Rant: USB, ADSL and BitTorrents.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005.

  1. ~misfit~

    Chris Hope Guest

    Do you seriously think the copyright holders would agree?
    Chris Hope, Oct 28, 2005
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  2. ~misfit~

    Craig Shore Guest

    My download runs heaps quicker than my upload. I'm on UBS 2mb/128k with ihug.
    I've got the upload limited to 10k/sec to stop it getting saturated.

    Here's an example of it downloading at 200k/sec 5 mins ago.

    I just started them all did a screen cap, then killed them all so there's not
    much happening on the upload.
    Craig Shore, Oct 28, 2005
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  3. ~misfit~

    A Guest

    Ha - you've been snapped! In a different reply you mention downloading
    the second series of House. I'm sure that hasn't been on commercial tv
    in NZ yet so how could you have watched the ads :)

    As for me - I'm only downloading programs which contain the full
    advertisements so the advertisers get the full benefit of my attention
    (even though I can't buy most of the stuff advertised).
    A, Oct 28, 2005
  4. ~misfit~

    Philip Guest

    Boringly, the act of downloading may be illegal all by itself.
    Regardless of commercial content, which BTW is also copyrighted, you are
    acquiring without licence the copyrighted product of some studio or other.

    They won't give you a licence, or even sell you one, and I think they
    are living in the past with that attitude.

    But do not kid yourself: downloading tv programmes is almost always a
    breach of copyright, and they could, if they felt like it, come after you.

    Copyright law is fairly simple: if you don't own it or have a licence
    for it, you are not allowed to copy it. Downloading is the same as
    copying for this purpose.

    Even if you saw it on commercial tv (do we have another kind of tv
    here?) your licence was exhausted by the end of the transmision.

    You think it sucks. I think it mostly sucks, but it's the law.

    Philip, Oct 28, 2005
  5. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    My changeover was relatively painless. I hope yours is too. :)
    ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005
  6. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    I have it running now. 23.7 up, 14.8 down. That's about par for the course
    so far.
    Yeah. However, I like to keep up with the odd current one as well. (Just
    downloading 'House' series 2 as it screens in the US). I find that about the
    only place outside of paid binary newsgroups for current stuff is
    bittorrent. The shows are usually available within 24 hours of screening.
    ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005
  7. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Do you seriously think I care?

    I have my viewpoint, they have theirs. They can take me to court to sort it
    out if they want. It's not like I'm selling the shows, just watching them
    ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005
  8. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Must be this Orcon layer 7 packet sniffing or whatever then. At the moment
    upload 28, down 7.
    ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005
  9. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Ummm, give me a minute, I'll think of something...... Ok, got it! The first
    series was so good I watched it twice. (I videotape everything, I hate being
    told when I have to watch things). In fact, some episodes I watched three
    times. *And* I'm on the A.C. Nielsen peoplemeter team so it will show in the
    statistics. :)

    Good save?
    ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005
  10. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Philip wrote:

    So it's illegal to videotape a TV programme? What's with this whole G-Code
    thing then? Surely they should all be clapped in irons?
    Doesn't make it right.
    ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005
  11. ~misfit~

    David Guest

    Just for good measure, here's a screeny of my fav, DC++
    Note there are some NZ only hubs for it too, i've blacked out the names
    to protect them though :D
    BTW its been going like that last 15 hours or so (I'm already over my
    10gig cap so can't stop now hehe) I'm not limiting the upload or
    anything, normally it is higher than that though, I might open another slot.
    David, Oct 28, 2005
  12. ~misfit~

    -=rjh=- Guest

    I've seen absolutely no evidence to support that. I'm with Orcon, and
    I'm getting full speed downloads - enough to saturate my connection -
    most of the time, and last month my data usage was 36+GB with no
    evidence that Orcon are doing anything to reduce performance.

    Orcon have said that they no longer need to penalise heavy downloaders
    (though I doubt if I ever qualified as one), as their user base has
    grown to the stage where they have an adequate data allocation. IIRC
    they also say they don't shape p2p traffic, and my experience would show
    that is correct, at least for BT. What Telecom are doing is anyone's
    guess, it would be interesting to know what is really going on.

    I'm not using the default BT ports, however. That may be significant.

    Obviously, YMDV.

    And also - since this is also about UBS - Orcon's network performance
    has improved significantly over the year (well - it had to, didn't it?);
    certainly, less people are bitching about it. I think Orcon deserve some
    credit as things have to an extent turned out the way Seeby predicted

    For example, I've been unable to record streams off di.fm from early
    this year, but now I'm getting very good results although ping times are
    still far higher than I'd expect. For a while back there, I couldn't
    even *listen* to di.fm without dropouts.

    I think that given what they had to work with, Orcon have done a pretty
    good job. A lot of factors are outside their control.

    So UBS is not all bad, although I can see why the 128Kb/s upload regime
    is a complete joke. What were the CC thinking? Did they all get iPods
    for Christmas?
    -=rjh=-, Oct 29, 2005
  13. ~misfit~

    Mark C Guest

    Yes, in NZ it currently is illegal to video a TV program, *IF* you
    "retain it any longer than is necesary to enable the recording to be
    viewed or listened to at a more convenient time."

    You can time-shift it and watch it later, but can't keep that copy

    (Section 84 of Copyright act 1994)

    Mark C, Oct 29, 2005
  14. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Damn!! Looks like I'm going back to jail then. :-(
    ~misfit~, Oct 29, 2005
  15. ~misfit~

    steve Guest

    They would be no more interested in my view than I am in theirs.
    steve, Oct 29, 2005
  16. ~misfit~

    steve Guest

    You get the latest shows on gnutella. Typically HDTV / 16:9 version of the
    most popular series - and available within hours of broadcast in the US.

    I haven't found any "House" on gnutella so far, but I have the first 5
    episodes of Season 3 of NCIS....and TV3 is still screening Season 2 here.

    For many years, I used to get my family in Canada to send me videotapes of
    shows I was interested in - 4 episodes to a tape (ads not included).

    Now they don't have to go to the trouble.
    steve, Oct 29, 2005
  17. ~misfit~

    Bling Bling Guest


    I use BitTorrent over dialup. I get downloads and uploads of 5/3 kB/s -
    and one of the Torrents that I'm downloading is over 40gB in size.

    You're complaining over nothing!

    But while you're asking, the 128kb/s limit, along with non-static ip
    numbers, was initially imposed by Telecom in order to prevent people from
    running servers.

    Bling Bling
    Bling Bling, Oct 29, 2005
  18. ~misfit~

    steve Guest

    I should add to my other response:

    I don't watch much TV at all....largely due to ads and the crap quality of
    most programs.

    If it was impossible to download these shows and watch them when convenient
    to me 9and then delete them).....I likely wouldn't watch them at all.

    It's the same old thing....they think they;re loosing money and ignoring the
    fact I don't need their product badly enough to 'use' it in the way THEY
    intend me to.

    Have they lost anything? Not in the real world. I watch a show I likely
    wouldn't have watched anyway because I'm just not THERE at 8:30PM on a
    Friday (or whenever)....and I wipe it after after seeing it.

    Is it illegal?

    Speeding is illegal....yet the National Party claims to want to stop
    enforcing those laws "and chase real criminals"....despite being strong on
    "law and order" and road deaths far and away exceeding death by vilent

    The world is full of such hypocrisy. Is it right? No.

    But there it is anyway.
    steve, Oct 29, 2005
  19. ~misfit~

    Bling Bling Guest

    Even tho' Telecon (et al.) don't like people using their network to move
    data about, Telecom appears to have introduced a cache for p2p traffic.

    Is this the case?

    Bling Bling
    Bling Bling, Oct 29, 2005
  20. ~misfit~

    Philip Guest

    I gree. But where is the politician willing to reofrm our copyright laws?

    We need laws that say:

    1.Fair use:

    1.1. Once you've bought it once you are free to do whatever you have to
    do the view/listen to it on a different medium. So you must be free to
    copy your CDs to MP3 for the car player or your iPod or whatever.
    Currently illegal in NZ

    1.2. You must be free to make a back-up copy of a valued CD or DVD.
    Currently illegal in NZ

    1.3. In pursuit of your rights under #1 and #2, you must be free to
    circumvent any copy locks placed on a product you have bought.
    Currently illegal in Australia & the US (the DMCA). Not, as far as I
    know, illegal in NZ, tho a supine goverment may well spring such a law
    upon us at any moment.

    1.4 You aren't free to sell or give away clones of copyright material
    without a licence, no matter how you got hold of the originals. This is
    the whole heart of copyrights.

    2. Free trade in a free market.

    2.1 It should be illegal to apply geographical restrictions to the use
    of any audio-visual product. You must be free to buy your aoftware in
    any legal market, to take it anwhere you like and play it on any machine
    xou can persuade to show it to you.

    3. Sensible limits

    3.1 Copyright expires 50 years after the first publication of the work.
    This deals with the growing tendency for US and British corporations to
    lobby a passive Congress to extend copyrights indefinitely. It's a bad
    idea. Bono should have known better. And EMI should be ashamed of itself.

    4. Jurisdiction

    4.1 Breach of copyright is a civil, not a criminal matter. In cases
    where organised crime is involved in large-scal piracy, comnspiracy
    charges are appropriate. The alternative is the crazy situation in the
    US, the UK, Germany and other countries where the major labels and movie
    companies fire off swarms of "John Doe" (unknown defendant) writs to
    intimidate 12 year old kids and grandmothers to "settle (for about NZ$10
    000) or face criminal prosecution".

    It's a bigger issue than it looks, and I fear that it's already too late.

    So don't be surprised when you get back from the next US holiday with a
    DVD or two (assuming you haven't being jailed for the heinous crime of
    having your video camera with you when you went into a movie theater)put
    the disk in your new Media Centre PC and find that it's called home to
    Hollywood and they tell you you aren't allowd to watch it. That's
    already in the software...

    And you don't want to hear what they're planning for high definition tv.

    Philip, Oct 29, 2005
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