Re: Peterson's Death Sentence

Discussion in 'Linux Networking' started by Aunty Kreist, Jan 20, 2005.

  1. Aunty Kreist

    Aunty Kreist Guest

    And what gives a religious zealot like yourself the right to speak for
    anyone else? Your opinion is your own, not everyone else's as well.


    Perhaps Peterson's momma should have aborted him, no?

    I am.

    It's all just my opinion, and if you want
    Niiice. Nothing like a little fundamentalism in the morning. Did you read
    your buy-bull today?


    Key word....MIGHT. An embryo is a parasitic blob of tissue and cells. It
    does not think. It does not feel. It is not aware. It is the equivalent of a
    tapeworm. At that stage, I can hardly afford it the same rights as a human
    being....because it isn't one.


    Your reasoning is stupid. You can't give any eveidence why you feel that
    your opinion should be forced on everyone else. Think for yourself, but
    don't ever think that you can decide the opinions of others.

    You seem to be bitter by insinuating that your creators were not very good
    parents.

    Oh, no Johnny boi. I intend to point out your bullshit as I see fit.



    Seems what "I've written so far" has gotten you in such an angry tizzy that
    you are now spamming this newsgroup with your lame trolling attempts.

    Why don't you go into another fundie rant about God like you did here
    yesterday? That was rather amusing.


     
    Aunty Kreist, Jan 20, 2005
    #41
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  2. Assuming that they are mentally sound and not lying, in principle yes,
    in practise no, because of this doubt factor.

    To repeat, my *only* moral objection is that it is unacceptable to kill
    any innocent person, as life is truly unique, and can never be replaced.
    In the real world, for me morally, the risk is always unacceptable to
    execute killers.

    Again, I have no moral qualms against killing unjust killers. The reason
    is *because* I place life as paramount. Its only the practicalities that
    force my objection to the death penalty.
    In your misinformed opinion.
    Nope. If is has never become conscious, it has no feelings to care
    about. Things without feelings don't matter. Its that simple.

    How can one possibly give empathy to something that can't and has never
    felt? It makes no ratonal sense. Its daft.

    Think about it some more.
    As I said, "for its own sake". That's why I used the phrase. Sure, we
    worry about global warming and all that, but its for our sake, not the
    trees.


    Kevin Aylward

    http://www.anasoft.co.uk
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
     
    Kevin Aylward, Jan 20, 2005
    #42
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  3. Absolutely it is. That's *all* that matters. Its what *determines*
    whether "life" should be respected for its *own* sake. For example, a
    carrot may be considered "life", but to respect it for itself is daft.

    I agree definition on consciousness is difficult, but what ever it is,
    that's the axiom I use.
    Non conscious goals, in this context, are irrelevant by my book.

    Explain why a carrot, with is "alive", should be respected. Until you
    can do this, you don't have an argument to respect a similar status
    "life".
    Yep you can. Its not a line, there is a *region* where we can say
    absolutely that it is not conscious from before one line and conscious
    from another line after it. Only the region in-between the time is there
    uncertainty. I gave a conservative figure of two months. The figure I
    got this from was Carl Sagan noting that it is at least 3 months before
    there is enough neural connections to form a brain as we know it.

    So, drawing the line at say, 2 months, means that we just let some non
    conscious blobs of chemicals be accorded the status of conscious blobs.
    So what. The error is on the side of the pro-lifers. I can live with
    that:)
    Nope. Sure its alive, but its just as alive as a carrot.

    The concept of using "alive" as the decider is fundamentally flawed, and
    missed by most. What truly matters is whether or not the object has ever
    been conscious.

    To repeat:

    "Consciousness should be the deciding issue on moral issues"

    IMO!

    You must have some religious bent.

    There is simply no good reason, imo, that an arbitrary definition of
    "life" be used for such a decision.

    If you were never conscious, you would never have known anything.
    Consciousness is key, not life.

    So is a carrot.
    Its this simple. Morals only depend on consciousness. No consciousness
    no morals.

    Kevin Aylward

    http://www.anasoft.co.uk
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
     
    Kevin Aylward, Jan 20, 2005
    #43
  4. Aunty Kreist

    uvcceet Guest


    So.... ipso facto....., all Liberals are unconscious?
     
    uvcceet, Jan 20, 2005
    #44
  5. But it still makes little real sense. "Rights" can really only make
    logical sense when referred to a consciousness. This argument is just a
    legal definition one. There is still no logic as to why the Rights, only
    a, well its just what we do.

    The real issue is that the legal position is fundamentally based on god
    ideas. That is, there is some sort of soul to make a foetus, despite the
    staggering amount of evidence in support of the fact that the mind
    (consciousness) is the sole result of the physical brain.

    Its all academic anyway, we are all going to cease to exist. So, shag as
    many birds as you can before you go.

    Kevin Aylward

    http://www.anasoft.co.uk
    SuperSpice, a very affordable Mixed-Mode
    Windows Simulator with Schematic Capture,
    Waveform Display, FFT's and Filter Design.
     
    Kevin Aylward, Jan 20, 2005
    #45
  6. Aunty Kreist

    DeathWish Guest

    Heh.
     
    DeathWish, Jan 20, 2005
    #46
  7. Aunty Kreist

    John Fields Guest

    ---
    You're _way_ off the mark on the zealot thing, and I don't see where
    you got the part about me speaking for someone else, but you're right
    about my opinion, and what I did earlier was state it. And I'll
    continue to, thank you very much, and If I see something I don't like
    I'll damn sure be critical about it, same as you're doing right now.
    ---

    ---
    That was her choice to make, and she chose not to. Perhaps if she'd
    taken a little better care of him, though, things might have been
    different. And perhaps not. The reality is "shit happens".
    ---
    ---
    She didn't?
    ---

    ---
    Nope, and I don't buy-bullshit either, so get your facts straight
    before you start assuming you know what you're talking about.
    ---
    ---
    It's alive and it's the precursor to a human being, but if you want to
    dehumanize it and treat it like a tapeworm, then do it. That's one of
    the differences between us it seems; I happen to believe that life is
    precious and to snuff it out for convenience is wrong, while you seem
    to think that it's just a fine and dandy thing to do.
    ---
     
    John Fields, Jan 20, 2005
    #47
  8. I read in sci.electronics.design that wrote (in
    Or unconscionable? (;-)
     
    John Woodgate, Jan 20, 2005
    #48
  9. John Fields - Piss off and annoy other people with your Christian
    right-wing claptrap. I always find it amusing how the same bunch of people
    can get so worked up about such a technical issue yet there are real people
    dying all the time in the world from hunger and disease - if you didn't have
    your heads so far up your own arseholes you might have noticed this.

    Philip
     
    Electric dabbler, Jan 20, 2005
    #49
  10. Aunty Kreist

    John Fields Guest

     
    John Fields, Jan 20, 2005
    #50
  11. Aunty Kreist

    uvcceet Guest


    If you are going to cease to exist, why don't you just go now? Its not as
    if you will be laying around for eternity wishing you were still alive and
    regretting killing yourself. People who say they want to live and enjoy
    are not realizing that if you are going to cease to exist, you are wasting
    your time here.
     
    uvcceet, Jan 20, 2005
    #51
  12. Aunty Kreist

    uvcceet Guest

    In <YvUHd.215201$>, on 01/20/05
    at 08:01 PM, Jose Maria Lopez Hernandez <> said:



    We don't give a crap what you think of our country. We don't need you, but
    history has shown that you need us.
     
    uvcceet, Jan 20, 2005
    #52
  13. Aunty Kreist

    John Fields Guest

     
    John Fields, Jan 20, 2005
    #53
  14. I read in sci.electronics.design that wrote (in
    I don't see that. You could be wasting your time here if there were an
    idyllic after-life. If there is only oblivion, now is the time to enjoy
    what you can.
     
    John Woodgate, Jan 20, 2005
    #54
  15. Aunty Kreist

    John Fields Guest

    ---
    I disagree. A carrot, using its life to grow and make itself food for
    us should be respected. Treasured, actually. It even provides some of
    the very air we breathe. Not in the same way one sentient human would
    respect another, of course, but in its own way.
    ---
    ---
    But quite relevant in mine. Without that unconscious goal, we would
    not be sitting here having this discussion.
    ---
    ---
    See earlier explanation.
    ---

    ---
    Yes, and that phrase, "as we know it", is what enables the
    dehumanization of a fetus and the cheapening of life.
    ---
    ---
    So if it's two months old it's OK to kill it, but if it's three months
    old It's not? As John Woodgate said, this is a question of drawing
    lines, and mine is drawn with affording the fetus protection from the
    instant of conception. Period.
    ---
    ---
    That's your _opinion_, Kevin, and no matter how you try to make it
    sound like fact, it remains an opinion.
    ---
    [/QUOTE]

    You must have some religious bent.[/QUOTE]

    ---
    I just believe that a life which I didn't give isn't mine to take.
    ---
    ---
    The definition isn't arbitrary, a life begins when the new strand of
    DNA is assembled.
    ---
    ---
    Consciousness is a _consequence_ of life.

    If you were never alive you could not have become conscious, so life
    is the precursor to consciousness; the key.
    ---
     
    John Fields, Jan 20, 2005
    #55
  16. I read in sci.electronics.design that John Fields <[email protected]
    How do you feel about intestinal bacteria? (;-)
     
    John Woodgate, Jan 20, 2005
    #56
  17. Aunty Kreist

    Terry Given Guest

    mmmm

    Cheers
    Terry
     
    Terry Given, Jan 20, 2005
    #57
  18. Aunty Kreist

    John Fields Guest

     
    John Fields, Jan 20, 2005
    #58
  19. Aunty Kreist

    uvcceet Guest


    So again.., we agree that liberals are dead......
     
    uvcceet, Jan 21, 2005
    #59
  20. Aunty Kreist

    Aunty Kreist Guest

    Just curious, John. Exactly how many crack babies have adopted? How about
    dumped babies? HIV? Any at all? Anything?


    You must have some religious bent.[/QUOTE]

    ---
    I just believe that a life which I didn't give isn't mine to take.
    ---
    ---
    The definition isn't arbitrary, a life begins when the new strand of
    DNA is assembled.
    ---
    ---
    Consciousness is a _consequence_ of life.

    If you were never alive you could not have become conscious, so life
    is the precursor to consciousness; the key.
    ---
    [/QUOTE]
     
    Aunty Kreist, Jan 21, 2005
    #60
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