Raw photo software

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by Mayayana, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. Mayayana

    tony cooper Guest

    Yes, I agree with that. What I want to know is "How does one remove
    the white balance?". That white balance can be *removed* has been
    postulated, and I'm asking "How?".

    Floyd has skirted the subject with a voluminous "explanation" that
    states a default that can be changed, but conveniently skips over
    "removal".

    You have said "don't apply it" [sic] I assume what you mean is "Don't
    apply a *change*".

    Changing a default is not removing. It is simply re-setting. Not
    applying a new setting is not removing. It is simply allowing the
    default to remain in force. What's difficult to understand about
    this?

    I'm fully aware that the white balance can be changed. I do it all
    the time. I'm also fully aware that the image out-of-camera has the
    default setting.
     
    tony cooper, Aug 18, 2012
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  2. Mayayana

    tony cooper Guest

    If not, you are so delusional that you think you have explained how
    white balance can be removed when you have not.
    Evidently.

    I am not at all embarrassed that a non-answer is too much for me to
    take as an answer no matter how much that non-answer is buried in
    fustian camouflage.

    To use another analogy, you cannot conceal that you are out-on-a-limb
    by covering yourself with leaves.
     
    tony cooper, Aug 18, 2012
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  3. Mayayana

    Guest Guest

    by not applying the transform.

    in aperture, you can click the little checkbox next to an adjustment
    and it will be applied or not applied. in this screen shot, only a
    level adjustment is done:
    <http://documentation.apple.com/en/aperture/usermanual/Art/S00/S0021_Def
    aultIns.png>

    camera raw doesn't expose that in the user interface but internally it
    can skip something if it doesn't need to recalculate it.
    if you want to nitpick (and i'm sure you do), yes, there's a default
    white balance that gets applied. it's a baseline that is going to
    happen no matter what adjustments you make.

    the point is that a raw converter can optimize what it needs to do. if
    all you do is change the sharpening, then there is no need to
    recalculate the white balance.
     
    Guest, Aug 18, 2012
  4. Mayayana

    otter Guest

    And in a non-destructive work flow, which I think is the crux of the
    issue.
     
    otter, Aug 18, 2012
  5. Mayayana

    tony cooper Guest

    So the "nitpick" has forced you out to admit that white balance is not
    removed.
    No, the *point* is that the white balance is not removed.

    OK, now that you have finally come clean and agreed that the white
    balance is not removed, and the default white balance remains, let's
    see if we can get Floyd to talk sense.

    That stuff about the RAW converter optimizing is irrelative to the
    *point*.

    BTW..."recalculate" is another way of describing "change", not
    "removal".
     
    tony cooper, Aug 18, 2012
  6. Mayayana

    Guest Guest

    sometimes it is. if the white balance that has already been calculated
    is still valid then there's no need to recalculate it again, so it's
    removed from the list of transforms done and *not* done a second time.

    on the other hand, if you make an adjustment that does affect white
    balance, then what's cached is invalid and the white balance will need
    to be recalculated. in that case, it's not removed.
    good luck on that.
    it's *very* relevant. it does not do calculations it doesn't need to
    do, and skips them by removing them from the list.
    and when the recalculation is skipped, then that calculation is
    removed. very simple.
     
    Guest, Aug 18, 2012
  7. Mayayana

    Guest Guest

    it sure is.
     
    Guest, Aug 18, 2012
  8. Mayayana

    PeterN Guest

    Thank you for clarifying. Following your logic, if I make no change to
    the information contained in an image, since the information is not
    changed, it is removed and I get a blank image.
    I finally understand.
     
    PeterN, Aug 18, 2012
  9. Mayayana

    tony cooper Guest

    So, in your mind, if something that has already been calculated, and
    does not need to be recalculated, then that means that it is
    "removed".

    I'd like to do that with my credit card statement. If I don't
    recalculate the balance, the balance is removed.

    Don't bullshit me with "removed from the list of transforms (that need
    to be) done (again)." That would mean that anything that needs not to
    be done a second time is removed.
    No, no, no. No more bullshit about "removing them from the list".
    "Removed" means "removed", not conditionally removed as in no longer
    on a list.
    Good Lord! You think "removed" means "not done" or "not necessary to
    do again".

    Removed = taken away, gone, now absent, not here anymore, etc.
     
    tony cooper, Aug 18, 2012
  10. Mayayana

    tony cooper Guest

    I am fascinated by this logic. It like watching a snake devour itself
    by eating its own tail.

    By your reckoning, if I open a RAW file and make no changes at all, I
    have removed white balance, tint, exposure, recovery, fill light,
    blacks, brightness, contrast, clarity, vibrance, and saturation.

    What do I have left?
     
    tony cooper, Aug 18, 2012
  11. Mayayana

    tony cooper Guest

    That skit was running through my mind. Also, the cheese shop skit
    where all of the cheeses had been removed.
     
    tony cooper, Aug 19, 2012
  12. Mayayana

    tony cooper Guest

    Come on, Alan. All that's understood.
    I challenge "removed". He's weaseling and now saying "removed from
    the list", but white balance is not removed.

    You came late to the thread and haven't seen the absurd claims.
    You've just seen the hasty cover-up.
     
    tony cooper, Aug 19, 2012
  13. Mayayana

    Guest Guest

    it doesn't work that way and that's not what i said.
    you clearly do not.
     
    Guest, Aug 19, 2012
  14. Mayayana

    Guest Guest

    not what i said.
    an incredible lack of understanding, something i doubt will ever change.
     
    Guest, Aug 19, 2012
  15. Mayayana

    Guest Guest

    there's no weaseling nor is there any change in what i'm saying. you
    don't understand how it works.
    there's no cover-up either, only your lack of understanding. you're in
    well over your head.
     
    Guest, Aug 19, 2012
  16. Mayayana

    Guest Guest

    yes, when the file is reopened, everything needs to be redone, but
    that's not the issue.

    floyd said everything needs to be redone with even the slightest change
    in *any* adjustment, while the file is open. that's false. it depends
    what was changed.
     
    Guest, Aug 19, 2012
  17. Mayayana

    PeterN Guest

    So you snip all relevant material, including detail.
    I simply followed what you said to its logical conclusion.
     
    PeterN, Aug 19, 2012
  18. Mayayana

    Guest Guest

    because that's all it has to work with.
     
    Guest, Aug 20, 2012
  19.  
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Aug 26, 2012
  20. Easy answer: just let the time run backwards to the point
    where the photons hit the sensor.

    -Wolfgang
     
    Wolfgang Weisselberg, Aug 26, 2012
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