router

Discussion in 'Computer Security' started by DaveINM, Jun 12, 2004.

  1. Sorry. Your $400 box only serves 10 users.
     
    Micheal Robert Zium, Jun 15, 2004
    #21
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  2. Not even close.
     
    Micheal Robert Zium, Jun 15, 2004
    #22
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  3. True. But that would include the SOHO as well. Come to think of it,
    that goes for them all.
    You know of a firewall that is?
    That makes no sense.
    Very subjective. Except for the power consumption, which is usually
    negligible.
    Ok.
     
    Micheal Robert Zium, Jun 15, 2004
    #23
  4. there's several things wrong with your train of thought. first and
    foremost, while you're running linux as a firewall, you can also run it
    as an independent _anything_ box... such as a DNS machine, an smtp
    server, an IDS, hell, you can use it as a workstation... you cannot do
    that with ANY cisco firewall's, routers, etc.



    nor did i say that it was, in fact, you pretty much agreed with my
    opinion about cisco.


    and you agreed with one of my other posts in this thread with the above.
    i never said linux was easy for the untrained person, in fact, i said
    just the opposite.




    i agree, it can be, and it is. however, it's not overall, more flexible.


    again, i agree with that. with linux, you need to add just about
    everything.... with FreeBSD, it's a simple kernel build.
    only if you don't know how. however, i am basing my opinion on freebsd,
    which is very easy for me to setup, run, maintain, update and it's
    extremely cheap. free. totally free. all i need to do is go to
    www.compgeeks.com, spend $50.00 to $100.00 on real hardware (or use a
    system that's being replaced), which in turn, will give me more
    flexibility in the home or small office LAN environment than ANY router
    or firewall on the market. period. my freebsd firewall is running on a
    pentium 200 machine with a 1gig harddrive and 32mb of ram. you can damn
    near pick one of those up for $10.00 on ebay.

    the only thing they offer is routing and firewalling (and a couple with
    IDS). a *nix firewall can offer that and just about anything else you
    can imagine.





    --
    Colonel Flagg
    http://www.internetwarzone.org/

    Privacy at a click:
    http://www.cotse.net

    Q: How many Bill Gates does it take to change a lightbulb?
    A: None, he just defines Darkness? as the new industry standard..."

    "...I see stupid people."
     
    Colonel Flagg, Jun 15, 2004
    #24
  5. DaveINM

    Jim Watt Guest

    Then you basically agree with me that for a home user who is not
    technically inclined and wants to share internet around a handful
    of Windows boxes that a small cheap appliance type router - which
    is available for around $50 is the solution.

    Theres also the cosideration of noise - PC's generally have fans
    and cheap machines are generally noisy - the current IBM range
    is amazinly quiet, which is why I am using one.

    Although your electricity cost might be lower than mine its around $8
    per month for me to run a computer continuously, excluding the
    airconditioning.
     
    Jim Watt, Jun 15, 2004
    #25
  6. DaveINM

    ParrotRob Guest

    ParrotRob, Jun 15, 2004
    #26
  7. DaveINM

    Leythos Guest

    You can purchase additional licenses for the unit, blocks of 25.

    And you said Flexible - not cost, the SOHO6tc is more flexible, unless
    you start going outside the firewall features.
     
    Leythos, Jun 15, 2004
    #27
  8. DaveINM

    Leythos Guest

    So, what features, be specific, does your BSD box offer than the major
    appliances doesn't offer?
     
    Leythos, Jun 15, 2004
    #28
  9. Jim,

    You raise an interesting point, but it is bigger in scope than
    just the firewall. Many people disable power management on
    their PCs. This is because of the long delay in reactification of
    the system from power saving mode. Also, power profiles are rarely
    considered in purchasing decisions. It may be helpful to go
    through some simple math.

    A PC that consumes 200 watts:

    200 Watts/hour * 24 hours/day * 30 days/month = 144 Kilowatts/month
    144 Kilowatts/month * 8 cents/kilowatt = $ 11.52 /month.

    So... there are several points here:
    A. Disabling power management can drive up the cost of operation
    significantly.
    B. When purchasing PCs, consider the power consumption in the
    purchasing decision process. Some PCs use 200 or 300 watts of
    power, while others use as little as 250 milliwatts.
    C. If you're not using a system, consider turning it off.
    D. Monitors come with different capabilities. Some have power saving
    modes. This should also be considered when making purchases. Also
    be sure that the power saving is properly getting triggered by the
    system.
    E. Some computer peripherals also have power management capabilities
    and could reduce power consumption.
    F. One might consider consolidation of system services, if possible,
    in order to reduce the number of systems and the total power
    consumption. This affects total power consumption as well as
    noise and thermal considerations.

    If you have a bunch of PCs, in your house, you may be able to
    use power management techniques to reduce your power consumption
    and reduce your total cost of operation.

    Thank you Jim, for reminding us that power conservation is worthy
    of consideration in our daily lives. I agree that if all one needs is
    a simple firewall/NAT and does not envision expansion of services
    then a low power hardware firewall is a reasonable solution.
    If one does envision expansion of services then a more complex system
    may be more reasonable and cost effective. If expansion is in the cards,
    then
    conservation by power management, purchasing decision processes, and
    consolidation of services would be a logical step towards optimal power
    conservation.

    Enjoy,
    Mangled&Munged
     
    Mangled&Munged, Jun 15, 2004
    #29


  10. Basically, I stated early on in this thread that's it's much easier for
    the computer stupid to us an appliance such as a linksys/dlink router
    than it is to use a FreeBSD or Linux firewall.... just because it's
    easier, doesn't mean it's better. In my opinion, it's not.

    As for fan noise, I have a NOC in the closet of my house, which is
    enclosed and air conditioned.

    --
    Colonel Flagg
    http://www.internetwarzone.org/

    Privacy at a click:
    http://www.cotse.net

    Q: How many Bill Gates does it take to change a lightbulb?
    A: None, he just defines Darkness? as the new industry standard..."

    "...I see stupid people."
     
    Colonel Flagg, Jun 15, 2004
    #30
  11. I have, over and over, stated the other features... evidently, you're
    either too stupid or too lazy to read.



    --
    Colonel Flagg
    http://www.internetwarzone.org/

    Privacy at a click:
    http://www.cotse.net

    Q: How many Bill Gates does it take to change a lightbulb?
    A: None, he just defines Darkness? as the new industry standard..."

    "...I see stupid people."
     
    Colonel Flagg, Jun 15, 2004
    #31
  12. DaveINM

    Leythos Guest

    Nope, just not seen you state anything that I can't get in an appliance
    from one of the major vendors, just wondering what those features are.
     
    Leythos, Jun 15, 2004
    #32
  13. DaveINM

    Jim Watt Guest

    I've got one of those too, whats your electricity bill like ...

    The one for my satellite headend is scary.
     
    Jim Watt, Jun 16, 2004
    #33
  14. DaveINM

    Leythos Guest

    I have two routers, two firewalls, and about 12 servers not even going
    to count the workstations and switches - just in my home. I've seen my
    electric bill jump about $30/month since setting up a development area
    here.
     
    Leythos, Jun 16, 2004
    #34
  15. Whoops. Just went over the $400 mark.
    Ummmm...you may want to re-read. I'm pretty sure there was a $400
    claim there somewhere. Also, how is it more flexible?
     
    Micheal Robert Zium, Jun 16, 2004
    #35
  16. Micheal Robert Zium, Jun 16, 2004
    #36

  17. I don't pay attention to the electric bill. I just pay it and go on.



    --
    Colonel Flagg
    http://www.internetwarzone.org/

    Privacy at a click:
    http://www.cotse.net

    Q: How many Bill Gates does it take to change a lightbulb?
    A: None, he just defines Darkness? as the new industry standard..."

    "...I see stupid people."
     
    Colonel Flagg, Jun 16, 2004
    #37

  18. ok, so get an appliance that works as a workstation, runs KDE and The
    Gimp plus Open Office, and by the way, spend $50.00 for it.





    --
    Colonel Flagg
    http://www.internetwarzone.org/

    Privacy at a click:
    http://www.cotse.net

    Q: How many Bill Gates does it take to change a lightbulb?
    A: None, he just defines Darkness? as the new industry standard..."

    "...I see stupid people."
     
    Colonel Flagg, Jun 16, 2004
    #38
  19. What are you going to run the Linux on? PC hardware? Linux is great but
    it's only has good as the hardware you are using. I've had too many hard
    drives crash, too many power supplies go kaput to put my trust in PC
    hardware. Given the option I'll take an appliance over a PC any day.
     
    Richard R. Field, Jun 16, 2004
    #39
  20. A better argument (based on the assumption that running anything other than
    firewall software on a firewall is A Bad Idea(tm)), is that a generic[1]
    *nix box can be more versatile, by including things like DMZ routing
    functions.

    Personally, I prefer two hardware routers[2], but each to their own.. in my
    case, I found it less trouble (and taking up less power & space) than my
    original Linux-based jobbies. Oh, and the FTP configuration was a complete
    bitch to get working, back in 1999 or so. The Netgear worked out-of-the-box.

    --

    A thoroughly neutral Hairy One Kenobi

    Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
    reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
    in the first place. So there!

    [1] i.e. a PC/pizza[3] style of box running *nix, as opposed to a Zyxel
    hardware firewall running *nix under-the-bonnet [hood]

    [2] While it's unlikely that my Zyxel-based Netgear router or a generic *nix
    router would be compromised, a three-NIC ITX-based router - if compromised -
    would open up both the "DMZ" and the private LAN.

    [3] I've an old Sparc Ultra that might be available to a good home.. at the
    moment, it's just taking up space.
     
    Hairy One Kenobi, Jun 16, 2004
    #40
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