Router connects to Internet all on its own

Discussion in 'Home Networking' started by TA, Dec 5, 2004.

  1. TA

    TA Guest

    My Vigor 260Gi ISDN/ADSL router connects to the internet without me ever
    doing anything on the PC. Can this be correct?

    I will only have to accidentally leave it on a few times and my 80 hours
    allowance will have gone.
     
    TA, Dec 5, 2004
    #1
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  2. TA

    phoenix Guest

    That's what your router is supposed to do, ADSL is an 'always-on'
    connection. What 80 hours allowance are you talking about?

    Regards

    Bill
     
    phoenix, Dec 5, 2004
    #2
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  3. But that's how a router is *supposed* to work. ADSL (unlike dial-up or ISDN)
    is "always on": you have a permanent connection between the router and your
    ISP. If you had a USB ADSL modem (which is suitable for a maximum of one
    PC), you'd connect as and when you needed it, using a dial-up connection as
    if you were using a 56K modem, but the big advantage of a router is that the
    connection is always there and doesn't need to be established as and when
    you need it.

    I've never heard of an ISP imposing connection-time limits in ADSL (it's a
    slightly ludicrous concept, given that ADSL is always on). Usually they
    impose bandwidth limits - ie the maximum amount of data that you are allowed
    to download each month.
     
    Martin Underwood, Dec 5, 2004
    #3
  4. TA

    Graham Guest



    Judging from the email address you are with 4Dinternet
    I have looked in their T&C

    http://www.4dinternet.co.uk/terms.asp

    and found this which I suppose is what you are talking about

    1) ALL 64K SERVICES WILL BE RESTRICTED TO 160 HOURS PER MONTH.
    2) ALL 'LITE' SERVICES WILL BE RESTRICTED TO 80 HOURS PER MONTH.
    3) ALL BUSINESS SERVICES WILL BE RESTRICTED TO 200 HOURS PER MONTH.

    However AFAICS none of their ADSL offerings are described as 'Light'
    Only "4D SurfAccess Lite" gets that title which is dialup.

    AFAIK there is no time cap on any UK ADSL product so stop worrying.


    The only thing that is a bit unclear is how do they reconcile the 200 hrs
    per month for business services with their three "ADSL at Work" services. I
    suspect even these don't qualify for the restriction, and the wording is
    intended to restrict ISDN connection times.
     
    Graham, Dec 5, 2004
    #4
  5. TA

    TA Guest


    I'm not on ADSL I'm on ISDN
     
    TA, Dec 5, 2004
    #5
  6. TA

    Richard H Guest

    If you are on IDSN you don't have a router as such, but that doesn't really
    matter in this case. Is the PC on at the time is dials up?? If so I suspect
    you have a programme on your machine requesting internet access. This could
    be legit, or it could be something like a 'rouge dialer'.
     
    Richard H, Dec 5, 2004
    #6
  7. Aha! Groan. You should have made that clear. In this case you've just got a
    pure-and-simple modem, not a router.

    In this case, yes, it should not be permanently connected and you may have a
    limit imposed on the amount of time that you can be connected per month.

    Check for malware (eg using AdAware, www.lavasoft.de) that may be dialling
    up when you're not expecting it. Set the "Connect automatically" attribute
    for the dialler to "no" (ie, prompt for user name and password) so that even
    if something is triggering the dialler itself, it will not actually connect
    unless you press "OK".
     
    Martin Underwood, Dec 5, 2004
    #7
  8. From later posts: you are using ISDN, not ADSL.

    This was a very common problem before ADSL, with both ISDN and
    straightforward dialup equipment (I used a router with a serial port
    connected to an ordinary modem using a telephone line; Zyxel Prestige
    100WH I think). Basically, this setup by design connects to the Internet
    automatically whenever any machine on the network tries to access an
    external address, and drops the line after a specified period without
    Internet traffic; with ISDN this gives virtual always-on connection
    without running up phone bills (or, with a Freefone number, without
    using up your allowance).

    However, things go on in a network which request Internet access for no
    reason worth a phone call. You find out what they are and block the
    associated ports. Unfortunately I don't remember the details, which are
    all-important. But you should be able to find out with a bit of
    judicious googling. Maybe try WOWN (Google for it).

    Best wishes,
     
    Michael Salem, Dec 5, 2004
    #8
  9. The Draytek Vigor 2600Gi is indeed a router (a very good one) which supports
    both dsl and has a built in ISDN modem to be used as a stand-alone ISDN
    router - or a ADSL Router or a combination of both, ex.. you ca use the ISDN
    connection as a backup for the ADSL if it goes down - In your ISDN
    Connection setup on the router try changing the timeout settings - also make
    sure your DSL connection is disabled as the router may be thinking your DSL
    is down (even if you don't have DSL) and trying to automatically reinstate
    you via ISDN (that is the reason may companies use the Router.

    Bill M.
     
    Bill Middleton, Dec 5, 2004
    #9
  10. fyi. http://www.draytek.co.uk/products/vigor2600g.html

    Bill M.
     
    Bill Middleton, Dec 5, 2004
    #10
  11. TA

    TA Guest

    I did make it clear. If you look at my original posting I said ISDND. It is
    DEFINITELY a router. I use it to connect three PC's to a network and to
    connect all three to the internet, HOWEVER I only have an 80 hour
    allocation, so it seemed odd that it was permanently on. I thought it would
    only make the connection when I tried to access the net and drop the
    connecttion when I left it.
     
    TA, Dec 5, 2004
    #11
  12. TA

    TA Guest


    many thanks, will give it a go. Fortunately for the past few months my ISP
    has had software probs which has left me with unlimited access so this
    hasn't been a problem, but this is due to end any day. HOWEVER we have a new
    Wireless/Satellite broadband provider setting up in the village within the
    next two weeks, so I will have to learn how that works with the router. They
    say there is a charge of £5 for each additional PC (£18 per month for one),
    so how does that work with a router?
     
    TA, Dec 5, 2004
    #12
  13. TA

    Tx2 Guest

    No, he has a Draytek router.
     
    Tx2, Dec 5, 2004
    #13
  14. TA

    Tx2 Guest

    Absolutely. Something is utilising the connection to 'get out' onto the
    internet.

    It could be Spyware or such like. I would suggest a thorough scan or
    your PC not only for viruses, but also spyware and trojans.

    You might also like to install a software firewall on the router as this
    *may* identify whatever it is that is initialising the connection. Even
    if you are unable to eradicate such infection, you can sometimes prevent
    it communicating with the outside world.
    Absolutely. You need to get it sorted.
     
    Tx2, Dec 5, 2004
    #14
  15. TA

    Tx2 Guest

    Gah! I meant install on the PC ... apologies.
     
    Tx2, Dec 5, 2004
    #15
  16. TA

    Bernard Peek Guest

    In message <49330$41b324c1$53f505de$-service.com>, TA
    My sympathies. When I was using ISDN I had a spare PC running the IPCop
    software and acting as a router. I could configure it to dial out only
    during specific intervals, usually off-peak.
     
    Bernard Peek, Dec 5, 2004
    #16
  17. Your original post doesn't actually SAY that you're using IDSN, though
    it's fairly obvious from the context...

    A lot of the responses go too far in looking for malicious causes. All
    sorts of legitimate things can trigger an Internet connection: e.g.,
    Windows trying to update the time very frequently, machines trying to
    keep their DNS information bang up-to-date, printers doing weird things,
    etc. Use the router's log to see why it has dialled on each occasion
    (you'll want the Telnet interface to do this, the browser interface
    won't help).

    A couple of URLs that may help: search Google GROUPS for the following
    QUOTED strings:
    "help with ISDN frequent dial"
    and
    "SBS 2000 continually connecting to the Internet"

    HTH,
     
    Michael Salem, Dec 5, 2004
    #17
  18. I would add this postscript to my previous posting:

    A point that I think a lot of people posting to this thread aren't
    really aware of is that:

    a router with Internet connectivity will automatically, and invisibly,
    try to connect to the Internet (via modem, or ISDN, or ADSL) whenever
    anything connected to the router seems to want to send or receive any
    sort of packet if a connection isn't already made.

    This gives the illusion of an always-on connection without the physical
    need for a permanent connection. It's not at all like a computer with a
    modem attached, where an unexpected attempt to dial is almost always due
    to malware. In the earlier days of ISDN -- before rogue diallers had
    been thought of -- you heard of unexpected bills of 2000 GBP/quarter.

    While it is possible to make things a little less bad by fiddling with
    timeouts, this does not address the underlying problem. When paying for
    calls with a minimum call charge, you could set up the timeout to a bit
    less than one unit; with a free phone connection but a cap on connection
    hours per month, you could set the shortest sensible timeout.

    But it is far better to find out what processes are communicating with
    external addresses, and deal with them.

    Best wishes,
     
    Michael Salem, Dec 6, 2004
    #18
  19. TA

    Tx2 Guest

    [...]

    I think you under-estimate the gathering of knowledge in this group.


    :-/
     
    Tx2, Dec 6, 2004
    #19
  20. TA

    Tx2 Guest

    [...]
    You don't agree that the 'malicious' angle needs to be explored first?

    In the interim period of you checking for printer's doing weird things
    (in 10 years I've never knowingly had a printer try dialling the
    internet?) a virus could be happily sending all sorts of private
    information out across the wires.

    Of course, exploring all avenues is necessary, but these days (and
    remember, we are *not* dealing in the heady days before rogue diallers)
    it is so very 'necessary' to expect worse case scenario.

    It is not clear if the problem started a few months ago from an existing
    configuration, or whether it has always been this way.

    I somewhat strongly disagree with your suggestion that "a lot of the
    responses go too far in looking for malicious causes". A lot of the
    causes are malicious,
     
    Tx2, Dec 6, 2004
    #20
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