Scenic areas in England

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Shawn Hirn, May 4, 2009.

  1. Shawn Hirn

    Chris H Guest

    They are
    This proves that you do not see much. I have seen hundreds. Actually
    many fishing, horse and "country" shops were also gun shops.
    This is where most come from now.

    They don't
    The Office of statistics has already had a go at the government over
    it's massaging and misuse of statistics. Also this government has lied
    more than any other in history.
    What gun clubs? Most have gone.
    They usually practice in France and have had one hell of a time getting
    permits to bring the guns into the UK for the Olympics... For them it is
    much more difficult than any other nation!!! Not sure why but it is
    something to do with them being UK nationals domiciled in the UK but
    claiming they are "just visiting" the UK (from the UK)
    It's not the same.
    Chris H, May 19, 2009
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  2. Shawn Hirn

    Chris H Guest

    The situation is worse now. There are more guns than before the ban...
    virtually none of them legal. More people are illegally carrying guns
    than in the past.
    Chris H, May 19, 2009
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  3. Shawn Hirn

    whisky-dave Guest

    between the UK and the US, I'm not sure what you mean by after the guns
    You'd have to indicate what you mean by homicde before I'll answer that.
    whisky-dave, May 19, 2009
  4. Chris H wrote:

    The figures don't seem to show what you're claiming.

    See Chapter 2 of:

    40 murders a year involving firearms doesn't reflect the world you're
    telling me I live in.
    William Black, May 19, 2009
  5. Shawn Hirn

    whisky-dave Guest

    In which way worse.
    There are also more people now than before the ban.
    More people die of AIDS since the ban.

    That's the problem when you make something illegal.
    Make chewing gum illegal then you'll end up with far more criminals
    than you did before the 'ban' on chewing gum.
    whisky-dave, May 19, 2009
  6. Shawn Hirn

    whisky-dave Guest

    I know where there is a gun shop, but it's not exactly on every street
    that's the point.
    yes, and I donl;t see how letting everyone have a gun as a human
    right will imporve that.

    Then prove it.
    The government are there to massage all statistics from those found guilty
    pissing in the streets to gun crime expense accounts.
    Not to sure that's true but is it really relevant.
    Why is that then if guns are so easy to get.
    I can understadn that, same as killing people in computer games isn;t the
    grand theft auto anyone.
    whisky-dave, May 19, 2009
  7. Shawn Hirn

    J. Clarke Guest

    There's not a gun shop on every street corner in the US either. But that's
    beside the point. One doesn't buy black market items at a shop.
    Nobody has claimed that it would. The point is that it's not preventing
    anybody who wants one badly enough from having one.
    Doesn't mean that they aren't massaged to show what the government wants
    them to show.
    Well, if they lie habitually and you're relying on their statistics for
    decision making about government policy it is.
    Because using a black market gun at a gun club is likely to get you
    You want to go on a plane ride with a pilot whose only previous experience
    was computer simulation?
    J. Clarke, May 19, 2009
  8. Shawn Hirn

    Chris H Guest

    More people carrying and waving around guns. Most shots fired don't hit
    the intended target.
    The number of guns is going up faster than the population is going up
    You are clearly not interested in a sensible discussion

    LEGAL guns were banned. They were all licensed and known about. They
    were removed.

    The number of illegal guns has risen dramatically. Many of the illegal
    guns were never legal fro private ownership in the first place.
    Chris H, May 19, 2009
  9. Shawn Hirn

    Chris H Guest

    What point?
    It won't they are illegal guns held illegally and generally used for
    criminal purposes.

    These guns need to be removed. They have nothing to do with the legally
    owned guns that were held in the UK

    Self defence is VERY rarely a justification for a fire arm in the UK.

    You said the make you safer.. You explain how that is and I will show
    you the flaw in the argument.
    You appear to be a complete idiot. The only guns you can use in gun
    clubs are legal guns.

    You clearly have absolutely no idea bout the use of legal and illegal
    guns in the UK
    Most certainly not. I would ban lazer quest and probably paint-ball too.
    Both tell people that shooting people is fun and painless
    Chris H, May 19, 2009
  10. Shawn Hirn

    whisky-dave Guest

    But if there's more guns being waved around isn;t that because there are
    more guns in circulation.
    I guess that depends on how you count.

    As soon as you make something illegal then you have more people breaking the
    So now you're claiming that there are less guns in circualtion when you ban
    them ???
    I'm not sure what you're proving here.
    Yes well that's obvious.
    Yes most important from eastern Europe last I heard.
    whisky-dave, May 22, 2009
  11. Shawn Hirn

    Chris H Guest

    Exactly so. More guns in circulation does not lead to more killings or
    even more reported crime. Apart from the crime of actually owning an
    illegal gun many are just carried and "waved about " like expensive
    cameras, jewellery or cars. As status symbols.

    Many don't get fired. Many that do don't hit the target and for 99.5% of
    inter gang stuff never get reported. Most times when people are
    threatened with guns in some 'hoods no one reports it.

    So things are worse no matter what the massaged "reported crime" figures
    It was not suddenly made illegal. NOTHING changed with the new gun laws.
    Certain types of gun any full bore pistols, pump shot guns and self
    loading shot guns with more than 3 rounds were made illegal to own.

    Therefore as all the legal ones were individually registered by serial
    number to their owners they were simply collected.
    That when the legal guns were collected the number of guns in the UK
    (other than police /military etc) went down by about 10% since then the
    number has risen dramatically. The majority are guns of types that were
    never legal in the first place.

    So removing the legally held guns in the UK has had absolutely ZERO
    effect on gun crime. It has put people put of work and destroyed
    businesses to pander to a hyped up and irrational fear.

    Similar is happening with photography now under the guise of terrorism
    That is the case as we have had an influx of criminals from there
    running drugs and prostitution. Eastern Europe (the Balkans) has been
    having a civil war for some time so their business methods are a bit
    different :)
    Chris H, May 22, 2009
  12. Shawn Hirn

    whisky-dave Guest

    No but it's a good starting point.
    My ex flatmate use to scire he drugs via those that were attending
    for drug rehab, they knoew the dealers and the best deals.
    Same with under the counter sex mags, it's easier to make contacts in such
    adn the people that frequent them.
    That doesn't;t mean those selling legal stuff will sell you the illegal
    When you need anything best to go where like minded people are likely to

    Depends on how badly they want them.
    We don;t have that attitude with nuclear weapons, oh we can;t stop Russia
    from getting them so we'll let Iran, Iraq, Somalia etc...have them and any
    country. For some reason those equipment/chemicals are restricted,
    but some still get them, but that's virtually always the case.
    Then you wouldn't use one at a gun club would you.
    What has that got to do with it, but if I was hiring a gunman I'd obviously
    prefer someone that can obtain a suitable weapon for what I'm hiring him
    I assume someone trained at a gun club could well be a better shot than
    off the street with a black market weapon.
    whisky-dave, May 22, 2009
  13. Shawn Hirn

    Chris H Guest

    It is not the same for guns in the UK. If you go to a UK gun shop
    (when the still existed) and asked for an illegal gun they would more
    than likely pass on you description to the police probably with the
    shops CCTV tape

    Guns however come from the same places you get your drugs and other
    stolen or illegal stuff.

    By your logic there should be a crowd of people dealing and selling guns
    on the corner next to the police station

    You are equating hand guns and nuclear weapons!!! Completely different
    business all together.

    How would you know what a suitable weapon was? One of the best assassins
    of the 1970's used a .22 pistol.
    Why do you assume that. Some one who spent a life time doing .22 target
    shooting may never have fired anywhere but on an indoor range under
    competition conditions. Never out side or a moving target or under any
    form of stress situation.

    You need the right sort of training or are you suggesting a butcher
    would make a good surgeon.
    Chris H, May 22, 2009
  14. Shawn Hirn

    whisky-dave Guest

    Ever heard of advertising, you know i never thought of eating a lump of
    beef with cheese and lettuce in a bun before I saw McDonalds /wimpy etc..
    if something is on every street it becomes a way of life, and acceptable
    littering in the street, you see others do it it makes it acceptable.
    It's all about conditioning.
    Seeing women on the beech in swim suits is not exactly unusually,
    seeing them walk through a city street dressed the same is unusually why ?

    So how will you remove them, by making them legal ?
    Not until they get in to teh wrong hands.
    yes I knew a girl whiose father was ion a gun club and she learnet to
    shoot by the age of 14. Trouble was one night someone broke in to the club
    took one of those legal guns and shot the bloke who was sleeping with his
    The bloke was killed by a LEGAL gun.
    Ideally the guns should have been stored safely away or more safely than
    they were.
    This was in the UK about 20 years ago.
    Trouble is it's not only illegal guns that kill.
    I can understand that, well when was the last wild bear recordeed in
    Britain 15th century wasn't it. I can;t realyl think of any justification
    for a fire
    arm in the UK other than for 'fun'.
    I'd like a tasser for the same reasons.
    I guess there's some justification for a carrying a knife in the UK too.

    As for the USA well it's thier right to bear arms or something.
    It's part of their culture and law and they are also far more likeliy to be
    attacked by
    bears of course.

    See the number of people killed in say the USA and compare that per head of
    population. Yes and I know the theory that says if everyone is armed then
    anyone shooting another will be shot themselves.

    yes so....
    Well you haven't proved you know much more.
    There's a pub near me that has bullet holes in the walls in the toilet
    it was on the news a couple of years ago when a youth was killed.
    As I've said I know a girl that was 14 and learnt how to shoot.
    A friend of mine has been shot at by Israeli soldiers but I guess as it was
    a legal
    gun it was OK.
    I do not believe that just because a gun is legal it can't do any harm
    to an innocent person.
    whisky-dave, May 22, 2009
  15. Shawn Hirn

    whisky-dave Guest

    So have as many guns as you like provided you never allow a PERSON behind

    And that is true whether or not the gun is legal or illegal the gun doesn't
    Guns have no particular feeling about who or what they are aimed at.

    The only other difference between the two is that legal guns are more likely
    function properly and be better looked after. Then there's the guns that
    been altered e.g sawn off shotguns.
    whisky-dave, May 22, 2009
  16. Shawn Hirn

    whisky-dave Guest

    And do you think the more camera that are about means that there's a
    that more pictures are taken. As with cars do you think there's a link
    the number of cars and teh number of people in a given area.
    Do yuo think there's more cars in the USA than there were 50 years ago ?
    So you'll never know just how many crimes a gun has been used in.
    I would have thought knives are cheaper to buy than guns evening the USA
    and I'd think a banana is even cheaper, so why bother threatening anyone
    with a gun
    if it's not going to be fired or a knife if it's not going to be used,
    why not just buy a banana and use that.
    Yep, and I'd say it's far more likely someone commiting a crime (seriouis
    that they'd choose a gun rather than a knife or a banana but why ?
    Do people worry more when confronted by a criminal wielding a gun, knife or
    banana ?

    The why do you refer to them as NEW laws if nothing changed.
    Sounds like a change in the law. So I'm guessing that anyone that had
    one of those guns and didn't dispose or license them before midnight on
    the day the NEW law was brought in thjen that gun at 1 second after
    midnight was illegal, or are you saying nothing happened with the change in
    Makes me wonder why they changed it.
    And what was the aim of that ?
    To give them a better life, a holiday maybe.

    The number know about obviously.
    So why do you think that is.
    well of course not if you choose only to remove legal guns.
    It's be like raiding my kitchen would stop knife crime.
    They can say that about nuclear weapons.
    you mean the rise in the number of P&S camera has resulted in the rise in
    I think the rise in the no. of cameras has given rise to the number of
    camera stolen.
    it's particularly noticeable with mobile phones too.
    In the UK that was one of the rising crimes, but parents were giving their
    kids mobiles
    so if they got in trouble they could phone the police or phone home.
    Also far more people got killed via accidents as mobile phone numbers rose.
    People were safer because they could phone an ambulance should they fall
    get mugged or anything else, but MORE people had accident due to using a
    mobile phone
    than were saved by them.
    Gangs have been importing them from eastern Europe.
    Gun culture has come top teh UK partly via ganstar rap.

    There are more guns made now for 'peace',
    thre's also more interest in guns than there was.
    I've heard in the USA you can get a sub machine gun for self defence.
    In the UK self defence meant going for a few Judo lessons.

    Strange they use illegal guns then isn't it, why not use totally legal
    bananas ;-)
    or knives perhaps.
    whisky-dave, May 22, 2009
  17. Shawn Hirn

    whisky-dave Guest

    They also tend not to kill or injure people.
    Well it could be both if they are gun collectors.
    But it seems that most criminals aren't gun collectors any more than they
    are stamp
    collectors, they just want it for self defence against the other drug
    who also wants one for self defence. The more that want them the higher the
    in suplying them. Seems a little staraneg if we know they don;t intend to
    use them.

    Sometimes you have to find out why something is illegal first.

    making them in particular illegal probably little, but that would only work
    if no one was ever killed or injured with a legal gun.
    We all know of the innocent man that was killed by police using a legal gun
    of theirs
    because they thought he had a bomb.
    I know of a situation were a man was killed after someone broke into a gun
    stole a gun and killed with it. So making those guns illegal would have
    saved lives.

    I don't think so. Last I heard was it was the way the stats are produced.
    But I'm UK and I'm pretty sure we have less murders than most states in the

    They have their own agendas just like gun owners do.
    They wish to keep their toys as much as anyone else.
    whisky-dave, May 22, 2009
  18. Shawn Hirn

    Chris H Guest

    That is not the case.
    That is the problem . Guns are being carried as status symbols. Not like
    the old days when the officer came home from war and put it in a draw
    and it is not see again till they clear the house after he dies.
    The police on the streets.
    Not at all. However there are a LOT more armed police now.
    How so? All the legal guns that were made illegal to own were ALL
    known about. In the UK every legal gun was registered to an owner they
    had a complete list of all the legal guns and who owned them and where
    they were kept. None of the legal guns became illegal as they were all
    handed in to the police.
    Nothing at all bar putting many legal businesses in the gun trade out
    of business.
    This has nothing to do with the UK where the culture is very different.
    In the UK it was legal to own but not carry a fire arm (Except to and
    from the range). Using a private firearm for self defence was not in the
    UK culture.
    Quite so.

    In much the same way that it is now very suspicious for any one to
    photograph a child in the street, policeman, police station, teenagers
    committing vandalism etc
    Chris H, May 22, 2009
  19. Shawn Hirn

    Chris H Guest

    The new laws only affected the legally registered guns. These were not
    used in crimes. They had no effect one way or the other on gun crime in
    the UK
    They were ALL licensed by serial number to individuals and the police
    knew who had every legal gun and where they were stored.
    It removed the legally held guns. That is all.
    Good question.
    Exactly. It was pointless from a crime prevention stand point but the
    public had been whipped up into an anti gun frenzy
    Certainly not
    I agree... though less so that for mobile phones.
    Actually I suspect as many phones were lost as stolen.... If you have
    kids you will know what I mean.
    If you take into account the number of car accidents caused by drivers
    using phones whilst driving I would agree.

    Mainly for their own use
    BAN RAP!!!!
    Exactly so
    Chris H, May 22, 2009
  20. I don't suppose that there's any chance of seeing any evidence of that?

    How on earth would the police think that anyway? They're not arresting more
    people for carrying firearms. You're not saying they allow it to go on are

    As criminal deaths from firearms are dropping it's reasonable to suppose
    that the number of firearms being carried is also dropping.
    William Black, May 22, 2009
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