the sensor. At what point do you have enough
    bits so that "ISO" can be selected after the fact(In other words there
    would be enough info in the captured data so that there would no
    longer be the need to use a variable analog gain stage). It would have
    to be a whole lot more than 14 I guess and an incredibly low noise
    amplifier to boot. I wonder if the Roger Clark types or anyone else
    has a thought on this?
     
    W, Feb 24, 2007
    #16
  17. W

    Paul Rubin Guest

    Yes, 14 bits is about right, it's shown pretty clearly in Roger's graphs.
     
    Paul Rubin, Feb 24, 2007
    #17
  18. ... and maybe 15 bits with full-frame?

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Feb 24, 2007
    #18
  19. W

    Paul Rubin Guest

    Frame size isn't the issue, it's the ccd well depth and read noise.
    Maybe 15 or 16 bits would be a slight improvement over 14, but it's
    not a situation where infinite resolution will do any good. You're
    trying to count discrete electrons and there are at most 70,000 or so
    of them in a well in these sensors, iirc.
     
    Paul Rubin, Feb 24, 2007
    #19
  20. I was thinking of full-frame with the best quality - 7-10MP rather than
    22MP.

    David
     
    David J Taylor, Feb 24, 2007
    #20
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