Seeking answers about 64-bit Windows XP vs 64-bit Vista.

Discussion in 'Windows 64bit' started by RMZ, Jan 18, 2007.

  1. Because I was answering Al dykes question. Your second paragraph is anwered
    in other responses.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jan 18, 2007
    #21
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  2. RMZ

    Aaron Kelley Guest

    I haven't run any benchmarks, and I dunno if they'd be terribly useful right
    now since I am running VMware Workstation 6 beta which it perceptively
    slower than Workstation 5.5 (according to them and even previous beta
    testers, this is because of extra debug stuff / logging that will disappear
    with the final release).

    It sure does boot fast though. :p

    - Aaron
     
    Aaron Kelley, Jan 18, 2007
    #22
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  3. It has been clarified. You CAN use an upgrade edition product key to
    migrate from x86 Windows to x64 Vista after all. However, Setup does NOT
    ask for your old Windows media. There are no shiny media checks at all with
    Vista upgrade editions.

    What happens is that when you boot with an x64 dvd and enter an upgrade
    edition product key Setup scans your computer for a qualifying Windows
    installation and if it finds one then Setup continues WITHOUT requiring you
    to reboot and run from a desktop the way x86 Setup does. Some of us got
    Darrel Gorter at MS to do an installation of x64 with an upgrade edition
    product key to check out exactly what does happen.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jan 18, 2007
    #23
  4. RMZ

    Aaron Kelley Guest

    Ah thank you!

    - Aaron

     
    Aaron Kelley, Jan 18, 2007
    #24
  5. RMZ

    RMZ Guest

    I seriously hope this isn't the case.... Consumers running 64-bit
    hardware are crippled from upgrading to 64-bit Windows Vista because
    their system didn't ship with a 64-bit version of Windows. If Microsoft
    really cared about pushing 64-bit technology forward (and they should
    care, it gives them a strategic advantage.... last time I checked all
    the current MacBook Pro's are running Intel Core 2 Duo chips).

    Don't mention the memory, I realize a good number of notebooks are
    limited to 2-Gig of psychical memory, but 64-bit virtual address space
    advantage and use of 64-bit registers can make a difference... It
    appears the jump from 32-bit to 64 is down played out side the server
    world. The attitude (not necessarily from this group, although in some
    of these post there is a hint of it) seems to be "you just don't need
    that much power". That seems really narrow minded to me.
     
    RMZ, Jan 18, 2007
    #25
  6. RMZ

    Al Dykes Guest

    Re 64 bit servers, it depends. Application servers need it. big
    datbases need memory. If you can make your data fit into vitrual
    memory array and let the pageing handle the messy disk IO details you
    can cut out an entire IO and buffer management part of the
    application. There is even a special class of "in memory" DB servers
    that are even faster.

    Exchange Server has apparently been hurting for memory for a few
    years. I've read a whitepaper by the guys that run Microsoft's own
    Exchange server farm. Under 32bit Server they had stability and
    scaling problems. They switched to 64bit windows while still in
    beta. The article said it made a huge difference. FWIW.
     
    Al Dykes, Jan 18, 2007
    #26
  7. RMZ

    Dennis Pack Guest

    RMZ:
    I'll try to clear-up some confusion. When you buy an Apple MacBook
    you are getting all hardware and software from Apple. Just because it now
    has a 64-bit processor doesn't mean that it's automatically a 64-bit
    operating system. When you purchase Vista, it installs on the hardware that
    you choose. If you choose a 32-bit processor you are limited to a 32-bit
    version of Vista. If the processor is 64-bit you have the choice of
    installing Vista 32-bit or 64-bit. The statement "Consumers running 64-bit
    hardware are crippled from upgrading to 64-bit Windows Vista because their
    system didn't ship with a 64-bit version of Windows." is invalid because you
    can install the full version of Vista x64 or the upgrade version of Vista
    x64 (except the starter edition) as long as you have a 64-bit processor. The
    amount of ram being used is based on user desire, user requirements or
    mother board limitations. I currently have 4 x64 capable systems and 1 x86
    system. The x86 system has a mother board limitation of 3GB (running 1GB),
    the x64 laptop has a mother board limitation of 2GB (running 1.5GB), 2 x64
    systems with a motherboard limitation of 4GB (running 2GB) and 1 x64 system
    with a motherboard limitation of 8GB (running 2GB), all run Vista without
    problems. Just because a 64-bit operating system can run up to 128GB ram
    doesn't mean that it won't function properly with less. Have a great day.
     
    Dennis Pack, Jan 18, 2007
    #27
  8. So, win2k pro qualifies for updating to Vista x64??? That's interesting!


    Tony. . .
     
    Tony Sperling, Jan 18, 2007
    #28
  9. Users with 64bit capable PC's will be OK. They can use an upgrade edition
    to move from 32bit Windows to 64bit Vista. They won't be able to do an
    upgrade but they can still do a migration. Installing 64bit Vista with an
    upgrade edition product key requires booting with the x64 dvd and doing a
    custom install. Since the x64 dvd's do not require running Setup from the
    legacy OS desktop like the x86 dvd's do, it is just a matter of using the
    Windows Easy Transfer wizard to transfer files and settings and
    reinstallation of the apps that are 64bit compatible to complete the
    migration.

    Although the Macs run 64bit cpu's, OS/X isn't as far along as Windows.
    64bit editions of OS/X are not available yet.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jan 19, 2007
    #29
  10. Yes it does. When you boot with the x64 dvd and enter an upgrade edition
    product key Setup will scan for qualifying operating systems and when it
    finds Win2k it will proceed with installation. I think this is a case where
    you will be able to format the drive Win2k is on prior to installing Vista
    since Win2k will not be running and you won't have a locked system drive.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jan 19, 2007
    #30
  11. RMZ

    RMZ Guest

    Thanks for clearing this up.... This is really what I was wanting to
    know, I hope the driver support is there... I would hope with
    notebooks running AMD64 Turion (or Turion x2) with integrated video and
    audio that AMD would be proactive in providing Vista 64-bit drivers for
    their hardware. The rest I suppose is up to the PC vendors.
     
    RMZ, Jan 19, 2007
    #31
  12. RMZ

    Dshai Guest

    Just because I'm in a mischievous mood and feel the urge to throw another
    wrench in the gears...<g>...if you're really looking for long-term 64bit
    architecture and stability, go Solaris...I'll go run and hide now...<g>
     
    Dshai, Jan 19, 2007
    #32
  13. RMZ

    Aaron Kelley Guest

    Most major video chipsets should be supported (Vista has in-box drivers for
    mobile NVIDIA and ATI cards, probably Intel too but I haven't tried that
    one.

    Audio, I imagine, is slightly more vendor-specific.

    - Aaron
     
    Aaron Kelley, Jan 19, 2007
    #33
  14. RMZ

    RMZ Guest

    According to their website, only the Apple Mac Pro (desktop) systems
    offer 64-bit hardware (Intel Xeon 64-bit dual-quard core) and those
    come with 64-bit MacOS installed. Everything else Apple offers,
    including their entry level notebooks, MacBook Pro's and mid-range iMac
    are all based on the non-64-bit, Intel Core 2 Duo chips.

    So it should be noted, currently you can't buy a new 64-bit MacBook
    Pro. However, 64-bit Windows based PCs are readily available for under
    $1000. Due to Apple's commitment to Intel it would be difficult for
    them to produce a counterpart since Intel doesn't offer a dual core
    64-bit processor for notebooks. Given this, if I were Microsoft I'd be
    exploiting the powers of 64-bit as much as possible, developing first
    party 64-bit applications and encouraging the development community
    with 64-bit developer resources and events.
     
    RMZ, Jan 19, 2007
    #34
  15. RMZ

    Jane C Guest

    Intel Core 2 Duo cpus are 64 bit.
     
    Jane C, Jan 19, 2007
    #35
  16. RMZ

    Aaron Kelley Guest

    Right. Apple launched with Core Duo's (not Core 2 Duo's) which were not
    64-bit, but most of their line has been updated now.

    - Aaron
     
    Aaron Kelley, Jan 19, 2007
    #36
  17. I'm running WindowsXP 64-bit inside VWMARE Workstation 5.5. (hosted on a
    64-bit Linux machine).

    --- Jan
     
    Jan Wielemaker, Jan 19, 2007
    #37
  18. I know 5.5 supports x64 guests, but I am getting good results with the beta
    and there are some enhancements.
     
    Colin Barnhorst, Jan 19, 2007
    #38
  19. * RMZ:
    As long as it is somehow related to 64bit Windows, then no.
    Sure. That's one of the few cases where 64bit really makes sense...
    There are already 64bit editing programs, but they didn't bring a
    revolution. It's very useful for HD editing but currently that's more
    something for the professional market. Consumers just do fine with their
    1-2GB memory and 32bit Windows...
    Right, but that's also more a niche market. We do 64bit MCAD but really
    need it for very big assemblies. Smaller projects still can be done fine
    on a 32bit system...
    Nope. Games usually benefit very little from 64bit. The few games where
    64bit clients are available do look better, but not because it's 64bit
    but because there were several other omptimizations made that could have
    easily be done on the 32bit client as well. The reason why this hasn't
    been made is primarily that the 64bit game clients were mainly marketing
    aids, especially for AMD...
    Right. But the times were different. Today even entry level PCs are more
    than fast enough for the majority of tasks. The demand for even more
    memory and performance is much lower than when Windows95 came out. There
    are areas where 64bit makes sense, but these usually are
    professional/business markets and not the consumer market for the
    average user.
    Well, 64bit is not new. It's around for decades now. Crays UNICOS
    already has been 64bit for ages, all commercial UNIXes made the step to
    64bit years ago. Windowsxp 64bit came out at around the same time when
    the 32bit version appeared (~mid 2001). Not for AMD64/x64 of course but
    for IA64 (Itanium). If you look at the area where 64bit is old news
    (UNIX market) then you'll notice that even there 64bit is only used if
    it makes sense. Programs that don't benefit from 64bit are still 32bit,
    simply because they run faster and need less ressources...

    Benjamin
     
    Benjamin Gawert, Jan 20, 2007
    #39
  20. Well, if your users are well heeled and can benefit greatly from 64 bit
    processing, you can sell them on an app for Windows 2003 Server, 64 bit
    edition.
    In the specific case of MS Windows, yes. As a general statement, no;
    they can if there's a 32 bit OS (like Solaris 6) that supports 64 bit
    applications.
    The lack of a market? Little of the installed base of computers and
    OSes supports 64 bit apps, so the lowest common denominator (32 bit
    apps) is the most profitable market.
     
    ranjit_mathews, Jan 21, 2007
    #40
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