Rules of Conduct for Microsoft Newsgroups

Discussion in 'MCSE' started by John Eddy [MSFT], May 27, 2004.

  1. John Eddy [MSFT]

    Ken Briscoe Guest

    Hopefully. A sleepy admin is a bad admin.
    Just cuz he works for MS doesn't make him the (an!) enemy. While I'd love to
    be able to say "sapsucker" all day, I understand that it can be viewed as an
    out of line attack. I don't agree with that, but hey, I don't have to. It's
    not my newsgroup, I'm not in charge. But John seems to be a decent guy doing
    his job, and while he's here, there are more than a few of us who'd like to
    pick his brain about the inner workings of MS, in regards to how they deal
    with tctips complaints, spammers in NGs, and dumpers in general. While none
    of us expect John to know all the answers, he can undoubtedly help us out at
    least a little. So, if John can be of at least a little help, I wouldn't be
    so quick to call him the enemy.

    My .02 ($4.75 CAN)



    --


    KB - MCNGP "silent thug" #26

    first initial last name AT hotmail DOT com
     
    Ken Briscoe, Jun 2, 2004
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  2. No, I'm not kidding you. I'm not going to set up any rules of conduct that
    only apply directly to, what, 5 newsgroups? The rules of conduct are for
    the entire microsoft.public.* heirarchy.

    John Eddy
    Microsoft Newsgroups Administrator
     
    John Eddy [MSFT], Jun 2, 2004
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  3. Sleep bad. But the admin side does keep me busy. I try to keep up on this
    group, but I do have job duties. I'm responding now while catching up on my
    Tivo. You're more than welcome to ping me in email if there's something
    urgent here that needs my attention. I think I'm down to some 20 posts that
    I had planned on replying to.

    John Eddy
    Microsoft Newsgroups Administrator
     
    John Eddy [MSFT], Jun 2, 2004
  4. Yes, Message-ID. I'm going to remove posts, and to remove the posts, I need
    the Message-ID. I prefer to get the entire message with the header, just
    because I like to see all the information before I remove it.
    A new version of the web based newsreader is coming soon, and it will
    require a passport account to post, and the IP address of the original
    poster will be included in the header.

    John Eddy
    Microsoft Newsgroups Administrator
     
    John Eddy [MSFT], Jun 2, 2004
  5. John Eddy [MSFT]

    name Guest

    gee thanx. but what if we don't want to have a passport account? are we
    going to be denied access to this wonderful community of experts?
     
    name, Jun 2, 2004
  6. John Eddy [MSFT]

    Network Guru Guest

    Seems logical to me.
     
    Network Guru, Jun 2, 2004
  7. I wasn't picking anyone by name, in fact, I hardly noticed who wrote what I
    copied. And, for what its worth, 'he attacked first' isn't a valid excuse
    to skip the rules of conduct. Back when I was an MVP Lead, I focused on a
    few particular newsgroups and I saw people flame MVPs left and right and
    MVPs *not* attack back.
    Would love to, but it is *really* not my job. I work in a completely
    different part of the company. I've been trying to get as much information
    as I can from the Training/Certification folks, and I've been putting it in
    whatever other thread I'm replying to about it, but this is my job. If you
    don't want to report Message-IDs to me for removal, that's your decision.
    I'm not requiring you to do so, and, realistically, I can't guarantee that
    everything you request be removed gets removed.
    I don't know where I said one was more important than the others. I merely
    gave the rules of conduct and terms of service.
    Umm, no. The Rules of Conduct applies to everyone. You, MVPs, regular
    users. Rather than flaming them, why not teach them. I'm sure a common
    response is going to be 'Because there is just so many of them, continually
    asking the same question over and over and over...' I did some 7 years
    doing phone support and working newsgroups, answering questions. Believe
    me, I saw the same questions over and over and over. When it got to much,
    I'd walk away. I understand that this is USENET. So, if you want to heckle
    and all, there are the alt groups. There are the rec groups. Go do it
    there.
    Tell you what. We have an 'official' complaint process here at Microsoft.
    Drop me an email with your complaints, be as explicit and long winded as you
    want, and I'll put it into that process. If you as a group want to pick one
    person to be your 'spokesperson,' sit down and do it and have whoever mail
    me.

    John Eddy
    Microsoft Newsgroups Administrator
     
    John Eddy [MSFT], Jun 2, 2004
  8. If you want to use the web based interface, yes.

    John Eddy
    Microsoft Newsgroups Administrator
     
    John Eddy [MSFT], Jun 2, 2004
  9. No, you can still post from your own ISP as you are doing now.
    Only Webnews (the web based newsreader) will require the use of a Passport
    for posting.

    --
    Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
    Associate Expert
    Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
    Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
    http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
     
    Larry Samuels, Jun 2, 2004
  10. John Eddy [MSFT]

    Rowdy Yates Guest

    sweet! but how it that going to cut down on spammerz, dumperz posting junk
    around here?

    or are we just trying to eliminate anony. posters? personally, the anons'
    aren't as big a problem as the spamerz/dumperz.

    also, can't the anons' just start using anon. proxy servers to hide which
    ISP they are posting/flaming from? won't that make the whole excersize a
    waster effort?

    Rowdy Yates, MCSE
     
    Rowdy Yates, Jun 2, 2004
  11. Hi Rowdy,

    With the IP included they can be traced--no more free anonymizer service for
    the spammers and no more spoofing of other posters without fear of being
    caught through Webnews.

    In other words, it makes the poster accountable for their actions.

    --
    Larry Samuels MS-MVP (Windows-Shell/User)
    Associate Expert
    Expert Zone - www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone
    Unofficial FAQ for Windows Server 2003 at
    http://pelos.us/SERVER.htm
     
    Larry Samuels, Jun 2, 2004
  12. As I stated elsewhere, I'm not looking to add Rules of Conduct that would
    only be applicable to less than 1% of the microsoft.public.* heirarchy.
    The reason I asked for definition of what a spammer is is because 'spam' on
    USENET != spam in email. I wanted to know what were were talking about
    before I talk about anything.

    For instance, take a legitimate training company, like, umm... it has been
    so long, I don't remember the names of them. Drake? Are they still a
    training company, or am I just in the mood for Drake's Cakes and it is
    showing? Well, heck, lets say it is Drake. If a Drake representative
    posted to this group that they were offering a 25% off discount for one of
    their MCSE training exams, is that spam? Many would say yes. However, the
    topic of the post is on-topic for this group, in the same way that a post
    advertising a 1984 Renault Le Car is not.

    For reference sake, spam on USENET is defined by a post of substantially
    similar content posted individually to a number of newsgroups (that number
    being the Breidbart Index and slightly variable.)

    Ah, this is where I mentioned piracy. Which was in response to someone else
    listing it out. Piracy is listed in the Terms of Use when it says 'Upload,
    or otherwise make available, files that contain images, photographs,
    software or other material protected by intellectual property laws,
    including, by way of example, and not as limitation, copyright or trademark
    laws (or by rights of privacy or publicity) unless you own or control the
    rights thereto or have received all necessary consent to do the same.'

    And let me make one thing clear, I don't care *WHOSE* software is being
    pirated. If someone is offering Transcender tests, Microsoft Windows or
    Adobe Photoshop up, I want to know about it so I can remove that post and
    report the person to whichever company he needs to be reported to. This
    isn't about me trying to protect Microsoft's IP. This is about me trying to
    enforce the Terms of Use.
    Strictly speaking because my particular job didn't exist up until about 5
    months ago. We may have had an administrator whose job it is to run the
    server (in fact, we still have that person and he's been running these
    servers as well as a number of other servers) but we haven't had a dedicated
    Newsgroup Administrator before.
    Sorry, I don't do impressions.

    Seriously, tho, although I feel like I'm repeating myself, my job isn't to
    enforce the value of the certs, one of my jobs is to enforce the Rules of
    Conduct and Terms of Use.

    John Eddy
    Microsoft Newsgroups Administrator
     
    John Eddy [MSFT], Jun 2, 2004
  13. Man, I'll NEVER use all 16K of RAM. That's a LOT of RAM!

    --
    Fris "I'd have to write a REALLY BIG program!" bee®, MCNGP #13

    The MCNGP Team - We're here to help!
    http://www.mcngp.tk

    Certaholics
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
     
    =?iso-8859-1?Q?Frisbee=AE?=, Jun 2, 2004
  14. Two words, my friend: Disc Golf

    --
    Fris "The chicks dig it" bee®, MCNGP #13

    The MCNGP Team - We're here to help!
    http://www.mcngp.tk

    Certaholics
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
     
    =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE?=, Jun 2, 2004
  15. I've read that in Japan (where golf is even more of a major pass-time than
    here) golfers buy hole-in-one insurance, since it is custom for the person
    who shoots an ace to buy extravagent gifts for the others in his party.
    Literally thousands of dollars' worth.

    --
    Fris "Oh, &*(^ I shot a hole-in-one!" bee®, MCNGP #13

    The MCNGP Team - We're here to help!
    http://www.mcngp.tk

    Certaholics
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/certaholics
     
    =?Windows-1252?Q?Frisbee=AE?=, Jun 2, 2004
  16. John Eddy [MSFT]

    Consultant Guest

    no more free for now. you know as well as i do there are ways around
    everything.

     
    Consultant, Jun 2, 2004
  17. John Eddy [MSFT]

    Brat Guest

    --
    Sue MCNGP #69
    Proud member since April 8, 2002
    I always send the complete header info and message content but the header
    info is (almost) always blocked by the anonymous network and has an IP
    address in the 10 network

    YES!!! Now THAT is what I am talking about... it is certainly about time
     
    Brat, Jun 2, 2004
  18. John Eddy [MSFT]

    Jtyc Guest

    Tell you what. We have an 'official' complaint process here at Microsoft.
    Yes, I have a complaint. I want an office like all you Microsofties.
     
    Jtyc, Jun 2, 2004
  19. John Eddy [MSFT]

    Ken Briscoe Guest

    the best?
     
    Ken Briscoe, Jun 2, 2004
  20. spammerz will find a way around it.
     
    Saladin the Diseased, Jun 2, 2004
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