Rant: USB, ADSL and BitTorrents.

Discussion in 'NZ Computing' started by ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005.

  1. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Why, oh why are we limited to 128kb/s upstream speeds in NZ? Can anyone tell
    me?

    I've been downloading some old TV programmes on BitTorrent (Blackadder and
    Fawlty Towers to be precise) and I have an Orcon UBS 2MB connection.*

    However, BitTorrent working the way it does, I can only download as much as
    I upload. As you can imagine, this is very frustrating, downloads running at
    around 16kb/s. Also, when running BitTorrent, I find virtually everything
    else is unusable (Web, Usenet, Gaming....) even though I'm only using a tiny
    fraction of my download speed, as the uplink is saturated.

    Not happy. I may as well have the old Jetstart 128kb/s connection for my
    purposes. I actually get the benefit of the 2MB downstream very rarely.
    --
    ~misfit~

    * I upgraded to one of the new Orcon plans where you pay for data in 10GB
    chunks so now feel that I have the right to download as much as I want,
    whenever I want. I carefully considered it before cancelling my legacy
    unlimited connection as they don't offer them anymore. Hence the recent
    install of Azureus. I'm paying for data transmission now after all. I didn't
    feel the same way on the 256k unlimited plan I was on before and never went
    over 3GB/month between the two of us using it.

    Also, to anyone who feels I'm infringing copyright on the TV programmes; I
    sat through watching them on NZ TV, adverts and all, years ago. Therefore
    I've 'paid' for the right to view them. I consider it to be no different to
    having video taped them years ago and still having the video tapes. That's
    not illegal right?
     
    ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005
    #1
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  2. ~misfit~

    Chris Hope Guest

    Because Telecom is afraid we might start using our connections to host
    stuff like webservers and mail servers? Because they're bastards?
    Hmm, wouldn't that be a breach of copyright downloading those? ;)
    I think this is part of the answer to your question. Less p2p ability
    upstream means less p2p ability downstream and therefore less data
    transfer overall. Telecom seems to like us using as little data as
    possible.
    Which of course means you need to lower the upload to something like
    14kb/s (or lower) to be able to do anything else at all, which in turn
    means you can download even slower.
     
    Chris Hope, Oct 28, 2005
    #2
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  3. ~misfit~

    Chris Hope Guest

    Chris Hope wrote:

    [snip]
    Well this part of my argument is a little flawed as you're still going
    to upload and download the same amount of stuff, just slower. However I
    still think they'd rather it take long to a) discourage people from
    doing it in the first place and b) less stuff being downloaded in such
    a short amount of time.

    [snip]
     
    Chris Hope, Oct 28, 2005
    #3
  4. I think bittorrent is a bit like gnutella, it gobbles so much overhead
    that it paralyses the rest of your connection. Bit like a ddos attack in
    nature, really :)

    See if you can find what you want on kceasy. With the fasttrack plugin
    (which can still be found with a bit of googling) that thing connects to
    4 different networks simultaneously, and you can pick and chose what you
    want to download. If you keep your shared directory nice and tidy it
    hardly seems to detract from the adsl performance (and I only have
    1Mbit) and I get up to 30kB/s downloads at times. Always depends on the
    other guy's pipe, of course.
    The gnutella tidal wave doesn't seem to make it through my firewall <g>
    (3com switch/router/adsl modem).

    When I find the time, I try to download some of the old stuff I have on
    vinyl from Soulseek. Suze's banished my turntable and record collection
    from the living room (doesn't like looking at'em). So I want to burn
    some mp3 disks and listen to them in the workshop ...

    Klite Resurrection is a fasttrack client that even allows you to disable
    sharing. It gets very good speeds and does NOT interfere with the
    connection much at all.

    -P.
     
    Peter Huebner, Oct 28, 2005
    #4
  5. ~misfit~

    David Guest



    I'd stay well away from fasttrack, gnutella is alright for shit quality
    MP3, I would recommend Shareaza (integrates ed2k, G1 and G2), which if
    you tell it your connection speed, will set up limits automatically for
    optimum performance. I get between 70 and 220kB/s for most files.
     
    David, Oct 28, 2005
    #5
  6. ~misfit~

    Mark Remfrey Guest


    You may be just suffering from a lack of decent seeders for the apparent
    slow download speed. I have ADSL, and with a well seeded torrent (I use
    Bittorent too), I'll achieve 20 kilobytes/s up, and regularly hit well over
    90 to 100 kilobytes/s down. Also if it's a new torrent, and there isn't many
    seeders, it will stay slow if the percentage complete where you are sourcing
    it from is the same as yours. Basically you cannot get it any faster from
    them, than they are getting it from someone else.

    The popularity of the torrent plays a big part, if it's not popular, there
    won't be many seeders.

    As for performance, if I'm gaming I'll throttle Bittorent down to 4
    kilobytes/s upload rate without suffering when I play Ghost Recon online at
    U.S servers.

    --


    Regards,
    Mark Remfrey

    "Two wrongs don't make a right.... it usually takes three or more!"
     
    Mark Remfrey, Oct 28, 2005
    #6
  7. Interesting. I had Shareaza a year or two ago, and it didn't work well
    for me *at all* with my satellite connection. May give it another go
    with adsl now ... (I never used to be able to connect to the
    emule/edonkey network either, too much lag presumably - so this could be
    an interesting new experience).

    -Peter
     
    Peter Huebner, Oct 28, 2005
    #7
  8. ~misfit~

    David Guest

    edonkey servers check that you are connectable, if you aren't, many will
    disconnect you immediately, especially if they are almost full. Being
    connectable (and able to recieve UDP) is particularly important for
    decentralised networks too.
     
    David, Oct 28, 2005
    #8
  9. ~misfit~

    Gordon Guest

    Lack of competition. BTW Woosh offers higher upstream rates than 128.

    Nope, wrong. It rewards those who upload as much as they download. On any
    one torrent you are allowed to get you file as fast as you can but then
    you *need* to keep your uploading going.

    Try getting the up to down ratio to be at least one.

    BitTorrent goes after your Up bandwidth like telecom after profit. It will
    saturate it and make no apologies for doing so, for your upload is
    someones download.

    However, one can control things. Azureus, the blue frog, not the crazy
    one, as a client can control what your PC is willing to do.

    Whant to do something else, tell the frog to stay put, not to jump all
    over the place. Tell her she can only have a part of your band width. This
    allows you to do other things, then when you have finished let the frog
    hop all over the place to bandwidth saturation.

    Now, can someone tell me why the word cap did not appear in the original
    post?
     
    Gordon, Oct 28, 2005
    #9
  10. ~misfit~

    Gordon Guest

    Bittorrent is about shifting data to and *from* ones machine.
     
    Gordon, Oct 28, 2005
    #10
  11. ~misfit~

    Chris Hope Guest

    I know this. Telecom (and other ISPs) would prefer we don't shift large
    amounts of data in a short amount of time using our internet
    connections.
     
    Chris Hope, Oct 28, 2005
    #11
  12. ~misfit~

    -=rjh=- Guest

    Not so; it isn't a 1:1 ratio. It is related, but on my 256Kb/s
    connection I regularly get 32KB/s downloads, well in excess of my
    128kb/s uploads (usually ~14kB/s).

    But you are right, you have a valid point. I have no idea what the CC
    were thinking when they thought 128kb/s was OK. I guess they are
    thinking the net is asymetrical, but in some ways, that is changing rapidly.

    As you can imagine, this is very frustrating, downloads running at
    I've limited my BT rates a little, just so the link is usable for other
    things, 256Kb/s is so slow, that a few extra hours for a download
    doesn't really make much difference. But it stuffs up any hope of
    listening to internet radio.
     
    -=rjh=-, Oct 28, 2005
    #12
  13. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    The latter I think.
    No. LOL, I paid for them once already by watching them on commercial TV. I
    watched many hours of advertisments spliced into the programmes. Can you
    believe such a barbaric practice is actually accepted as normal?
    So it would seem.
    Excatly. I just went to try playing my game but it's really laggy at this
    time of the night so I gave up and started Azureus instead. <g>
    And to think I'm being charged by the GB for this "service".
     
    ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005
    #13
  14. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest



    Hi Peter. I've just downloaded and installed kceasy and fasttrack 0.8.9.

    Thanks for the tip, I'll have a play. :)
    And why not? I have a policy of feeling free to download anything that I
    used to own on vinyl/CD. I used to flat and I have had litterally hundreds
    of albums destroyed over the years by party animals. I figure I've paid the
    royalties once already, the media I bought it on was too fragile so now I'm
    getting it in a different format. :)
    Cheers,
     
    ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005
    #14
  15. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Yes. However, some of the torrents I've downloaded have been *very* popular
    (House, series 2, only up to episode 3 in the US) and are still slower than
    the upload speed.
    Ok, thanks for that.
     
    ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005
    #15
  16. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Didn't work that way for me. Right from the get-go I've only downlaoded as
    much as I've uploaded. Except for the first 'packet' of course.
    It is I'd say. Each torrent varies of course, some are 0.5, some are 1.8. I
    can't find a total ratio listed anywhere.
    I know but if I throttle the upload the download drops accordingly.
    I find it easier to just stop and re-start it.
    Because I'm on an Orcon "Autosense" plan. I pay $X a month for 1GB, then a
    further $10 for each 10GB block after that. That's why I feel free to
    download so much now, I'm paying for what I download so am not "leeching"
    anyone else's bandwidth. On Orcon's website they say they've significantly
    increased their international bandwidth (as they should as they're charging
    for it by the GB now).
     
    ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005
    #16
  17. ~misfit~

    ~misfit~ Guest

    Maybe not an exact 1:1 ratio. However, maybe I'm just unlucky but I seem to
    be uploading more than I'm downloading. (I have DUMeter running).
    Yes.
     
    ~misfit~, Oct 28, 2005
    #17
  18. ~misfit~

    Chris Hope Guest

    ~misfit~ wrote:

    [snip]
    About to go on that plan myself on about Wed next week. Hopefully I
    don't have the same issues when I went from Xtra/Jetstream to
    Ihug/Bitstream and had no connection for about 2 or 3 days...
     
    Chris Hope, Oct 28, 2005
    #18
  19. ~misfit~

    steve Guest

    Telecom doesn't want you running servers at anything more than the barest
    minimum level of throughput.
    Yes.
    I've seen Bittorrent do much better than that (on Linux, anyway).
    Try gtk-gnutella / Bearshare / Limewire / <whatever>

    Those old TV shows are out there.
     
    steve, Oct 28, 2005
    #19
  20. ~misfit~

    steve Guest

    Good point.
     
    steve, Oct 28, 2005
    #20
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