Ready to graduate to DSLR

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Freedom55, Sep 17, 2005.

  1. Freedom55

    Skip M Guest

    Fergit it, Stacey, I've been asking him for examples of these images for
    about a year now, and he hasn't responded...
    Skip M, Sep 19, 2005
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  2. Freedom55

    Skip M Guest

    It depends on what you define as "yesteryear." My wife's old Canon EOS10s
    has autobracketing. But bracketing, manually, was available on all the old
    cameras, and you had the choice of how many shots to bracket, an option not
    given to you on any auto program.
    User memory isn't more control, it is less think.
    Histograms are less think, since you don't have to really think about what
    your dynamic range is, both of your scene and your film.
    I'm not saying it isn't good not to have to think about all of these things,
    Skip M, Sep 19, 2005
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  3. Freedom55

    Skip M Guest

    "David J Taylor"
    But that's not "more control" that's only allowing the same level of
    Skip M, Sep 19, 2005
  4. Freedom55

    Skip M Guest

    Looking at the LCD and living by the histogram are two different things.
    And even if they weren't, that has nothing to do with the dynamic range of
    digital. I check my LCD pretty constantly when shooting a wedding
    reception, since lighting conditions are constantly changing, but that's not
    to check the histogram. I've probably used that feature twice in the time
    I've been shooting digital, aside from the times I played with it to learn
    how to use it...
    Skip M, Sep 19, 2005
  5. Freedom55

    Bryan Olson Guest

    That's kind of sad. Limitations have changed; tools have
    changed; photographers, the smart ones at least, have changed.

    Histogram display is a winner.
    Bryan Olson, Sep 19, 2005
  6. No, it's not, but the point had been made that P&S provided less control
    than DSLR. As you say, it's now the same level.

    David J Taylor, Sep 19, 2005
  7. Freedom55

    Bryan Olson Guest

    I think you have a point, but I'm going to ignore it.

    Just speaking for myself, I like that first image, in which "the
    ducks and trees are pretty much silhouettes against a blown-out
    sky". It might be a little stronger if the lead duck's head were
    silhouetted against the sky, rather than coinciding with a tree.
    Since the image is art, and not really news, nor science, nor
    history, you could change that without ethical questions.
    Bryan Olson, Sep 19, 2005
  8. Freedom55

    Chris Brown Guest

    Pre-exposure histogram is no substitute for a spot meter - it shows you what
    the distribution of the intensity in the frame is, but it doesn't give you
    any information as to which parts of the frame are at which intensity. The
    best you can hope for is that you'll get to see which parts of the frame are
    overexposed, but what I care about is knowing if my subject is properly
    exposed - I really don't care if the specular highlights are 1, 2, 3 or 4
    stops above it.
    Chris Brown, Sep 19, 2005
  9. Freedom55

    l e o Guest

    Actually I did the experiment a few months ago (for David & Alfred's
    sake) using Sony V1 vs Canon 20D with 17-40/4 lens. I could go down to
    1/15 secs in both cases with more than acceptable sharpness. I checked
    the image in 100%. I took several pictures so it's not just by chance.
    However, I had to really pay attention to it. I have to stress that BOTH
    P&S V1 and mirror slapping 20D produce similarly sharp (or unsharp)
    pictures. I also got sharp pictures using 70-200/4 @ 200mm (= 320mm)
    using 1/80 sec. I don't buy the shutter shudder arguement, because my
    hands can move a lot even when not holding anything. The way you brace
    yourself when pressing the shutter is the key.
    l e o, Sep 19, 2005
  10. Freedom55

    l e o Guest

    Those manual controls on small sensor P&S are really pointless, with the
    exception of long exposure. The ISO and aperture settings are too
    limited to be effective. The camera has to struggle just to get the
    shutter speed high enough to take decent pictures.
    l e o, Sep 19, 2005
  11. Freedom55

    Chris Brown Guest

    I agree - sadly the ducks were reluctant to restage the fly-by. ;-)
    Perhaps I'll give it a go sometime - just move the duck up and to the left
    slightly, and then clone in the missing bit of tree.
    Chris Brown, Sep 19, 2005
  12. l e o wrote:
    You have a good point that the range of adjustment of aperture tends to be
    limited - perhaps from f/2.8 to f/8 - because of diffraction effects at
    the smaller aperture end. Nevertheless, it's helpful to be able to set
    the widest maximum aperture to minimise depth of field, so I would not
    call the adjustment pointless.

    Could you elaborate on your shutter speed argument - I don't know if you
    mean that because the cameras work best at lowers ISO ratings you need a
    longer shutter opening time. For most of the pictures I take, exposing at
    1/100s to 1/10s is not an issue.

    David J Taylor, Sep 19, 2005
  13. Freedom55

    Bill Funk Guest

    "Higher end"??
    My C3030Z had full manual mode.
    My A75 has full manual mode.
    It doesn't get more manual than that, and they are a long way from
    "higher end" cameras.
    Bill Funk, Sep 19, 2005
  14. In almost 40 years of doing photography, I have learned how to apply
    it's principles. I don't need to look at a graph to tell me that my the
    highlights are too hot or the shadows too dark. I know that before
    pressing the button.
    Randall Ainsworth, Sep 19, 2005
  15. Well, I'm sure that there are many cheaper cameras that do not have such
    controls, and to the owners of such cameras yours may appear exotic and


    David J Taylor, Sep 19, 2005
  16. Freedom55

    Alfred Molon Guest

    Alfred Molon, Sep 19, 2005
  17. Freedom55

    Alfred Molon Guest

    The Olympus 8080 shows you which areas are overexposed or underexposed.
    You don't have to "hope for this" - you get this information.
    For that use a live histogram and will be able to check how the exposure
    Alfred Molon, Sep 19, 2005
  18. Freedom55

    Alfred Molon Guest

    To a certain extent you are right. Most of the time my camera is in P
    mode, and I rarely use the aperture priority or shutter priority modes
    (everything is in focus even at the widest aperture setting). Most of
    the time I also use the lowest ISO settings.

    But for panorama photography it is essential to be able to lock the
    exposure between the shots of the sequence. AF lock is also very helpful
    in certain situations. It is also helpful to have a flash hotshoe
    (available on the higher end compacts) and to be able to control the
    flash power. For good outdoor shots polariser filters are essential -
    not all compact cameras allow you to add a filter.
    Alfred Molon, Sep 19, 2005
  19. Freedom55

    Alfred Molon Guest
    Alfred Molon, Sep 19, 2005
  20. Freedom55

    Chris Brown Guest

    As I said, that's about the best you can hope for. That's not very useful
    though - I know my specular highlights are going to blow, and I know my deep
    shadow is going to clip, and what's more, I don't care. The information is
    useless to me.
    But the histogram doesn't give me any information about the exposure of my
    subject. It just tells me what the distribution of the frequencies in the
    frame is. There's no way of relating that to correct exposure of the

    Indeed, the histogram may actually be counter-productive, if you use it to
    peg your highlights at the top end of the exposure range, without blowing
    them, as this can result in underexposure of your subject.
    Chris Brown, Sep 19, 2005
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