Rechargable batteries and information

Discussion in 'UK VOIP' started by john hamiliton, Jun 14, 2010.

  1. john hamiliton

    Graham. Guest

    Why "hybrid" then, usually means a mixture of techniques or technologies, much like this
    random cross-post
     
    Graham., Jun 17, 2010
    #21
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  2. john hamiliton

    Bodincus Guest

    (17/06/10 15:35), Brian Gregory [UK]:
    Seconded. I have a Kodak digital camera that was particularly fussy
    about rechargeable batteries.
    It annoyed me so much I went to the lengths to hack the camera firmware
    and tamper with the low voltage trigger points.
    The camera runs on two AA batteries. The warning trigger point was set
    at 2.78V, and the shutdown point was at 2.50. That means 1.25V per
    battery. I mean, 1.25V!!!
    And - by the way - since when is the voltage of a battery an indication
    of the residual power in it?
    I have lowered the thresholds to 2.5V and 2.2V three years ago, and is
    running fine, even using the flash. Not a corrupted picture, NOTHING.
    In fact, I have the proof the camera manufacturers purposely keep the
    threshold high to sell you their specific (and hugely expensive) custom
    battery packs. I got one to sample it, and the output voltage - fresh
    out of the box - was 3.89V. Almost one volt over the standard.
    All devices that are built to use rechargeable batteries, and declare
    they accept rechargeable batteries in their literature, must be
    engineered and built with a 1.2V per unit target.
    A NiMH battery at 1.0V has a massive amount of energy left in it, so the
    device MUST adapt and accept lower voltages to squeeze every ounce of
    energy out of the battery.
    In the light of the new "green this and that" I would vouch to declare
    illegal any device that doesn't follow this sensible and proper guidelines.
    If a device you buy doesn't use energy efficiently, get your money back
    and let the company know you find their products and standards of
    manufacturing not acceptable, that what I did with Kodak.
    Although you might think "They're a giant, they don't care", I can tell
    you THEY DO. A LOT. they're particularly twitchy in these days if you
    hit the "green" button with customer relations.

    --
    Bodincus - The Y2K Druid
    ************************
    Law 42 on computing:
    Anything that could fail, will break at the worst possible mom%*= [email protected]@
    # Access Violation - Core dumped
    # Kernel Panic
     
    Bodincus, Jun 17, 2010
    #22
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  3. [/QUOTE]
    Marketing. It combines the rechargability of rechargables with
    the long shelf-life of ordinary batteries. That's close enough to
    "hybrid" for a marketroid.

    -- Richard
     
    Richard Tobin, Jun 17, 2010
    #23
  4. john hamiliton

    Max Demian Guest

    If you use alkaline batteries, just keep the 'exhausted' ones and put them
    in something else.

    I find they run a quartz analogue clock for six months.
     
    Max Demian, Jun 17, 2010
    #24
  5. john hamiliton

    Man at B&Q Guest

    Man at B&Q, Jun 18, 2010
    #25
  6. john hamiliton

    Bodincus Guest

    (18/06/10 11:17), Man at B&Q: A) That's for alkaline batteries, not rechargeables, and we know the
    pattern is massively different. Rechargeables have a voltage peak at the
    beginning, then they settle to an average for longer than normal
    batteries, then they fall sharply (sharper than that graphs).

    B) However, that proves my point. The relationship between voltage and
    residual power is non-linear, and the residual power inside the battery
    - whatever type it is - is not related to the voltage between the dipoles.

    So WHY the devices are still using voltage as a value to measure if a
    battery is still delivering the needed power?

    BTW, just curious... what MBQ stand for? MegaBecquerel? ;-)

    --
    Bodincus - The Y2K Druid
    ************************
    Law 42 on computing:
    Anything that could fail, will break at the worst possible mom%*= [email protected]@
    # Access Violation - Core dumped
    # Kernel Panic
     
    Bodincus, Jun 18, 2010
    #26
  7. Correct

    and the residual power inside the battery
    Because it works.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, Jun 18, 2010
    #27
  8. john hamiliton

    Chris Blunt Guest

    What else could they measure?
     
    Chris Blunt, Jun 18, 2010
    #28
  9. john hamiliton

    Terry Casey Guest

    ^^^^^^^^^^

    Man at B&Q?

    or is that too obvious?
     
    Terry Casey, Jun 18, 2010
    #29
  10. weight. E=mc^2 and all that ;-) ;-)
     
    The Natural Philosopher, Jun 18, 2010
    #30
  11. john hamiliton

    Bodincus Guest

    (18/06/10 13:52), Brian Gregory [UK]:
    And a static threshold below which the device spits them out is a
    correct implementation of the non-linear relationship between the
    voltage and the residual power available from a rechargeable cell?

    No, it isn't. It's plain lazy, pitiful and shameful for third millennium
    engineering.

    --
    Bodincus - The Y2K Druid
    ************************
    Law 42 on computing:
    Anything that could fail, will break at the worst possible mom%*= [email protected]@
    # Access Violation - Core dumped
    # Kernel Panic
     
    Bodincus, Jun 18, 2010
    #31
  12. john hamiliton

    Bodincus Guest

    (18/06/10 13:58), Chris Blunt:
    During idle time, small bursts through a fixed resistance circuit to
    measure both voltage (and its drop under load), and current.
    A bit of computation and you can measure how much oomphf the cell has left.
    BTW, I hereby claim Intellectual Property for this idea.
    --
    Bodincus - The Y2K Druid
    ************************
    Law 42 on computing:
    Anything that could fail, will break at the worst possible mom%*= [email protected]@
    # Access Violation - Core dumped
    # Kernel Panic
     
    Bodincus, Jun 18, 2010
    #32
  13. john hamiliton

    Man at B&Q Guest

    Correct.

    Anyone old enough to remember the Man at C&A adverts will understand
    the joke.

    MBQ
     
    Man at B&Q, Jun 18, 2010
    #33
  14. claim away.

    Its nonsense.

    Knowing what current you can draw is meaningless.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, Jun 18, 2010
    #34
  15. yeah. well. no more foolish thatn any other suggestion.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, Jun 18, 2010
    #35
  16. No, they are not.
     
    The Natural Philosopher, Jun 19, 2010
    #36
  17. john hamiliton

    Ken Guest

    No. NiMhs are 1.2 - 1.3 Volts.
     
    Ken, Jun 19, 2010
    #37
  18. john hamiliton

    Chris Blunt Guest

    The additional components required to do that will all add additional
    cost and weight to the device, as well as further draining the
    battery. It doesn't make much sense to unnecessarily put extra load on
    a battery when what you are trying to achieve is to squeeze as much
    life out of it as possible.
     
    Chris Blunt, Jun 20, 2010
    #38
  19. john hamiliton

    Bodincus Guest

    (20/06/10 04:41), Chris Blunt:
    One SMD resistor and a bit more software in the device would add costs?
    You don't know what you're talking about.
    And NO, nobody is trying in the slightest bit to squeeze as much life as
    possible, rather manufacturers are keeping very ample margins to have
    all of the electronics always working largely above tolerance.
    To play it extra safe and not to invest in bettering the components,
    they're forcing consumers to bin single use batteries at 50% capacity.
    Given how toxic and dangerous are batteries, and they're more polluting
    when they're not depleted, this should be addressed seriously, and not
    dismissing any effort to have a better technology with the usual british
    stiff upper lip.
    But what do I know? Bah...
    --
    Bodincus - The Y2K Druid
    ************************
    Law 42 on computing:
    Anything that could fail, will break at the worst possible mom%*= [email protected]@
    # Access Violation - Core dumped
    # Kernel Panic
     
    Bodincus, Jun 21, 2010
    #39
  20. john hamiliton

    Man at B&Q Guest

    Maybe not, but the transistor to switch the resistor in and out and
    the ADC to measure the current might.

    MBQ
     
    Man at B&Q, Jun 22, 2010
    #40
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