SD10: Canon versus Sigma

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Steven M. Scharf, May 13, 2004.

  1. Battle of the SD10s: Canon SD10 (3.9 Mp) versus Sigma SD10 (3.43 Mp)

    Some of the competitive comparisons with the Sigma SD10 have been rather
    unfair. Let's face reality here, compared against D-SLRs with much higher
    resolution; of course the SD10 is going to look bad since the SD10's 3.43 Mp
    sensor has 43% less resolution than the 6 Mp sensor on a Canon 10D or Nikon
    D70.

    Since Canon also offers an SD10 model, a fairer comparison would be to
    compare the Sigma SD10 against the Canon SD10. Besides sharing model
    numbers, these two models are about equal in terms of image quality and
    megapixels.

    Megapixels
    ----------
    Canon SD10: 3.9
    Sigma SD10: 3.43

    Canon has more slightly more megapixels on its sensor.


    Maximum Resolution
    ------------------
    Canon SD10: 2272 x 1704
    Sigma SD10: 2268 x 1512


    Canon is slightly higher resolution, but it's close enough so that this isn'
    t a real issue.


    Storage Included
    ----------------
    Canon SD10: Yes
    Sigma SD10: No, extra cost option

    Not a big deal, but at least with the Canon SD10 you can begin using the
    camera without buying extra accessories.


    Lowest ISO rating
    -----------------
    Canon SD10: 50
    Sigma SD10: 100

    Canon beats Sigma.


    Auto-Focus Points
    -----------------

    Canon SD10: 5
    Sigma SD10: 1

    Canon beats Sigma in a big way.


    Built-In Flash
    --------------
    Canon SD10: Yes
    Sigma SD10: No, external flash is available as an option

    Canon beats Sigma. A convenience flash is standard on other consumer and
    prosumer digital SLR cameras, but Sigma failed to provide this feature.


    Movie Clips
    -----------
    Canon SD10: Yes
    Sigma SD10: No

    Canon beats Sigma.


    Self-Timer
    ----------
    Canon SD10: 2 sec or 10 sec
    Sigma SD10: 10 sec

    Canon beats Sigma. Often you want a short self-timer, just to eliminate
    shake induced by pushing the shutter release.


    Li-Ion Battery and Charger Included
    -----------------------------------
    Canon SD10: Yes
    Sigma SD10: No, not available

    Canon beats Sigma. This is a big advantage of the Canon.



    Price
    -----
    Canon SD10: $300
    Sigma SD10: $1300 without lenses.


    Canon beats Sigma by a lot.


    Conclusion
    ----------
    The Canon SD10 is a much better deal. It is higher resolution, more capable,
    and includes many features that are either extra cost, or not available at
    all, on the Sigma SD10. The Canon SD10 is also a whopping $1000 less than
    the Sigma SD10, and this is before you even have bought a single lens for
    the Sigma SD10. If you must have interchangeable lenses, then the Sigma SD10
    is the better SD10, but there are other digital SLRs that are less expensive
    and more capable than the Sigma SD10.
     
    Steven M. Scharf, May 13, 2004
    #1
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  2. Yawn. I bet you've never used either camera.
     
    Peter A. Stavrakoglou, May 13, 2004
    #2
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  3. George suffers from DKS - Don't Know Shit
     
    Randall Ainsworth, May 13, 2004
    #3
  4. Here is a 3.7MP-interpolated Bayer image) vs a 3.4MP non-interpolated
    Foveon image. It is quite an interesting comparo...

    http://www.pbase.com/pennychallenge
     
    George Preddy, May 13, 2004
    #4
  5. Steven M. Scharf

    Steve Moody Guest

    Those aren't full sized images, so they don't meet with your own
    requirements. They also are not your images. Show us your
    "professional" images.
     
    Steve Moody, May 14, 2004
    #5
  6. Steven M. Scharf

    Skip M Guest

    It would have been nice if the photographer, obviously not you, had taken
    the care to get the other images in focus, especially the Oly E-10. It's
    hard to compare resolution when the image is so badly focused.
    Here's a properly focused image from an Oly E-10...

    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com/weshookah.html

    ;-)
     
    Skip M, May 14, 2004
    #6
  7. Steven M. Scharf

    JPS Guest

    In message <>,
    Interesting, how they are all out-of-focus except the SD9 image. How
    many focused images have you edited out of this?
    --
     
    JPS, May 14, 2004
    #7
  8. The teeny tiny Canon sensor has...

    xxxx (0.9M Red)
    xxxxxxxx (1.9M Green)
    xxxx (0.9M Blue)

    The enormous (biggest of all digital SLRs) Foveon has...

    xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (3.4M Red)
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (3.4M Green)
    xxxxxxxxxxxxxx (3.4M Blue)

    That is, Foveon yeilds exactly 351% more optical data.
    The Sigma has about 7 stops more dynamic range at ISO 100.
    Your data is wrong, not suprising. Sigma has 2 or 10 sec timer plus 3
    IR remote channels an additional 2 sec delay or instant on top of the
    timer/no timer options.

    And the Sigma of course uses an IR remote inconjunction with MLU,
    which is a abslute requirement for anything besides snapshots. The
    300D and D100 fail miserably.
    Any camera that can't take both AAs and CRV3s is absolutely not an
    option for pros. The monstrous Sigma SD9 solution with a *whopping*
    [4xCRV3s + 2xCR123s] yeilds about 2500 shots using 4GB Microdrive. No
    other DLSR can match that.
    Canon doesn't take pro lenses you are right, but the Simga does
    include pro lenses in most cases, cost is about $750 including 2 pro
    lenses and a 1GB drive. Obviously that is the best deal in the
    history of photography, all film cameras since the very beginning
    included.
    It interpolates more, anyway. And it can't take a tall flash, which
    as the even worse Canon 10D shows, is better for 100% red eye.
     
    George Preddy, May 14, 2004
    #8
  9. 3.9 MP, as stated above.
    The least amount of spatial pixels in any recent DSLR.
    You mean monstrous, as in monstrously crap?


    Well, it's a point&shoot compared to a DSLR. This shouldn't come as a
    suprise.

    -JP
     
    Jukka-Pekka Suominen, May 14, 2004
    #9
  10. The Canon SD10 is a "fashion" camera. It comes in 4 different colours.
    It is designed to make a fashion statement as much as take pictures.
    In a real sense, it's a piece of jewelry that happens to record images.
    It's not a toy camera, exactly, but it's not a serious camera either.

    The Sigma, on the other hand, is a, well, hmm, errr, nevermind.

    Dave
     
    Dave Martindale, May 14, 2004
    #10
  11. No other digital camera has even 1 optical pixel, all others are interpolated.
     
    George Preddy, May 15, 2004
    #11
  12. Steven M. Scharf

    Skip M Guest

    How on earth, even given your twisted logic, can any digital camera not have
    "even 1 optical pixel, all others are interpolated?" It has to have
    something to interpolate from, you blithering idiot!!! Geez, do you even
    read what you type?? Because it's obvious you don't think about it first!!

    --
    Skip Middleton
    http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
    interpolated.
     
    Skip M, May 15, 2004
    #12
  13. Steven M. Scharf

    Marli Guest

    Minolta had a 3 CCD still SLR camera.


    interpolated.
     
    Marli, May 15, 2004
    #13
  14. It's very simple, but don't be ashamed, most people don't understand
    it. All Bayer based cameras only have RGGB mosiac sensors, not full
    color sensors per output pixel. So each full color pixel in the
    output image is digitally, not optically, determined via color
    interpolation (guessing).
     
    George Preddy, May 15, 2004
    #14
  15. That is wonderful to know, thanks. What happened to it, is it still for sale?
     
    George Preddy, May 15, 2004
    #15
  16. Steven M. Scharf

    Skip M Guest

    George, read this carefully. Color sensor and optical sensors are
    different. Your own comments about the original Foveon monochrome camera
    indicate that you, in some deep recess of your mind, realize this.
     
    Skip M, May 15, 2004
    #16
  17. You don't understand the difference between optical resolution and
    interpolated resolution. Not a problem to explain...

    Optical resolution means every output pixel results from combining a
    complete set of fully discrete red, green, and blue sensors.
    Optically, all of them must be colocated on the sensor plane (Foveon
    and 3-CCD cameras do this), but as long as they are adjacent and only
    1 pixel is output for every complete and discrete RGB set, the
    distortion won't be that bad. Interpolated resolutions output more
    pixels than there are fully discrete RGB sets of sensors, IOWs they
    are upscaled.

    Interpolated resolutions are of course completely meaningless, since
    any image can be interpolated to any number of recorded output pixels,
    there is no limit. But even after digtal interpolation, optical
    resolution remains unchanged.

    Bayer camera (all DSLRs except Sigma/Foveon) output is only 25%
    optical, that is 4 output pixels for every discrete set of RGB
    sensors. Foveon output is 100% optical, 1 output pixel for every
    discrete RGB set of sensors. So to compare actual resolution, you
    simply take the rated Bayer MPs/4. There is actually more to it since
    Bayers also have to incorporate a special blur filter to avoid color
    rainbowing, but the above formula (Bayer MP/4) always presents Bayer
    in its best light, so its a good place to start comparing.

    Worth noting, Foveon cameras optionally output an interpolated
    resolution of 13.72MP (4536 x 3024) which is not-coincidentally
    exactly 25% optical, 4 output pixels for every discrete RGB set. So
    you can compare Bayer interpolated resolutions directly to that, which
    is why they have it.
     
    George Preddy, May 15, 2004
    #17
  18. SNIP
    Preddiot weird science snipped leaves... Nothing.

    Bart
     
    Bart van der Wolf, May 15, 2004
    #18
  19. There is only one color sensor currently used in digital cameras, the
    Foveon Pro 10M. All the others are totally monochrome sensors, with
    plastic mosaic filters placed in front of them. Color is derived
    digitally by borrowing neighboring readings, then re-using that same
    reading over and over again, in (at least) 9 different output pixels.
    I certainly realize that Foveon's 16MP monochrome sensor would be
    labeled 16MP "full color" by Bayer manufacturers. Obviously, that is
    a total scam.
     
    George Preddy, May 15, 2004
    #19
  20. Steven M. Scharf

    Steve Moody Guest

    Don't you mean to call George a blathering idiot? ;)
     
    Steve Moody, May 16, 2004
    #20
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